DZJ 0 #1 April 7, 2008 QuoteFrench security officials have been forced to cut short the Paris leg of the Olympic torch relay following anti-Chinese protests along the route. The torch was extinguished three times due to the protests before being taken on a bus to the relay's end point. ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7334545.stm QuoteThirty-seven arrests have been made after clashes between pro-Tibet protesters and police as the Olympic torch made its way through London. Protests over China's human rights record began soon after the relay began at Wembley, and prompted an increasing police presence through the city. ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7332942.stm Anyone else think that the global Olympic torch relay is rapidly descending into total farce? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #2 April 7, 2008 Wherever that torch goes there will be protests, and rightly so. China should have never been rewarded with the Olympics. Plus, it's hilarious to see people chasing the torch with fire extinguishers! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #3 April 7, 2008 Quote Plus, it's hilarious to see people chasing the torch with fire extinguishers! Hey! That could become a new Olympic event!"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #4 April 7, 2008 QuoteAnyone else think that the global Olympic torch relay is rapidly descending into total farce? Yep, and it's a damn good thing too.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #5 April 7, 2008 Sure, tough guys, in groups, attacking little runners. Nice Why don't they go to the Chinese embassy or to China directly and protest. That is respectable. Though I agree with the message, this method of putting it out there is pure cowardice ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #6 April 7, 2008 QuoteSure, tough guys, in groups, attacking little runners. Nice Why don't they go to the Chinese embassy or to China directly and protest. That is respectable. Though I agree with the message, this method of putting it out there is pure cowardice Disagree. Protests are all about getting PR, and this is doing it very well.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #7 April 7, 2008 The whole point of the Olympics is to put the politics aside and participate. I knew a guy who had a shrine to his athletic achievements of his youth in his basement. The centrepiece was a certificate naming him to the 1980 Canadian Olympic track team; not going to the Olympics will be a regret he will never completely recover from. Everyone who won a medal at the '84 games in LA knows they are cheapened because the east block didn't come. Leave the politics out of the games. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 April 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteSure, tough guys, in groups, attacking little runners. Nice Why don't they go to the Chinese embassy or to China directly and protest. That is respectable. Though I agree with the message, this method of putting it out there is pure cowardice Disagree. Protests are all about getting PR, and this is doing it very well. You're right. In fact, they could get even more PR by firing bullets indiscrimincately into the procession. Or even attacking with knives would be even more 'promoting'. I think using tanks would REALLY get them some press (and tie off to the Chinese government way of dealing with trouble too so the message would be so poignant). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #9 April 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteSure, tough guys, in groups, attacking little runners. Nice Why don't they go to the Chinese embassy or to China directly and protest. That is respectable. Though I agree with the message, this method of putting it out there is pure cowardice Disagree. Protests are all about getting PR, and this is doing it very well. I agree and disagree. They are getting good press from this, but good "PR?" That depends on yoru side. I dont' think people should victimize those who are fairly innocent with their protests. Attacking a little runner? Yeah, let's go after that guy. Have some balls and blow out the torch at the Beijing National Stadium. Do it someplace where the other person will be the only victim. Yeah, it's screwed up that China got these Olympics. Dont' take it out on the torch bearers. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #10 April 7, 2008 QuoteThe whole point of the Olympics is to put the politics aside and participate. I knew a guy who had a shrine to his athletic achievements of his youth in his basement. The centrepiece was a certificate naming him to the 1980 Canadian Olympic track team; not going to the Olympics will be a regret he will never completely recover from. Everyone who won a medal at the '84 games in LA knows they are cheapened because the east block didn't come. Leave the politics out of the games. Yeah, let's hand China a huge moral and propaganda victory to exploit, like the world did for Hitler in 1936. Great. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #11 April 7, 2008 > Sure, tough guys, in groups, attacking little runners. Nice Actually it's been individual protesters battling police and security. >Why don't they go to the Chinese embassy or to China directly and protest. Because China has no right to free speech. Protesters are routinely arrested and thrown in jail. (Although lately they're getting better.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 April 7, 2008 Quote> Actually it's been individual protesters battling police and security. not the clips I saw this morning, but I'm sure that's true too - I saw a runner get hit by a fire extinguiser (not the spray, though that's assault too, but the body of it) you think the police and security are just randomly attacking the protesters for no reason? or do you think the protesters are 'crossing' the line between protesting and attacking and then the cops and security are just doing their job? I suspect at some point, security personnel will get a bit twitchy and then they'll cross their line, but right now do you think it's already happening? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 April 7, 2008 Quote>Because China has no right to free speech. Protesters are routinely arrested and thrown in jail. (Although lately they're getting better.) I understand - that makes it ok to physically attack the runners in some other country. thanks, glad to know it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #14 April 7, 2008 >you think the police and security are just randomly attacking the protesters >for no reason? Not at all. They are protecting the runners from what they see as a threat. >that makes it ok to physically attack the runners in some other country. Never said it was, as you well know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 April 7, 2008 Quote >Never said it was, as you well know. ya got me Still looks like the torch carriers (bottom of a manpile, getting hit, sprayed and burned) are in the middle of it, not the police and security off to the distance. The police and security have the job to be in the thick of it. OK. The protestors are initiating it, so OK if they get bumped around and even hurt too. The runners didn't sign up for any of it. I like LawRocket's post best. Go blow out the flame in Beijing. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #16 April 7, 2008 Quote Quote >Never said it was, as you well know. ya got me Still looks like the torch carriers (bottom of a manpile, getting hit, sprayed and burned) are in the middle of it, not the police and security off to the distance. The police and security have the job to be in the thick of it. OK. The protestors are initiating it, so OK if they get bumped around and even hurt too. The runners didn't sign up for any of it. I like LawRocket's post best. Go blow out the flame in Beijing. Maybe it will discourage some runners from carrying that torch of utter shame. And anyone who carries it from here on out knows what is coming, so no whining when it happens. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #17 April 7, 2008 >The police and security have the job to be in the thick of it. OK. The >protestors are initiating it, so OK if they get bumped around and >even hurt too. Agreed. >The runners didn't sign up for any of it. They agreed to participate in what is essentially a political statement. Carrying it before the start of the Games was reintroduced in 1928, and ever since then, has attracted the occasional protester, especially when the host country is controversial. (Google who started the carrying of the torch, and why.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #18 April 7, 2008 Quote Wherever that torch goes there will be protests, and rightly so. China should have never been rewarded with the Olympics. Plus, it's hilarious to see people chasing the torch with fire extinguishers! I 100% agree with you on this one. A mate of mine went to the demo in London and attests that the cops were very heavy handed with the anti-Chinese protesters and very lenient with the Pro-Chinese "supporters"... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #19 April 7, 2008 Reminds me of the joke about the Met's idea of a Chinese take-away as hauling off a Tibetan bloke kicking and screaming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #20 April 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteSure, tough guys, in groups, attacking little runners. Nice Why don't they go to the Chinese embassy or to China directly and protest. That is respectable. Though I agree with the message, this method of putting it out there is pure cowardice Disagree. Protests are all about getting PR, and this is doing it very well. You're right. In fact, they could get even more PR by firing bullets indiscrimincately into the procession. Or even attacking with knives would be even more 'promoting'. I think using tanks would REALLY get them some press (and tie off to the Chinese government way of dealing with trouble too so the message would be so poignant). Yeah, none of the runners were actually injured, but comparing the whole affair to a mass shooting is, like, soooo true.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #21 April 7, 2008 Still, the lads did alright out of it.... all that overtime (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #22 April 7, 2008 QuoteThey agreed to participate in what is essentially a political statement. What is the statement? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #23 April 7, 2008 >What is the statement? The modern torch relay was begun in 1936 for the Berlin games. The German government started it as a way to prove to the world how Aryan athletes were naturally superior (and had no problem carrying torches for hourse on end, all the way from Greece to Berlin) and was also used to showcase the industrial capabilities of the new Germany (i.e. massive mirrors that were used to light it with sunlight, magnesium torches that would burn for hours, and video coverage which was quite a technological achievement at the time.) They justified this by claiming that Greek culture was the basis for Aryan culture, and thus there was both a direct and metaphorical link. Josef Goebbels directed media coverage of the torch relay, and video of it was broadcast widely throughout the world - one of the first such video broadcasts ever. He spoke at the Olympic opening and described the entire ceremony (including the lighting of the torch) as "a victory for the German cause." Needless to say, it has (fortunately) left those roots behind and become far less political. However, the torch still represents, to some degree, the country that the games are being held in, like it or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #24 April 7, 2008 RIIIIGHT, I bet all the runners believe they are making a political statement. Do you really believe that even 1 in 100 of the runners even know this stuff? THe alternative is just they want to participate in the Olympics and thought it would be neat and THIS TIME they had the opportunity. I thought the torch represented the Olympics, not China. Silly me. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #25 April 7, 2008 > RIIIIGHT, I bet all the runners believe they are making a political > statement. I'm sure most of them didn't. After what happened in France, they are probably getting a better idea of what to expect, though. >THe alternative is just they want to participate in the Olympics and >thought it would be neat and THIS TIME they had the opportunity. True of a lot of people. I knew college kids in my class who got a great opportunity to make some easy money stuffing envelopes for PAC's. Doesn't mean they support any given brand of politics. But if someone opposes that PAC, and they protest the kid's involvement in it - then next time the kid might make a different decision on whether or not to participate. Who's right and who's wrong? No one. (Provided they do not, as a few people have done in this case, attack or injure anyone.) >I thought the torch represented the Olympics, not China. Silly me. Yep. Just like, to many Southerners, the confederate flag represents their heritage, their ancestors etc. Yet others see it as representing slavery and a bloody revolt that killed tens of thousands of americans. Again, which is right and which is wrong? No clear answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites