Anger Acceptable for Atheists

[Hausse 0]

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Do you believe that black Americans deserve anything special?

I do, in the form of EEO laws. Blacks were beat down for ~400 years in this country, and STILL are in certain ways despite all the right laws being in place.

I believe EEO is justified and has been very useful, though I'm hoping we'll not need it for too many more years.

So then you believe that the US needs the same law's to protect the atheists?

[Butters 0]

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Do you believe that black Americans deserve anything special?

I do, in the form of EEO laws. Blacks were beat down for ~400 years in this country, and STILL are in certain ways despite all the right laws being in place.

I believe EEO is justified and has been very useful, though I'm hoping we'll not need it for too many more years.

Various religous groups have beat down other religous groups/individuals and non-religous groups/individuals for centuries (and still are in certain ways despite all the right laws being in place) ... do atheists deserve anything special?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[futuredivot 0]

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Well there is this one little difference, Newdow is trying to use the Courts to push his dislike for God and all things religious. Robertson uses his TV Program to push his beliefs.

I pretty much boil it down to the presentation of beliefs is good-the legislation of beliefs is bad. I see too many on both sides that seem to think that 'my rights outrank your rights'
Back to the original post-nuturing an active anger about past persecutions is about as sane as me being pissed at the girl that broke my grandfather's heart at the barn dance when he was 12. What good can come of it?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Channman 2]

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Well there is this one little difference, Newdow is trying to use the Courts to push his dislike for God and all things religious. Robertson uses his TV Program to push his beliefs.

I'm not sure if it's just worded incorrectly but that he dislikes god is a severe misconception. He does not dislike god, but he knows that he does not exist.

Your correct, I should have said, his dislike for christians and any and all partakers of religion.

[skydyvr 0]

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So then you believe that the US needs the same law's to protect the atheists?

Nope. There's a clear difference between the religious differences and/or oppression we've seen in this country vs. what black folks went through.

Do you want EEO for atheists?

. . =(_8^(1)

[beowulf 1]

At first I didn't understand your question at all. I don't feel any religous persecution. I don't have any religon to feel persecuted over. I don't think that any religon or religous people are targeting or have targeted specifically athiests. Atheism has no central organization that I know of.

[Butters 0]

Do atheists deserve to be angry given the amount of religious persecution throughout history.

PS: The question is based on the current discussions regarding whether black Americans deserve to be angry given the amount of racial persecution throughout history.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[lawrocket 3]

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Well there is this one little difference, Newdow is trying to use the Courts to push his dislike for God and all things religious. Robertson uses his TV Program to push his beliefs.

And both sides try to use public school boards to push their beliefs. Sure, the religious get more news for it because they are attempting to give greater weight to the bible than to science (justifiable that it gets more scrutiny, in my view) but other schools boards and districts are passing measures that prevent anything other than 100% secular speech and communication.

Stalin had his way of erasing people from the past by removing all mention, including photographs, etc. The best way to eliminate a competing thought is to ensure that it is never mentioned or discussed.

Both sides are doing it in their own way. Bible-thumpers trying to get intelligent design taught (I'm talking substantively teaching intelligent design) while hard-core secularists try to remove any mention of Intelligent Design (even mention that there is a competing theory out there called Intelligent Design).

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Hausse 0]

Your sig line rocks Channman

[beowulf 1]

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Do atheists deserve to be angry given the amount of religious persecution throughout history.

PS: The question is based on the current discussions regarding whether black Americans deserve to be angry given the amount of racial persecution throughout history.

I think it would be counter productive for them to be angry about past or even current racial discrimination. They would be better off by not acknowleding it and concentrating on improving themselves. To acknowledge racial discrimination and get angry over it would only give those who discriminate power to manipulate them through the anger. Just my opinion.

[billvon 3,111]

>They would be better off by not acknowleding it and concentrating on
>improving themselves

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. People SHOULD acknowledge (and study) the past, even if it's painful at times to see what we were like (slavery, the Salem witch trials etc etc.)

Doesn't mean it has to determine the course of your life. But every one of us, from every religion and race, are here because of decisions that our fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, presidents, congressmen, generals etc made. And to deny that heritage is a mistake, IMO - no matter what emotions those decisions bring out in you.

[pirana 0]

Anger resolves problems like a fan resolves a pile of loose papers.

I do like the earlier mentioned point about doing something productive though.

A good distinction for living effectively.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[maadmax 0]

I would think a much more productive solution to past wrongs would be accomplished by a spirit of forgiveness rather than anger. When understanding replaces ignorance the wrongs will cease to occur. Anger just seems to fuel ignorance.




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[likearock 2]

It makes me angry that anyone would not find it acceptable for anyone else to be angry. We all have a right to be angry.

[Tink1717 2]

Considering the sheer amount of lying and false information that theists (mostly christian theists) propagte about atheists (like the often repeated lie that we are trying to ban all mention of religion in public as repeated by Lawrocket in this thread), anger is, in my mind, a completely rational response.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Do you believe that it is acceptable for atheists to be angry considering the amount of religious persecution that has occurred over history?

I'm not sure if anger is quite the right word but Christianity has caused a huge amount of trouble over the years. It's unfortunate because there is actually more about the Bible that I do believe than that I don't. But there is just something so twisted about the Christian need to back up their message of 'love' with the threat of eternal torture if you don't quite believe their way.

It also doesn't make sense. Why should a finite number of sins in mortal life lead to eternal (infinite) suffering? The threatened punishment doesn't fit the crime, but there is too much sadism in the hearts of church leaders (Jesus himself was, fortunately, an exception) to see this. And Jesus' finite (though admittedly great) suffering paid for the sins of all humans throughout history? Again, doesn't add up.

I'm not an atheist, but a lot of people in my life became Christians of the punitive, fire and brimstone school at about the same time, and that caused me a lot of problems, and really turned me off of organized Christianity.

I saw the movie 'Judas' over Easter weekend. It portrays Jesus as someone who loved unconditionally and Judas as someone continually trying to manipulate Jesus into punishing others. The attitude of most Christians, to be honest, seems more like Judas than Jesus. They want to use Jesus as a tool to punish those they don't like.

Again, I don't know if anger is quite the right response to all this, but it certainly gives one pause for thought.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[lawrocket 3]

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Considering the sheer amount of lying and false information that theists (mostly christian theists) propagte about atheists (like the often repeated lie that we are trying to ban all mention of religion in public as repeated by Lawrocket in this thread), anger is, in my mind, a completely rational response.

You misrepresent what I stated. I wrote that the there are "extremists" on both sides. But that for every Newdow, there are thousands of other atheists who are not out there trying to elimate all mention of God.

Unless you, Tink, are one of those trying to ban all mention of God you are most certainly NOT the .1 percent of atheists trying to do so. In other words, there are comparatively very few Newdows. Much like there are very few Robertsons.

Newdow and Robertson, howvever, have gotten a lot fo press. Thus, many view them as typical of atheists or Christians.

By the way, I am atheist. And Newdow is an asshole who doesn't speak for me. I see him as NO different whatsoever from Robertson, except the side he is arguing.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DSE 5]

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[ For every Pat Robertson - bothered by every possible sin out there - there are thousands of Steveorinos who counsel those who ask for his counsel and proselytize nobody - except when asked. .

I guess I live in a different world. For every SteveOrino, there are thousands of Pat Robertsons.
Were there "thousands of SteveOrinos for every one Pat Robertson," this discussion likely wouldn't be taking place at all.
Who has experienced an atheist knocking on their door to tell them how miserable their life is and how badly they need a non-belief system? Contrasted by at least once a month, a missionary from one theist religion or another knocks at our door.

[jakee 1,594]

I don't understand why anyone would be angry over what happened several hundred years ago. Can't change the past by getting mad at it.

Quite a lot of the shit that Big Religion tries to pull in the modern world pisses me off though.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[maadmax 0]

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I don't understand why anyone would be angry over what happened several hundred years ago. Can't change the past by getting mad at it.

Quite a lot of the shit that Big Religion tries to pull in the modern world pisses me off though

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For once I agree with you. Although I am more saddened than angry at the damage caused by religions. The Bible is very clear that many would come and corrupt the message presented there. I have often wondered what Jesus would say about many of the Christian religions in existence today. But the error of some does not negate the Truth.

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[Hausse 0]

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[ For every Pat Robertson - bothered by every possible sin out there - there are thousands of Steveorinos who counsel those who ask for his counsel and proselytize nobody - except when asked. .

I guess I live in a different world. For every SteveOrino, there are thousands of Pat Robertsons.
Were there "thousands of SteveOrinos for every one Pat Robertson," this discussion likely wouldn't be taking place at all.
Who has experienced an atheist knocking on their door to tell them how miserable their life is and how badly they need a non-belief system? Contrasted by at least once a month, a missionary from one theist religion or another knocks at our door.

Hm the problem with going door to door as an atheist is that we have nothing to sell that's nicer than all the theist religions. It stinks to just be dead in the end, to not have any higher importance and that there is no big guy that loves you. I'd say the fact that religion offers all of those things is responsible for their success. And I mean who would want the truth if religion is so much nicer?

[lawrocket 3]

Once a month? Sounds about right.

Take a look at church parking lots on Sundays. If you've only got once a month, then it would indicate that thousands of other per month are not knocking.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DSE 5]

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[
Hm the problem with going door to door as an atheist is that we have nothing to sell that's nicer than all the theist religions.

I dunno...I kind of appreciate the guy that comes to the door with steaks, and I appreciate the guy that comes from Swanns (they have the cool little mini-corn dogs that I really like). What I don't appreciate is the JW's, the Mormons, and the BA's that come by. Had one just yesterday, she was trying to sell me a load of stupid (claiming the earth was only 5000 years old).
It's not nearly as angering as it is amusing, but eventually the humor wears off and disgust set in. Disgust turns to anger.
Different side of the discussion; our fulfillment partner of 7 years was recently bought out by a very fucked-up parent company that is hard-core Xtian. They informed us they could no longer fulfill a book we publish on the art of film-making, because:
A-the book has the word "fuck" in it as part of a descriptive script dialog.
B-There is a DVD in the back of the book that contains a highly suggestive, although not nude, sex scene.

Therefore, we had to find a new fulfillment house, pay for shipping of 10k books to a new fulfillment house, and now decide we need to do with the remaining 90 products we have in fulfillment that *do* meet their standards.

[Amazon 7]

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Therefore, we had to find a new fulfillment house, pay for shipping of 10k books to a new fulfillment house, and now decide we need to do with the remaining 90 products we have in fulfillment that *do* meet their standards.

Never forget... god has given man to do right or to do wrong...CHOICE.. and judge not lest ye be judged.

You should choose to go with a company that CHOOSES to not be hypocritical about the teachings in the book. You can judge the hard core types to not be following their own teachings.. case closed.

[DSE 5]

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Therefore, we had to find a new fulfillment house, pay for shipping of 10k books to a new fulfillment house, and now decide we need to do with the remaining 90 products we have in fulfillment that *do* meet their standards.

Never forget... god has given man to do right or to do wrong...CHOICE.. and judge not lest ye be judged.

You should choose to go with a company that CHOOSES to not be hypocritical about the teachings in the book. You can judge the hard core types to not be following their own teachings.. case closed.

You entirely missed the point. For 7 years, this company did not judge our products. Due to change in ownership, we now are faced with at least 8500.00 in losses due to THEIR change of face, not ours. Just because *they* got religion should not mean that my business has to suffer as a result.
In this particular case, their conversion is likely going to end them up in court, as we're not the only client they've forced to comply with their new-found godliness.
I realize that if you don't own a business, the cost of moving dozens of palettes of product isn't easily comprehensible. I also realize that the inconvenience is seemingly small.
But it's not. And it's not a cost I should have to bear simply because "they found God." "Finding God" needs to carry it's own responsibilities and weight.