President Carter's Plans to Meet with Hamas

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wow Amazon- for someone I thought I had read to be .........it seems odd to hear you ........

she's a mystery wrapped in a polycotton red enigma

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Have you examined how many UN security Resolutions they have either: violated, ignored, disregarded, or just had pimp daddy US veto?

You have to ask yourself WHO was it who dreamed up those anti-Isreali resolutions.. what was on THEIR agenda...

When I look at both sides it saddens me to see this conflict that has been going on longer than my already fairly long life.

On balance I would have to say that Israeli actions have been more in line with what I would call right based on how their neighbors have attacked them over and over and the Israelis have always managed to win.

I do know a bit of the history of the area as claimed by both sides in the conflict. Think about WHO the Palistinians and other arab countries allied themselves to in WWII

I will not paint them as lily white... but I do paint them with a brush of doing what is neccessary to survive and try to build their country based on the fact that it is their very ancient homeland... and the Palistinians will not even acknowldge the archaelogical evidence.. the Palistinians and their arab neighbors will not make peace. When the Hamas leader claims that they are only resisting an occupation what they really mean is IF the Israelis return to the 1967 borders THEY will CONSIDER talking.. uh yeah right...Personally I believe that Hamas and all the other groups will continue the war until Israel is wiped from the map.. as their handlers in Teheran and Damascus want.

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Israelis have always managed to win.

It is much easier when your opponents have homemade rockets and rocks while you have US supplied cluster bombs, DU weapons, tanks, rifles and tons of US $.

The Palestinians have for quite some time been refugees. you do understand how they became refugees? They have been deprived of food, fuel, water, etc. How would you feel and what exactly would you do if you had been born in that situation? Can you put yourself there mentally? Think you might feel a bit desperate?

I am sure if I am watching my family and friends die, mine or my neighbors house destroyed by bulldozers, seeing a 30foot high concrete wall separate me from olive groves that had been in my family for generations, watch my property and livelyhood be utterly destroyed- I would throw rocks too.

I suppose you would just be one of those that folks that gives the occupiers whatever information they want with the hopes they may throw you a few stale breadcrumbs?

Good thing Jefferson, Washington, and the rest of the founding fathers didn't think as you do!

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It is much easier when your opponents have homemade rockets and rocks while you have US supplied cluster bombs, DU weapons, tanks, rifles and tons of US $.

They CERTAINLY did not start out that way.

In the 60 years SINCE the inception of Israel.. the Palistinians have had plenty of chances to RECOGNIZE that Israel exists.. and to make peace. Instead they ally themselves with external countries who are on a jihad and want them purged from THEIR homeland.

Why do you believe the Israelis are responsible for the welfare of their enemies.. who are attacking them???

Hell I would not just bulldoze the houses of the bombers. I would blow the fucking thing to their idea of heaven with as many of their family there as well for raising them to be murderers.

They are the enemy that will not make peace.....let them die in the hell they have created for themselves. It is called WAR...

You dont like war... make peace.. its fairly simple.



Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel ... -- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977

The Prophet Muhammad said, "War is deception -al-Bukhari, al-Jami al Sahih

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You dont like war... make peace.. its fairly simple.

It is easy to define what 'Peace' is when you are the 800 lb gorilla.

Hamas has now offered to recognize Israel if they recognize their gains of the 1967 war, rather than the expanded borders they now enjoy. Does that register with you? Sound like peace?

[Amazon 7]

They said the would CONSIDER it... a step in the right direction.. but not plausible when the same leader... is still lobbing rockets into the land he wishes to take.

His idea of ending the occupation is fairly simple.. Israel as a country dissappears.

Palestine as an actual country... and not just some partition of The ottoman Empire.. or Southern Syria.. has never existed.

ITs a back door mechanism of Arab hegemony and just another islamic state that promises to treat the people of the book with dignity...why should they do that now in the twentieth century when for centuries they never have done it. There have been some rulers who did allow a live and let live.. but the last 200 years at least there has been almost none of that.

Answer this.. would you rather be an arab living in Israel ...... or a jew living in Palestine?

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Nevermind. Have you ever read the many statements by the original leaders of Israel, which plainly state the utter contempt for Arabs, not to mention their feelings for any non-Jews. This is the core of their religion! That doesn't sound like a live and let live type of mentality.

So you apparently feel that Israel is gracious by not 'wiping the Arabs off the face of the map' but yet rather keeping them packed in tight in refugee camps and starving them all for the actions of a few.

Do you believe since the KKK committed horrible crimes against black folks, that all whites should have been punished?

[jcd11235 0]

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You have to ask yourself WHO was it who dreamed up those anti-Isreali resolutions.. what was on THEIR agenda...

You realize that Israel has allies with veto power on the UNSC, right? That there even are UNSC resolutions against Israel is a testament to the severity of their actions and human rights abuses.

How many of these resolutions have Israel complied with?

Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon.

262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport.

267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories."

452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy.

471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention.

484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

487 (1981) Israel
Calls upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the safeguard of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency.

497 (1981) Israel
Demands that Israel rescind its decision to impose its domestic laws in the occupied Syrian Golan region.

573 (1985) Israel
Calls on Israel to pay compensation for human and material losses from its attack against Tunisia and to refrain from all such attacks or threats of attacks against other nations.

592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention."

607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations.

672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672.

681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

694 (1991) Israel
Reiterates that Israel "must refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported."

726 (1992) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention…to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention."

904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers."

1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian civilians to be ensured."

1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power.

1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities.

1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay."

1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp.

1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.

Source

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Got a list of attrocities done by the Arab states and Palistinians.... you knnow.. the people Israel is at war with??

Are homicide bombers allowed in the Geneva Conventions and the UN CHarter???

How about using YOUR civilian population to sheild your weapons launch site... production facilities... and military headquarters???

Its a dirty war... and all those resolutions.. pretty much are bogus bullshit.. they won the war.... they can take ALL the territory they want IF they want...

Or else you better rivise a whole bunch of world history...

OR does your idea of fair play ONLY work for those poor helpless Palestinians you love so much???

Most of your resolutions such as the entry in the the Jenin refugee camp and the destruction of civilian infrastructure..... is IDF going after the armed militias.. AGAIN hiding amoung cilvilians so people like you will wring your hands and go crazy frothing about the evils that the jews do.

[jcd11235 0]

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Why do you believe the Israelis are responsible for the welfare of their enemies.. who are attacking them???

The Fourth Geneva Convention comes to mind.

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Hell I would not just bulldoze the houses of the bombers. I would blow the fucking thing to their idea of heaven with as many of their family there as well for raising them to be murderers.

You realize that you're advocating war crimes, right?

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The Prophet Muhammad said, "War is deception -al-Bukhari, al-Jami al Sahih

Sun Tzu said the same thing long before he did. It is something all good generals understand.

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War is hell...if you attack me.. I am going to do whaqt ever I can to kill you and the people who support you...

That is not too hard to understand right??

The moral of the story.. be nice to me and I am nice to you... attack me and I will do anything I can to kill you.. last time I checked.. that is what war is about.

[jcd11235 0]

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Got a list of attrocities done by the Arab states and Palistinians.... you knnow.. the people Israel is at war with??

Couldn't find any yourself? It sure is easy to find examples of violence against the Palestinians.

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Are homicide bombers allowed in the Geneva Conventions and the UN CHarter???

Do you mean the homicide bombers that operate from the comfort of their aircraft or the apparently more courageous ones that are willing to strap on a suicide vest? Either way, the Geneva Conventions deal primarily with non-combatants and POWs, as well as civilians in areas under control of an occupying power.

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How about using YOUR civilian population to sheild your weapons launch site... production facilities... and military headquarters???

Well, I'm childless, so my civilian population is limited to me. I don't have a weapons launch site, and my military headquarters is generally shielded only with a hat, if that.

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Its a dirty war... and all those resolutions.. pretty much are bogus bullshit.. they won the war.... they can take ALL the territory they want IF they want...

Apparently not, according to the rest of the world.

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OR does your idea of fair play ONLY work for those poor helpless Palestinians you love so much???

Nope, I try to make sure my idea of fair play is objectively universal. That's why I find it hypocritical that one can criticize Palestinians while simultaneously supporting the actions of Israelis.

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Most of your resolutions such as the entry in the the Jenin refugee camp and the destruction of civilian infrastructure..... is IDF going after the armed militias.. AGAIN hiding amoung cilvilians so people like you will wring your hands and go crazy frothing about the evils that the jews do.

You don't know me very well. I have a lot of respect for Jews and Judaism, at least relative to other deist religions. However, I view many of the military actions of Israel to be nothing more than acts of terrorism, just committed by one of our allies, so we don't call it that (much like when we were supporting jihadists in the Afghan-Soviet war, those jihadists were freedom fighters, but now that they're not on our side anymore, they're terrorists).

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[jcd11235 0]

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War is hell...if you attack me.. I am going to do whaqt ever I can to kill you and the people who support you...

That is not too hard to understand right??

The moral of the story.. be nice to me and I am nice to you... attack me and I will do anything I can to kill you.. last time I checked.. that is what war is about.

And in the context of Israel's treatment of civilian Palestinians on occupied territory, those actions are war crimes. It's good to know that you support them.

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Got a list of attrocities done by the Arab states and Palistinians.... you knnow.. the people Israel is at war with??

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Couldn't find any yourself? It sure is easy to find examples of violence against the Palestinians.

Why should I with all the whining several of you do about it incessantly... yet leave out the REST of the story....

You need a lot more cheese to go with all that whining

[jcd11235 0]

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Why should I with all the whining several of you do about it incessantly... yet leave out the REST of the story....

You need a lot more cheese to go with all that whining

'Tis a bit like the pot calling the kettle black; don't you think?

I challenge to find any post in which I've claimed or implied the Palestinian - Israeli violence is one sided. It's certainly not balanced, but it's not one sided.

You seem to be the one who keeps claiming that the Palestinians are completely wrong and the Israelis are completely justified in their actions.

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Nope.. but I DO know who my enemies are...

The reactions of the Palistinian people on 9/11 showed me yet again who they are...fuck them

I wont shed a tear for them at all till they try to make a lasting peace and get their own country to run the way they want.

[jcd11235 0]

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Nope.. but I DO know who my enemies are...

Couldn't find any posts to back up your claims, I guess?

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I wont shed a tear for them at all till they try to make a lasting peace and get their own country to run the way they want.

Yet, when they show a willingness to make peace, it is Israel and the US who stand in the way because Carter held talks with Hamas, who are in power legitimately and democratically.

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Then the stupid fucks who voted them into office need to suffer the consequences of their poor choices.

They selected the terrorist organization and support them in their war to obliterate Israel....too bad.. so sad.

They talked with Carter... good for them.. maybe something will come of it...

But if you TRUELY believe they want peace you are smokin some very expensive stuff that is causeing some interesting hallucinations.

THEIR avowed purpose is to end the occupation.. that includes ALL of what they consider to be Palestine. The 1967 borders to START talking is so much smoke and mirrors... it would never happen.

They were the ones about to attack the State of Israel in 1967 with massive armies from all sectors around Israel... and they got their asses kicked by a VASTLY outnumbered army and airforce.... they dont learn verry well.

[jcd11235 0]

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Then the stupid fucks who voted them into office need to suffer the consequences of their poor choices.

I suppose you feel that it would be justifiable for the United States to be attacked for voting in Bush?

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They selected the terrorist organization and support them in their war to obliterate Israel....too bad.. so sad.

Too bad Hamas' willingness to work towards peace is inconsistent with your opinion.

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They talked with Carter... good for them.. maybe something will come of it...

As long as the White House and Israel don't stand in the way of peace, it does have potential benefits.

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But if you TRUELY believe they want peace you are smokin some very expensive stuff that is causeing some interesting hallucinations.

Remember, it's Israel that won't step up to the table to negotiate peace.

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THEIR avowed purpose is to end the occupation.. that includes ALL of what they consider to be Palestine. The 1967 borders to START talking is so much smoke and mirrors... it would never happen.

Yeah. How unreasonable to suggest that the internationally recognized borders be recognized by Israel.

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I suppose you feel that it would be justifiable for the United States to be attacked for voting in Bush?

The American People voted the stupid fuck into office... and the American people and their children.. and their childrens children will be paying the price of his fuckups.

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Remember, it's Israel that won't step up to the table to negotiate peace.

Bullshit.. they were getting close when the Palestinians started the Intefada... remember???

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Yeah. How unreasonable to suggest that the internationally recognized borders be recognized by Israel.

THe Palestinians and most of the Arab States do not recognize those borders from 1948 even.. they want Israel gone.. or dont you get that....guess not.

[jcd11235 0]

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Remember, it's Israel that won't step up to the table to negotiate peace.

Bullshit.. they were getting close when the Palestinians started the Intefada... remember???

With some degree of reluctance and some uncertainty about the reception my book would receive, I used maps, text and documents to describe the situation accurately and to analyze the only possible path to peace: Israelis and Palestinians living side by side within their own internationally recognized boundaries. These options are consistent with key U.N. resolutions supported by the U.S. and Israel, official American policy since 1967, agreements consummated by Israeli leaders and their governments in 1978 and 1993 (for which they earned Nobel Peace Prizes), the Arab League's offer to recognize Israel in 2002 and the International Quartet's "Roadmap for Peace," which has been accepted by the PLO and largely rejected by Israel. (emphasis mine --jcd11235)

-- Pres. Jimmy Carter

Don't let the truth stand in the way of your rhetoric.

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And when Shimon Peres offered to sit down with the Arab League and actually negotiate.. the Arabs got all huffy and stomped off.

They gave Israel an Ultimatum.. not a real proposal..

To negotiate for peace you have to do it in good faith.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/30/world/middleeast/30saudi.html

But Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres appeared on the Arab satellite channel Al Jazeera to encourage Arab and Israeli leaders to hold direct talks on peace. “Let’s sit together as we are supposed to and work on it as we did before with Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians,” he said.

Arab leaders bristled at the Israeli reaction. “This does not express a positive stand of a country that wants peace,” said Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister.

Amr Moussa, secretary general of the Arab League, told reporters, referring to the

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Don't let the truth stand in the way of your rhetoric.

Don't let the truth stand in the way of your rhetoric.

[jcd11235 0]

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To negotiate for peace you have to do it in good faith.

True. The Arabs had an offer for peace talks on the table for five years, yet Israel didn't want to sit down.

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True. The Arabs had an offer for peace talks on the table for five years, yet Israel didn't want to sit down.

Try READING the article.....the truth will set you free

[jcd11235 0]

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True. The Arabs had an offer for peace talks on the table for five years, yet Israel didn't want to sit down.

Try READING the article.....the truth will set you free

I did, but apparently you only took one quote out of context. Besides, Carter is more credible than the NYT.

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