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The Carter Center also oversaw the voting when Hamas won. Most groups support democracy when they win. Israel didn't like the Hamas win.
So what? That doesn't mean the results weren't valid. Other than some shenanigans in Jerusalem that were sorted out, it apparently went pretty well.
BVs commented about Carter not being extended personal protection by Israel. (That is rare because of the possible consequences.) All of my examples were listed to explain the animosity that Israel has towards Carter.
Israel supported democracy and voting until it didn't go their way. Carters involvement was another reason to dislike him. Personally, I don't care. They can sort out their own politics and vote for who they want.
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Carters view is that he is the only morally correct figure.
His decisions have had adverse effects. He seems naive.
So basically, besides his successes you think he's arrogant and lame because he's not batting 1000? No one else in our government is even stepping up to the plate.
I'm not sure what his "successes" were that I listed.
Being duped by N Korea into giving them billions in oil and reactors ?
The Camp David Accords did the following:
- Allowed Egypt to avoid future unfavorable conflict with Israel.
- They didn't address any Palestinian issues there.
- Egypt got back the Sinai. Israel lost the Abu-Rudeis oil fields in western Sinai, which contained Israel's only long term commercially productive wells. The area also was the only coastal access that Israel had. (Really poor for Israel to give up all that.
Remember the Carter theme for "negotiating"?
He paid for their signatures.
He agreed to billions of dollars of annual subsidies to both goverments that continue today.
Egypt receives $1.3 billion in military credits annually. Israel gets $3 billion a year.
All for doing what they would have done anyway.
QuoteIf I were Israeli, or an American Jewish Democrat, I'd be going out of my mind right now. I've never understood that political allegiance, and I wonder if this will drive a wedge -- it's almost a 180 degree turn from the Camp David Accord in 1978.
Even Congressional democrats are wishing he wouldn't do this.
Jewish Liberals to create opposition to AIPAC
It would seem that the American Jewish Democrats ARE up in arms! They are creating an opposition to the lobby that pulls the strings of the neocons. It will be interesting to see who they support though- I hope not Obama, but I imagine they will support whoever has the best chance of beating the neocon...
Update:
"Since Syria and Hamas will have to be involved in a final peace agreement, they have to be involved in discussions that lead to final peace,"
With logic like this I can understand why the Bush administration doesn't approve.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jemWR1dnH-ATQzPTG3EZpMf6uSogD902FDDG1
"Since Syria and Hamas will have to be involved in a final peace agreement, they have to be involved in discussions that lead to final peace,"
With logic like this I can understand why the Bush administration doesn't approve.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jemWR1dnH-ATQzPTG3EZpMf6uSogD902FDDG1
"Can't hurt to try" indeed. At least people are talking, with some notable exceptions of course.
Also, if Hamas had killed a Reuters reporter do you think that the incident might have its own article?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7358188.stm
Also, if Hamas had killed a Reuters reporter do you think that the incident might have its own article?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7358188.stm
kallend 2,184
Quote"Can't hurt to try" indeed. At least people are talking, with some notable exceptions of course.
Also, if Hamas had killed a Reuters reporter do you think that the incident might have its own article?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7358188.stm
You cannot have peace unless you are prepared to talk to your enemies. The days of total war leading to unconditional surrender or annihilation are long gone. We've seen that in Vietnam, N. Ireland, and in Iraq.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteYou cannot have peace unless you are prepared to talk to your enemies. The days of total war leading to unconditional surrender or annihilation are long gone. We've seen that in Vietnam, N. Ireland, and in Iraq.
I agree. You open up the dialogue with everyone.
Carter, despite some of my issues, IS in a good position for this. He's a guy with nothing politically to gain from this.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Sorry for the bluntness, but what the fuck is the point of making this statement?
""I just don't want there to be any confusion," Rice said. "The United States is not going to deal with Hamas and we had certainly told President Carter that we did not think meeting with Hamas was going to help" further a political settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/22/AR2008042200608.html
I mean Carter has more success in one week than the Bush administration has had in eight fucking years and she's trying to distance the administration from the progress. Sure, the progress is nothing concrete but it was a major hurdle to the peace process. Now the only people who are standing in the way are the people with the power to make something happen. FUCK!
Hamas offers the olive branch, Israel answers by not agreeing to talk to Carter and then issues more building permits, and Condi says "hey, we had nothing to do with it".
No wonder people are pissed at us. Our words have the credibility and authenticity of a soy corn dog!
""I just don't want there to be any confusion," Rice said. "The United States is not going to deal with Hamas and we had certainly told President Carter that we did not think meeting with Hamas was going to help" further a political settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/22/AR2008042200608.html
I mean Carter has more success in one week than the Bush administration has had in eight fucking years and she's trying to distance the administration from the progress. Sure, the progress is nothing concrete but it was a major hurdle to the peace process. Now the only people who are standing in the way are the people with the power to make something happen. FUCK!
Hamas offers the olive branch, Israel answers by not agreeing to talk to Carter and then issues more building permits, and Condi says "hey, we had nothing to do with it".
No wonder people are pissed at us. Our words have the credibility and authenticity of a soy corn dog!
Seems that there's some potential on the peace front.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080424/wl_nm/palestinians_hamas_truce_dc_3;_ylt=Ah2NfulOq.4D8mtLGaCCjXcE1vAI
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7362937.stm
Let's see how our "boy blunder" (43) handles the opportunity this week. Will he thank Hamas for the gesture and pressure Olmert and Abbas to take advantage of the window and start negotiating in earnest? Or will he demand that Hamas chop down the largest tree in the forest with..........a herring?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080424/wl_nm/palestinians_hamas_truce_dc_3;_ylt=Ah2NfulOq.4D8mtLGaCCjXcE1vAI
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7362937.stm
Let's see how our "boy blunder" (43) handles the opportunity this week. Will he thank Hamas for the gesture and pressure Olmert and Abbas to take advantage of the window and start negotiating in earnest? Or will he demand that Hamas chop down the largest tree in the forest with..........a herring?
QuoteSorry for the bluntness, but what the fuck is the point of making this statement?
""I just don't want there to be any confusion," Rice said. "The United States is not going to deal with Hamas and we had certainly told President Carter that we did not think meeting with Hamas was going to help" further a political settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.
I mean Carter has more success in one week than the Bush administration has had in eight fucking years and she's trying to distance the administration from the progress. Sure, the progress is nothing concrete but it was a major hurdle to the peace process. Now the only people who are standing in the way are the people with the power to make something happen. FUCK!
Hamas offers the olive branch, Israel answers by not agreeing to talk to Carter and then issues more building permits, and Condi says "hey, we had nothing to do with it".
No wonder people are pissed at us. Our words have the credibility and authenticity of a soy corn dog!
Not sure I would agree. How can Hamas be extending the olive branch with one hand while continuing to fire missiles into Israel with the other. At some point, one side or the other has got to take the high road and stop attacking the other.
Carter doesn't have any more political aspirations, but his 22/3 books and his Carter Center certainly benefit from all of this publicity.
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Not sure I would agree. How can Hamas be extending the olive branch with one hand while continuing to fire missiles into Israel with the other.
How can Israel claim that they want peace when they continue to steal land and use fleschette shells? The "who shot first" question moot. Something has to be done to get a dialog started.
One of the main criticisms of Hamas is that they refused to recognize Israel. Earlier this week they publicly stated that they would. That's a major event, whether our media and leadership like it or not. Also the recent truce offering included the cessation of the rocket attacks in exchange for an Israeli cessation of targeted assassinations and military incursions into Gaza. Sounds like a proposed cease fire. Will the Israeli's and the US accept it and start a dialog?
My bet is no. The land grab hasn't been completed.
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At some point, one side or the other has got to take the high road and stop attacking the other.
Yep. And the leaders also have to realize that any small single event from either side cannot be allowed to derail an open dialog. There are extreme factions on both sides that don't want any concessions made.
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Carter doesn't have any more political aspirations, but his 22/3 books and his Carter Center certainly benefit from all of this publicity.
I'll give that comment the attention it deserves.
Amazon 7
QuoteThe "who shot first" question moot. Something has to be done to get a dialog started.
You obviously do not understand one of the major tenants of two major religions....that whole eye for an eye thing.. sort of makes a HUGE difference in this conflict..
You shoot at me.. I will shoot back at you...and I will target and most likely hit the fucktwats who told you to shoot first.
Such is the conflict..
Taking land.. is that not war is all about..??
If you keep the war going and will not make peace.. that is STUPIDITY
I would say they pissed off the wrong people and they keep attacking.. and losing MORE land... that constitutes. STUPIDITY.
Like I said, there are extremists on both sides.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Amazon 7
That is not an extremist view... its a view based in reality.. not some wishy washy view that surrender monkeys would foist on Israel...in the HOPE that Hamas and Hezbollah would make peace.
Would you trust YOUR future to those that want to kill you because you do not follow their particular blend of middle eastern religion??
That is the reality for jews.
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Would you trust YOUR future to those that want to kill you because you do not follow their particular blend of middle eastern religion??
That is the reality forjewsZionists.
Fixed it. Not precisely accurate but close enough for this narrow aspect of the conversation.
Amazon 7
If the Israelis wanted to .. they have the means to do it.. SO ... I just think it is anti-semitism rearing its ugly head yet again when its said that is what the Israelis are out to do.. just more redirection from those that really do want to wipe out the jews. reality is... the Israelis would make peace if the Palistinians really wanted that.... flip the tables.. and the Palistinians under Hamas and Hezbollah would be butchering Jews as their grandfathers did before in Palestine and in many of the countries surrounding Palistine in the early part of the last century.
Why is it you always forget to think of that reality??
Why is it you always forget to think of that reality??
QuoteIf the Israelis wanted to .. they have the means to do it.. SO ... I just think it is anti-semitism rearing its ugly head yet again when its said that is what the Israelis are out to do.. just more redirection from those that really do want to wipe out the jews. reality is... the Israelis would make peace if the Palistinians really wanted that.... flip the tables.. and the Palistinians under Hamas and Hezbollah would be butchering Jews as their grandfathers did before in Palestine and in many of the countries surrounding Palistine in the early part of the last century.
Why is it you always forget to think of that reality??
I've shown you repeatedly how Israeli foreign policy is illegal. I've shown you the war crimes. I've provided link to text, audio and video that support my argument that Israel brings on much of the violence that they receive due to their policy of apartheid and zionist manifest destiny. I've shown you how Israel violates our own demands. And to say that I'm disappointed that you will acknowledge absolutely NONE of that information is an understatement. To say that I'm upset by your insistence on calling me anti-semitic because I point out the crimes of Zionists, not all Jews, but those who think that the land outside their boarders is there for the taking regardless of the crimes and human rights violations necessary to achieve that goal is also a VAST understatement. That tactic is cheap and dishonest.
If you want to dispute the information that I provide and want to show me how the Israeli actions are legal then please be my guest. I would welcome that discussion. If you're going to ignore everything I post and call me names in your straw man arguments then don't expect another reply.
Amazon 7
I watched your video of the IDF guys who made the little fucknugget teenagers who had been throwing rocks at them stand in front of their vehicle.... so that their little buddies would stop chucking rocks at them more... DUDE.. you label that as a WAR crime .. talk about OVERSTATING any little bullshit thing you can.
Do that to a cop cqr here in the states and see where you and your friends end up.
Israeli foreign policy is to protect their people, Jews and Arab.. from a group of people they are at war with and who indescriminately lob rockets into their country... and who will not make peace.
Do the Israelis use their people to ring their airbases and army posts... not on your life.
BUT your buddies make sure they are surrounded by innocents( although those innocents do provide Hamas and Hezbollah and Fatah all the support they want because they are raised to do so) so that when the Israelis do retaliate against the leadership of the people attacking them.... some do indeed get killed... so people like you can try to justify the crap you do. Those people truely ARE being used as human shields.. How come no declaration of your buddies as WAR CRIMINALS.
When you start to decry the attacks that your vaunted "freedom fighters" are making on a daily basis against innocent civilians then perhaps you might pick up an ounce of credibility.
Do that to a cop cqr here in the states and see where you and your friends end up.
Israeli foreign policy is to protect their people, Jews and Arab.. from a group of people they are at war with and who indescriminately lob rockets into their country... and who will not make peace.
Do the Israelis use their people to ring their airbases and army posts... not on your life.
BUT your buddies make sure they are surrounded by innocents( although those innocents do provide Hamas and Hezbollah and Fatah all the support they want because they are raised to do so) so that when the Israelis do retaliate against the leadership of the people attacking them.... some do indeed get killed... so people like you can try to justify the crap you do. Those people truely ARE being used as human shields.. How come no declaration of your buddies as WAR CRIMINALS.
When you start to decry the attacks that your vaunted "freedom fighters" are making on a daily basis against innocent civilians then perhaps you might pick up an ounce of credibility.
Nice. The ambassador for racism to the UN calls Carter a "bigot".
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hzYymF-q-1q0DmCCwRS4gd5DDjKQD908J88O0
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hzYymF-q-1q0DmCCwRS4gd5DDjKQD908J88O0
QuoteI watched your video of the IDF guys who made the little fucknugget teenagers who had been throwing rocks at them stand in front of their vehicle....
You're telling me that's the only link I've posted that you've checked out?
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BUT your buddies ....
Ok, that's enough. Have a nice day.
wow Amazon- for someone I thought I had read to be as Anti-Bush and Co. as you sound, it seems odd to hear you defend Israel like that. After all, Bush is only implementing Israels policy of exterminating and suppressing ALL of their enemies in that part of the world. Have you examined how many UN security Resolutions they have either: violated, ignored, disregarded, or just had pimp daddy US veto?
Do you agree with the statement, "Truth does not fear investigation"? If so, why would the Zionists jail academics for merely suggesting that the history of WWII regarding the extermination of the Jews/concentration camps may be incorrect? Why do they fear investigation?
Do you agree with the statement, "Truth does not fear investigation"? If so, why would the Zionists jail academics for merely suggesting that the history of WWII regarding the extermination of the Jews/concentration camps may be incorrect? Why do they fear investigation?
and has way more credibility than your incumbent disaster.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
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