Clinton's hospital story

[lawrocket 3]

Apparently, she's gonna quit using it because nobody out there can confirm that it went down like she described.

For those that don't know, the former First Lady and present senator from New York was campaigning for president. She has been discussing the story of a young uninsured pizza shop worker who was denied hospital care, resulting first in the loss of her baby and then her death. She claims it all happened because she couldn't afford a $100 payment.

"It is so wrong, in this good, great and rich country, that a young woman and her baby would die because she didn't have health insurance or a hundred dollars to get examined," said Clinton.

It does not seem, however, that this story can be confirmed. Hillary was told this tale at by somebody at a campaign hosting. She ran with it because, "She had no reason to doubt his word."

Said a campaign spokesman, "She never mentions the hospital by name and isn't trying to cast blame. She tells this story because it illustrates the point that we have a very serious health care problem in America. That's a point very few people will dispute."

---

So, what we see is somebody trying to illustrate how bad the American health care system is. Rather than use true stories (which probably aren't bad enough) they'll run with a false one. If you have to resort to lies to prove yoru point, what's that say about the point you are making?

This is yet another example of where a personal perception of things can set you wrong. When you're thinking is, "I have no reason not to believe it" takes precedence over "Well, let's look into this before casting aspersions" you find disorder, lack of credibility, etc.

"In short, you have a ghastly mess!" - George Banks, Mary Poppins

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Come one Lawrocket, give her a break. She is after all still shell shocked from all that sniper fire during her last Balkans visit.

Clinton is toast. The fat lady has been singing for a while now.
The Clintons just don't don't like the music they are hearing.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[happythoughts 0]

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Said a campaign spokesman, "She never mentions the hospital by name and isn't trying to cast blame. She tells this story because it illustrates the point that we have a very serious health care problem in America. That's a point very few people will dispute."

CNN story

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While Clinton never named the hospital in her speech, the woman she was referring to was treated at O'Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. The hospital said the woman did indeed have insurance, and, at least at their hospital, she was never turned away.

Hospital Chief Executive Officer Rick Castrop in a statement said, "we reviewed the medical and patient accounts of the patient" after she was named in a newspaper story about Clinton's stump speech.

"There is no indication that she was ever denied medical care at any time, for any reason. We clearly reject any perception that we ever denied any care to this woman."

A hospital spokesperson confirmed to CNN the woman had insurance. She said the hospital decided to come forward after people in the community began to question if they had denied her care.

She did have insurance and no care was denied.

Basically, the Clinton campaign wanted to find a topic that they could talk about. Someone in a meeting said, "This one time, my cousin's neighbor's friend..."

She quoted it as fact because she needed to.

Anyone else could have plausibly been forgiven for repeating a false, but politically valued, story if she wasn't 0 for 5 on honesty for 2008. At this point, many people think she would run with the story, even if she knew if was false.

The campaign spins it as, "Well... it happened somewhere probably...".

The part that I don't understand is why she continues to tell the American public that she is going to do something about health care.

She tried and failed the last time that she tried for 8 years?

Is she gaining some new autocratic powers that will allow her to bypass that pesky Congress?

I don't think that it is wise for her to use false stories to remind voter of her past failures.

[SkyPiggie 0]

Both of the Clinton's are pathological liars who will say anything to try and get their way. That alone is reason enough not to put them back in the White House.

And Obama has already been caught telling several lies also.

Their true colors are starting to show, and people are noticing.

John Kerry has already faded into obscurity. In a few more years, no one will remember or care about either of these liberal bozos either.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Both of the Clinton's are pathological liars who will say anything to try and get their way. That alone is reason enough not to put them back in the White House.

And Obama has already been caught telling several lies also.

Their true colors are starting to show, and people are noticing.

John Kerry has already faded into obscurity. In a few more years, no one will remember or care about either of these liberal bozos either.

Why do you need to attack them for this. every politician who ever ran for office can be caught out for embellishing, conveniently forgetting unhelpful details, and yes, outright lying on occasion. Why don't you attack them for being liberals? Isn't that a good enough reason? It is, after all, the real reason you don't like them.
When Obama made his speech on racism last month I thought it was an excellent speech that will be remembered. While everyone on the right was howling in righteous indignation at the heinous nature of every one of his little confessions everyone completely ignored the anti-capitalist premise of the the whole thing (don't blame affirmative action because you lost your job, blame the evil capitalist).
I think Obama is a good man who will carry a lot of integrity with him into the Whitehouse if he makes it. I also think he is an "eat the rich" socialist who will be very bad for the American (and so the world) economy. If republicans hammer on that message instead of hunting down some friend somewhere who said 'screw whitey' once while drunk they will probably connect with the majority of Americans who understand that capitalism is what makes America great.

[rushmc 23]

All I remember is Obama threw his grandmother under the bus to save his political ass.

That is what I remember about his "great" speach.


Hope (for him) it was worth it. But, being a "typical white person" causes me some trouble understanding throwing your own out to get run over for a political reason

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Both of the Clinton's are pathological liars who will say anything to try and get their way. That alone is reason enough not to put them back in the White House.

And Obama has already been caught telling several lies also.

Their true colors are starting to show, and people are noticing.

John Kerry has already faded into obscurity. In a few more years, no one will remember or care about either of these liberal bozos either.

Yellowcake from Niger
Aluminum tubes for enriching uranium
"We know where they are"
"Deficit will be small and short lived"

Just a sampling from Bush & Co that have cost the US a fortune in lives and $$$

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

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every politician who ever ran for office can be caught out for embellishing, conveniently forgetting unhelpful details, and yes, outright lying on occasion.

Indeed! I don't dispute that. Kinda like Reagan speaking of the bomber going down and the radio picking up the brave conversation. Or Bush's numerous lies about the war.

But I quoted that portion for the idea of perceptions. It doesn't matter if something did or did not happen. Clinton's perception that there was no reason to doubt it says PLENTY about public perception.

There is PLENTY of reason to doubt it, and even more of a reason to check facts when basing an entire policy on things like this.

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When Obama made his speech on racism last month I thought it was an excellent speech that will be remembered.

I did, too. Apparently, we are the exception.

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While everyone on the right was howling in righteous indignation at the heinous nature of every one of his little confessions

Oh, plenty on the left were howling, too. You don't think the Clinton supporters sought to ridicule and make hay out of it? They did - in droves.

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I think Obama is a good man who will carry a lot of integrity with him into the Whitehouse if he makes it.

I agree.

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I also think he is an "eat the rich" socialist

I agree. The difference between him and Clinton and McCain - he admits that he's a socialist.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

From hillary's website: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/reform/

"Well, how about this for a new approach? No more cronyism, no more corruption, and no more deception. And here's an old-fashioned idea: let's start appointing qualified people to positions of power again."

Hillary - there is a reason why I don't trust you!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyPiggie 0]

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Why do you need to attack them for this. every politician who ever ran for office can be caught out for embellishing, conveniently forgetting unhelpful details, and yes, outright lying on occasion.

So we should just accept their lying and vote for them anyway?
I don't think so.

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When Obama made his speech on racism last month I thought it was an excellent speech that will be remembered.

Yeah, that was the first lie to be uncovered. First he said that the preacher had never said those incendiary types of things while he attended. Then in your so-called great speech, he admitted that the preacher had in fact said such things in his presence. So he lied at first, because he thought he could get away with it. Just like Bill Clinton. Is that the kind of President you want? I don't think so.

He's since been caught in a second lie also. I don't recall at the moment what that one was. Just type "Obama lies" in Google and see just how much integrity he has. He's just another "say anything to get elected" politician.

Hillary lies about sniper fire and hospital care. Bill Clinton lied about black churches being burned while he was governor. The whole freakin' lot of 'em are a bunch of pathological liars that are so used to doing it that it now just comes naturally to them, and they think nothing of it. That's not a quality I want in a president.

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I think Obama is a good man who will carry a lot of integrity with him into the Whitehouse

If you lie repeatedly, you don't have integrity. These two things are mutually exclusive.

[SkyPiggie 0]

Quote

Yellowcake from Niger
Aluminum tubes for enriching uranium
"We know where they are"
"Deficit will be small and short lived"

Just a sampling from Bush & Co that have cost the US a fortune in lives and $$$

So you're willing to accept democrats that lie, but not republicans that lie? Are you going to vote for Hillary or Barack, even though they've both now been caught outright lying several times? Doesn't that destroy your confidence that they'll be any different than "Bush & Co"? And look at Pelosi's Congress, which she promised would be the most ethical in history - she's already blown that promise. Your beloved liberals ain't no different from the conservative which you love to hate.

[kelpdiver 2]

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So you're willing to accept democrats that lie, but not republicans that lie? Are you going to vote for Hillary or Barack, even though they've both now been caught outright lying several times?

I'm sure his point would be that if you're given a choice of two liars, take the one you like better. We know what the cost of Iraq has been (though I'll maintain the lies were just propoganda aside from the real reasons for the war).

[kelpdiver 2]

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She tried and failed the last time that she tried for 8 years?

I'd say her efforts went about a year in the 93-94 period. And then the Newt victories came and that was the end of that. Pretty much like the Clinton and Bush efforts on Social Security reform. Enough people screamed loudly at the solution that ignoring the problem seemed a better political choice.

Of course, the problem is still there. Hillary Clinton was 2 decades ahead of her time, but at some point soon we're going to have to change the model. That may start with McCain's approach to end the tax subsidation of employer provided care, but I suspect the < 100M full time employees won't want that to happen, so more likely we'll need to abruptly jump to the single payer model later.

[billvon 3,132]

> All I remember is Obama threw his grandmother under the bus to
> save his political ass.

You should listen to his speech sometime. He could have been describing my grandmother. She was from Ireland, and the only black people she ever saw for the first 30 years of her life were criminals. It took a huge effort on her part to overcome her early experiences and start to accept them as something other than evil people with a tendency towards crime.

It's a process that a great many people from that era have had to go through.

[skydyvr 0]

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He could have been describing my grandmother.

Yep, she's obviously just a "typical white person", a member of the one stereotyped group that suddenly seems acceptable to the left these days.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,132]

>Yep, she's obviously just a "typical white person" . . .

As a woman who started from being a potato farmer and brought her family to the US in the days where boats were the only option, she's hardly typical.

[skydyvr 0]

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>Yep, she's obviously just a "typical white person" . . .

As a woman who started from being a potato farmer and brought her family to the US in the days where boats were the only option, she's hardly typical.

Exactly, which illustrates what irks me about people using that sort of expression. I certainly don't want a president that uses such expressions.

. . =(_8^(1)

[rushmc 23]

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> All I remember is Obama threw his grandmother under the bus to
> save his political ass.

You should listen to his speech sometime. He could have been describing my grandmother. She was from Ireland, and the only black people she ever saw for the first 30 years of her life were criminals. It took a huge effort on her part to overcome her early experiences and start to accept them as something other than evil people with a tendency towards crime.

It's a process that a great many people from that era have had to go through.

and my grandmother but, thats far far from the point.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

Yellowcake from Niger
Aluminum tubes for enriching uranium
"We know where they are"
"Deficit will be small and short lived"

Just a sampling from Bush & Co that have cost the US a fortune in lives and $$$

So you're willing to accept democrats that lie, but not republicans that lie? Are you going to vote for Hillary or Barack, even though they've both now been caught outright lying several times? Doesn't that destroy your confidence that they'll be any different than "Bush & Co"? And look at Pelosi's Congress, which she promised would be the most ethical in history - she's already blown that promise. Your beloved liberals ain't no different from the conservative which you love to hate.

Just giving a little balance, since you ONLY mentioned Dems.

Here's a sampling of PROVEN liars during my lifetime:

Eisenhower
Kennedy
Johnson
Carter
Reagan
GHW Bush
Clinton
GW Bush

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

> All I remember is Obama threw his grandmother under the bus to
> save his political ass.

You should listen to his speech sometime. He could have been describing my grandmother. She was from Ireland, and the only black people she ever saw for the first 30 years of her life were criminals. It took a huge effort on her part to overcome her early experiences and start to accept them as something other than evil people with a tendency towards crime.

It's a process that a great many people from that era have had to go through.

The only black people I saw for the first 10 years of my life were medical doctors and nurses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Here's a sampling of PROVEN liars during my lifetime:

Eisenhower
Kennedy
Johnson
Carter
Reagan
GHW Bush
Clinton
GW Bush

Good thing Nixon was in the mix to keep the standards up.

[billvon 3,132]

>and my grandmother

Why oh why did you throw your grandmother under the bus? You're as bad as Obama is!

[rushmc 23]

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>and my grandmother

Why oh why did you throw your grandmother under the bus? You're as bad as Obama is!

Cant go at anything straight up can you!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

Here's a sampling of PROVEN liars during my lifetime:

Eisenhower
Kennedy
Johnson
Carter
Reagan
GHW Bush
Clinton
GW Bush

Good thing Nixon was in the mix to keep the standards up.

But he TOLD us he was not a crook

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

> All I remember is Obama threw his grandmother under the bus to
> save his political ass.

You should listen to his speech sometime. He could have been describing my grandmother. She was from Ireland, and the only black people she ever saw for the first 30 years of her life were criminals. It took a huge effort on her part to overcome her early experiences and start to accept them as something other than evil people with a tendency towards crime.

It's a process that a great many people from that era have had to go through.

and my grandmother but, thats far far from the point.

And my Nana, who was kind to all people regardless of race, and then when she was in her late 70s one nice young man of about 28yrs old, and of black heritage snatched her purse and knocked her to the ground as she was getting off of the Senior Center bus.

Her opinion changed slightly, for she knew right then how she was viewed by those like him.

Somehow, I know in my heart that the guy who did it got punished.