Racism & Obama's Speech on March 18th, 2008

[skybytch 273]

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What other people have to do to accomplish the same thing really doesn't matter to me.

It does matter to me. I don't think it's right that some people have to work harder to not get as far, especially when it's not their fault (sorry folks, nobody chooses to be born into poverty or to attend substandard schools with violence issues...).

Don't you want things to be easier for your kid than they were for you? Why not apply that desire to other people's kids too?

Or are we so selfish that we really, honestly don't give a shit that what our society calls success appears completely out of reach to a large percentage of our population... as long as we get ours?

[TheAnvil 0]

Interesting. What a large thread this has generated. Sign of a good speech. Couple of comments:

- The Reverend Wright is a racist - just like Al $harpton, Je$$e Jack$on and Farrakhan. That being said, I'm glad Obama stood by his friend. You can disagree with somebody and still be their friend.
- All you left wingers who have slammed conservatives for speaking @ Bob Jones University - think about the current dialogue over Obama & Wright. Speech vs long time association. Now look in the mirror and say 'hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite' for a while unless you recant slamming coservatives for making a speech or two at BJU - unless you're also slamming Obama for his association w/Rev Wright. Hope you're rethinking and won't slam Mr. Obama for his friendship with this fellow.
- "his time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn't look like you might take your job; it's that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit." - what a dumbfuck. Corporations EXIST for profit. Dumbass.
- I don't like the term 'black community' nor the term 'white community'. It's self identification by race that's a problem.
- I don't like Obama's politics, but this wasn't overall a bad speech I would say. Not very deep, but it played well to its intended audience and he seemed to orate it quite eloquently. Haven't paid much attention to this stuff from over here, but this caught my eye.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

Boortz, who doesn't like Bill O'Reilly, had a good commentary about race:

"Last night on the "Talking Points" segment of his show O'Reilly was talking about Obama's speech and the racial dialogue in this country. O'Reilly said that we are never going to be able to engage in a constructive dialogue on race in this country as long as there are so many bogus charges of racism. He's right. Whites in America know that they can't engage in any honest dialogue on racial matters because there will always be some race-baiter out there who is going to start yelling racism. Whenever you say anything of a critical nature about a black person in this country ... whether you're criticizing actions or beliefs ... you can bet your last dollar that somewhere someone is going to start yelling "racist" in your face. Better just to keep your mouth shut and go about your business.

This is something I have been ranting about for 15 years. Yes ... we have racial difficulties in this country. Frankly, I don't think that there is any well in hell for people of different races and cultures to live together without some degree of friction. I know several bi-racial couples. These people love each other, yet their relationship is not completely free of bumps in the road caused by their differences. Fact of life ... not going to completely go away.

Racial difficulties can be caused by racism, to be sure. They can also be caused by bigotry, prejudice and simple misunderstandings. If you try to address the problem of bigotry by identifying it as racism ... you're getting nowhere. But try to expand the conversation to cover all of these elements and what do you get? You get called a racist.

And let's not forget the element of culturalism. Now there's a word you don't hear often. This would be because it is far more permissible to discuss race, though you will certainly be branded a racist, than it is to discuss culture.

Let's just look at the crime rate in this country. There is no legitimate challenge to the fact that young black men commit violent crimes in this country in greater proportion than do young white men. Now does anyone with any logical thinking ability at all actually think this disparate crime rate is due to the color of one' skin? Is there something in the genetic makeup of a young black man that makes him want to pull his sweatshirt up over his head and rob a convenience store or kill a young college coed? Hardly. The propensity to follow a life of crime comes from the culture you were raised in ... not the amount of light that reflects off your skin. And don't give me this poverty nonsense either. There were times in this country when young blacks lived in poverty far more severe than anything experienced today ... yet the predilection to crime was not there.

Do you know why we can't discuss culture in this country? Because culture can be overcome, that's why. A person can overcome their culture, but not their skin color. Once it is understood that a person's behavior is based more on cultural influences they can overcome than on a skin color they can't change the victimhood disappears. Victimhood is a cherished status in this country ... something not given up freely."


Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Lindsey 0]

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What other people have to do to accomplish the same thing really doesn't matter to me.

It does matter to me. I don't think it's right that some people have to work harder to not get as far, especially when it's not their fault (sorry folks, nobody chooses to be born into poverty or to attend substandard schools with violence issues...).

Don't you want things to be easier for your kid than they were for you? Why not apply that desire to other people's kids too?

Or are we so selfish that we really, honestly don't give a shit that what our society calls success appears completely out of reach to a large percentage of our population... as long as we get ours?

Well, in saying it "doesn't matter to me," I mean that I don't care that some people have it easier than me or that some people have it harder than me....that to me, doing what I have to do is what's important. Not that I don't care about others' hardships or that I don't care about social issues.

While it's crystal clear that social issues play a huge role in how easily people succeed in life, I'm not sure there's a great way to make up for it. Inequalities are a part of life. I think the best we can do is to work towards overcoming racism, classisms, poverty, etc. Those are the appropriate goals. I DON'T think it's appropriate to try to compensate for these things by falsely trying to level the playing field. I believe that by giving folks the message that it's too hard for this person or that person to make it in life because (s)he's black, or female, or poor only sends that person and others in her situation the message that she's not capable because she's black, or female, or poor. People, regardless of the relative difficulty of it, CAN make it even though some may have to work harder than others.

Other people's kids ARE my kid in many ways. My kid comes from a single-parent home, and he lives in rural Arkansas, for heaven's sake. You ever checked out our public schools???? Think he or I, either one, have had nearly the access to education that y'all out in Cali do???? We grow up with teachers who can't form a correct sentence. Really. I, personally, finished high school without knowing how to write a simple essay and was absolutely overwhelmed my first semester in college at University of Florida. I had to work TWICE as hard as my classmates to pass just about EVERYTHING. But eventually I caught up, almost.

To me, it makes more sense for me to work toward improving our educational system than it does for me to expect the Ivy League schools to lower their standards to accommodate people from rural Arkansas. I want my child to understand that he may be at a disadvantage educationally because of teachers like Ms Shipp (one of his teachers this year with a BS who isn't certified....and in my opinion is dumber than dirt). I want him to take from that that he has to WORK harder, not that he needs a hand up because of his educational disadvantage. I say the same thing for being female, or black, or poor.

I do want to qualify my statements about a hand up, though. There are programs in place that I think are helpful and that I'm glad are there. Student loans, Pell grants, scholarships that may favor a person because of one social situation or another, work-study programs, and the like are great, imho. These types of programs give folks a way to succeed in college once they've made it there on their own merit. Making it there (whether it's college or something else) on your own merit is what shouldn't be compromised, I believe.

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Royd 0]

What other people have to do to accomplish the same thing really doesn't matter to me.

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It does matter to me. I don't think it's right that some people have to work harder to not get as far, especially when it's not their fault (sorry folks, nobody chooses to be born into poverty or to attend substandard schools with violence issues...).

The problem with that mentality is showing up in society today. We have ten year old kids who weigh 200lb. and couldn't walk a 1/4 mile, and would throw a fit if they had to. We now have young adults who couldn't balance a checkbook or add a single column of numbers, all because their parents want them to have an easier life.
Another problem with everyone driving a Porche and living in a condo by the beach is that there's noone left to pick up the garbage.
The fact is, that we've all been blessed with different talents, gifts,and drives. It's up to each one of us to look inside ourselves and decide that we are going to make the most of what we've been given.

I see a guy at the corner of I-10 and US301 with a sign,everyday. Apparently, he's doing a good job and happy doing it. I don't see him throwing rocks or spitting at passing cars and trucks.

[likearock 2]

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Whites in America know that they can't engage in any honest dialogue on racial matters because there will always be some race-baiter out there who is going to start yelling racism. Whenever you say anything of a critical nature about a black person in this country ... whether you're criticizing actions or beliefs ... you can bet your last dollar that somewhere someone is going to start yelling "racist" in your face. Better just to keep your mouth shut and go about your business.

This is something I have been ranting about for 15 years. Yes ... we have racial difficulties in this country. Frankly, I don't think that there is any well in hell for people of different races and cultures to live together without some degree of friction. I know several bi-racial couples. These people love each other, yet their relationship is not completely free of bumps in the road caused by their differences. Fact of life ... not going to completely go away.

Racial difficulties can be caused by racism, to be sure. They can also be caused by bigotry, prejudice and simple misunderstandings. If you try to address the problem of bigotry by identifying it as racism ... you're getting nowhere. But try to expand the conversation to cover all of these elements and what do you get? You get called a racist.

And let's not forget the element of culturalism. Now there's a word you don't hear often. This would be because it is far more permissible to discuss race, though you will certainly be branded a racist, than it is to discuss culture.

Let's just look at the crime rate in this country. There is no legitimate challenge to the fact that young black men commit violent crimes in this country in greater proportion than do young white men. Now does anyone with any logical thinking ability at all actually think this disparate crime rate is due to the color of one' skin? Is there something in the genetic makeup of a young black man that makes him want to pull his sweatshirt up over his head and rob a convenience store or kill a young college coed? Hardly. The propensity to follow a life of crime comes from the culture you were raised in ... not the amount of light that reflects off your skin. And don't give me this poverty nonsense either. There were times in this country when young blacks lived in poverty far more severe than anything experienced today ... yet the predilection to crime was not there.

Do you know why we can't discuss culture in this country? Because culture can be overcome, that's why. A person can overcome their culture, but not their skin color. Once it is understood that a person's behavior is based more on cultural influences they can overcome than on a skin color they can't change the victimhood disappears. Victimhood is a cherished status in this country ... something not given up freely."

An excellent analysis and worth repeating. Obama, if he truly wants to get to an America that is "post-racial", would be wise to pick up on it. He could be the the poster child for how culture, not race determines the quality of life. BTW, consider what your reaction would be had I called him a poster boy. In spite of the fact that poster boy is a legitimate, non-pejorative term, I have no doubt that the PC police would label that as racist.

[PLFXpert 0]

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These types of programs give folks a way to succeed in college once they've made it there on their own merit.

Absolutely!

I support a local charity which provides scholarships to at-risk & underprivileged students. Qualifying students receive private tuition grants that allow them & their families to choose an approved school of their choice.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[skybytch 273]

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Making it there (whether it's college or something else) on your own merit is what shouldn't be compromised, I believe.

I guess that's where we disagree then. I think that making it through college should be on your own merit; if you don't do the work you don't get a degree, if you don't keep the grades up you don't continue to get financial aid, etc.

But getting into college in the first place... that should be easy.

I don't think I've suggested that any school (or business or whatever) lower their standards for anybody.

[PLFXpert 0]

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I don't think it's right that some people have to work harder...especially when it's not their fault (sorry folks, nobody chooses to be born into...Or are we so selfish that we really, honestly don't give a shit that what our society calls success appears completely out of reach

Marlee Matlin is doing amazing on Dancing with the Stars. (I admit I only saw a clip, but it was GOOOOOOD!)

Success is not out of reach, sometimes it's triumph over obstacles.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[mnealtx 0]

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we disagree then. I think that making it through college should be on your own merit; if you don't do the work you don't get a degree, if you don't keep the grades up you don't continue to get financial aid, etc.

But getting into college in the first place... that should be easy.

I don't think I've suggested that any school (or business or whatever) lower their standards for anybody.

You're contradicting yourself. Why should someone who hasn't done the work to QUALIFY for college get an easy pass in? That type of thing is EXACTLY why we have graduating seniors that can't read beyond a 6th grade level.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706