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jcd11235 0
QuoteThe US ought to be the most free, or right up there, given our Constitution, but sadly is not.
Agreed.
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What he said. "Best" is too subjective to merit any sort of serious discussion.
"Freest" is slightly more objective, but not much, and I don't think anyone is making the argument that the USA is the freest country in the world anyhow.
Blues,
Dave
"Freest" is slightly more objective, but not much, and I don't think anyone is making the argument that the USA is the freest country in the world anyhow.
Blues,
Dave
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Quote
Another point of view, a bit different:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4020523.stm
So, off to Dublin?
Again, the article and Economist magazine (as far as I could find) shows nowmethodforwhich they came up with their data. I would however love to go back to Dublin, had a wonderful time there. (Shout out to all my homies at the IPC
) Great craic.
The article is very right in talking about some of the recent economic boom out there(Celtic Tiger). It reall shows out there how far the country has come given the centuries of slump. Damn Unionists.
-Simon
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Quote"Freest," while not absolutely quantitative, is much more so than "best," and I offered quantitative evidence supporting my assertion that the US is not more free than all of the countries
You offered quantitative evidence that the US has a higher prison population than other countries. What this has to do with "freedom" is beside the point somewhat.
This is because "freedom" is itself subjective. Freedom for the sheep means death to the wolf, and vice versa.
Plenty of countries enjoy more of certain freedoms than we in the US do. And the US has more of many more freedoms than do these other countries.
There are qualitative comparisons. For example, take a pickup truck. Is that pickup truck as heavy as the line is long for Space Mountain? The truck is heavy, but plenty of things are much heavier. The line as Space Mountain is long, but not as long Katella Avenue.
These are comparisons of qualitative things. Apples and oranges ARE comparable - they are more similar than not similar.
Which is better? An apple or an orange? That's for the individual to decide.
To reiterate - you are NOT wrong. Nor am I. We just put different weights on things and value things differently.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
jakee 1,596
QuotePlenty of countries enjoy more of certain freedoms than we in the US do. And the US has more of many more freedoms than do these other countries.
That sounds suspiciously like a definite statement, which would somewhat undermine your wider point
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
nerdgirl 0
QuoteNot one of them could protect itself from a foreign invasion, and would come crying for military and financial help from the U.S. to repel the intruders. They give us "the finger" until they need us, and our guns.
[playing devil’s advocate]
Are all y’all implicitly advocating that the US play the ‘world’s policeman’? Take a more active role as such?
Who do you imagine invading Vatican City, San Marino, or Monaco?
And do you doubt the efficacy of San Marino’s Crossbow Corps? [big-'ol-silly]-
“Although once at the heart of San Marino’s army, the Crossbow Corps is now an entirely ceremonial force of about 80 volunteer soldiers. The Crossbow Corps since 1295 has provided demonstrations of crossbow shooting at festivals. Its uniform is medieval in design, and although it is a statutory military unit, it has no actual military function today.”
[/devil’s advocate]
The analysis wasn’t for “best country;” it was for “most stable and prosperous nation.” The latter must have been per capita. Speculate it’s for advising on investments or insurance risks.
Might it be easier to be stable and prosperous when a state is small & homogenous? Monaco isn’t known for its exports of durable or consumer goods (or missile components
) or intellectual prowess, but from an economic perspective, they’ve got a great, stable business plan.
I’m not sure how Jane’s measured “stability.”
Gibraltar is a contested British territory. Altho’ I’m not sure the likelihood of the UK going to war with Spain over a small island … uh … wait … nevermind …
More importantly: One could build a very strong argument that the prosperity and global technical & innovation leadership of US is based on the (controlled) instability that our entrepreneurial capitalist system fosters.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
jcd11235 0
QuoteYou offered quantitative evidence that the US has a higher prison population than other countries. What this has to do with "freedom" is beside the point somewhat.
I don't believe it is beside the point at all. Most of the people in our prisons are there due to unjust drug laws. Many of those are there for possession, a victimless crime. Others are there for crimes that had victims, but would most likely not have been committed if the War On Drugs did not exist. Exorbitant prices and unpredictable supply due to the legal status of recreational drugs do far more harm than the drugs themselves.
Drugs laws certainly aren't the only laws inhibiting freedom in the US (they just imprison the most people).
Take gambling, for instance. Here in Florida, one can hold a home poker game, provided there is no more than $20 in any given pot. That effectively places a $20 total for the buy in of all the players in order to remain legal.
How about prostitution? Why is consensual sex between two adults illegal just because money changes hands? Is that somehow worse than some guy spending that money buying drinks for an unsuspecting lady until she is drunk enough to consent to sex with someone she probably would not sleep with if she were sober?
Why is it illegal for women to go topless in public virtually everywhere in the US? Why are fines imposed on people for saying "fuck" on (public airwave) television, but the same channels are free to air acting involving murder and violence in their broadcasts.
Why is it illegal to copy an encrypted DVD if the material on the DVD is in the public domain?
Why are there so many places in the US where skateboarding is illegal?
The list goes on and on. Heck, there are some people that even think we should have legislation to prohibit kids from wearing sagging pants.
QuoteThis is because "freedom" is itself subjective. Freedom for the sheep means death to the wolf, and vice versa.
I can understand laws against actions that result in harming others. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about victimless crimes and crimes that have victims but would have been victimless actions without prohibitive legislation.
QuotePlenty of countries enjoy more of certain freedoms than we in the US do. And the US has more of many more freedoms than do these other countries.
Among developed nations, I don't believe the US rank very high in terms of freedom.
QuoteThere are qualitative comparisons. For example, take a pickup truck. Is that pickup truck as heavy as the line is long for Space Mountain? The truck is heavy, but plenty of things are much heavier. The line as Space Mountain is long, but not as long Katella Avenue.
Surely you're not trying to imply that using per capita imprisonment as a metric of freedom is even remotely close to trying to compare mass and length.
QuoteThese are comparisons of qualitative things. Apples and oranges ARE comparable - they are more similar than not similar.
Which is better? An apple or an orange? That's for the individual to decide.
Mass and length are both quantitative, but comparing the two is still non-sensical. Apples and oranges can be compared both quantitatively (Which weighs more, this apple or this orange?) and qualitatively (Which tastes better, this apple or this orange?). The quantitative comparisons are objective, while the qualitative comparisons are subjective.
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nerdgirl 0
QuoteQuoteQuotefreest nations in the world.
Such things as "best" and "freest" are qualitative statements that are mere "puffery." They aren't objectively verifiable by their own nature.
"Freest," while not absolutely quantitative, is much more so than "best," ...
Freedom House does the highly-regarded, annual index of Freedom in the World.
The criteria used are:
PR: Political Rights
CL: Civil Liberties
Status: F-Free; PF-Partly Free; NF-Not Free
Sub-Categories: Political Rights
A: Electoral Process
B: Political Pluralism and Participation
C: Functioning of Government
Sub-Categories: Civil Liberties
D: Freedom of Expression and Belief
E: Associational and Organizational Rights
F: Rule of Law
G: Personal Autonomy and Individual Rights
I don't recall specific rankings, rather categories.
(And yes, the USA is considered "Free.")
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
Quote
(And yes, the USA is considered "Free.")
Why do Americans always insist on that simple word "free"? It's an implicitness in nearly all [Western] nations and covers all in one: Personal freedom and protection of an individual within the/as well as a society itself according to standard guidelines of that country, known as laws.
I feel free
- to move my a** wherever I wanna go to - provided, that country of my choice opens its borders for me
;
- to complain about the idiots ruling my country and
- to vote next time for another idiot,
- to ...
- to ...
- to ...
Just refer to your post above.
And that's standard here and in most countries I know of. So, what's new in "beeing free"?? It's just a basic law.
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JohnMitchell 16
The best countries are the ones in which you can own guns.
BTW, I know guns are allowed in France and Italy. I've certainly visited gun shops there. In fact, I was amazed to see rifles with silencers for sale just outside of Paris. I guess it's considered more polite to shoot quietly. I sure wish I had such easy access to suppressors for my firearms. That's a Class 2 device in this country, not federally illegal, but very expensive to license.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Guns are not the problem in this country. It's our society and culture that keeps breeding violent criminals. Ted Kennedy's car is still more dangerous than my firearms.
I'm trying to learn english, really I am!
. . =(_8^(1)
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