Obama is an outright LIAR

[lawrocket 3]

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umm Politician = Liar

I am sorry that's not entirely true.

Politician = Professional Liar

Much more accurate.

Politicians are scum

I'd be sick of them moving in on my lawyer territory, but since most of them are lawyers...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skydyvr 0]

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But for me (and for most people I think) the people in the church, and the community it forms, are more important than what the guy in the funny robes says.

Certainly, but in this case the pastor is a bit extreme. Imagine you attended a mostly white church, and the pastor there set about railing about how black folks are oppressing our nation with their crime and drugs. I bet you'd walk out of there very quickly.

For me, and probably most, the impact of this event will be determined by exactly what can or cannot be proven about what Obama knew. We do want to know Obama's true character, right?

. . =(_8^(1)

[kelpdiver 2]

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But for me (and for most people I think) the people in the church, and the community it forms, are more important than what the guy in the funny robes says.

Certainly, but in this case the pastor is a bit extreme. Imagine you attended a mostly white church, and the pastor there set about railing about how black folks are oppressing our nation with their crime and drugs. I bet you'd walk out of there very quickly.

Not Bill Cosby. He'd be shouting out the AMENs.

Unlike the Bush Cabinet, people at a church can disagree on matters without having to sever ties.

This seems as big a non story as the remarks about how OBama wouldn't be here as a white man. This is the price of most states jumping to Jan/Feb and leaving a long trail of almost nothing to the convention. Other than harping more on Clinton keeping her tax return private as long as she can, what else can we talk about? His/her choice in business suit makers? Shoe brands?

[skydyvr 0]

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. . . what else can we talk about? His/her choice in business suit makers? Shoe brands?

Necessary changes to Air Force One?

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,120]

>but in this case the pastor is a bit extreme.

Tell me if you think these preachers' statements are extreme:

=====
Damn you rich! You already have your compensation.
Damn you who are well-fed! You will know hunger.
Damn you who laugh now! You will weep and grieve.
Damn you when everybody speaks well of you!
=====
We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.
=====


>For me, and probably most, the impact of this event will be determined
>by exactly what can or cannot be proven about what Obama knew. We do
>want to know Obama's true character, right?

If "we" means most people - no, they don't.

Most republicans couldn't give a flying f**k about what his character is. They'll just go on and on about it, saying "it's all about character!" - until something else comes up, when it will switch to "it's all about integrity!" or "it's all about tolerance!" or whatever is currently sticking to the wall of public opinion. And they will say things like "you know, I might have voted for him (which proves I am NOT racist) but now I won't, which just proves I have high moral standards."

If he gets the nomination, likewise most democrats won't care what his "true character" is. They'll be singing his praises because the alternative is (in their mind) worse. They'll defend anything he says or does reflexively, as reflexively as the republicans will defend their own.

Want to know Obama's "true character?" Read his books. Read his past speeches. Look at his voting record. Those are far better places to learn about how he thinks than trying to dissect what a preacher said in his church years ago.

[PLFXpert 0]

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This seems as big a non story as the remarks about how OBama wouldn't be here as a white man.

I've been agreeing with you all the time, lately. Thank God, for this!

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[skydyvr 0]

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=====
Damn you rich! You already have your compensation.
Damn you who are well-fed! You will know hunger.
Damn you who laugh now! You will weep and grieve.
Damn you when everybody speaks well of you!
=====
We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.
=====

I know that preacher! He had a bit more authority to say those kinds of things than the average bear.

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Most republicans couldn't give a flying f**k about what his character is. They'll just go on and on about it, saying "it's all about character!" - until something else comes up, when it will switch to "it's all about integrity!" or "it's all about tolerance!" or whatever is currently sticking to the wall of public opinion. And they will say things like "you know, I might have voted for him (which proves I am NOT racist) but now I won't, which just proves I have high moral standards."

If he gets the nomination, likewise most democrats won't care what his "true character" is. They'll be singing his praises because the alternative is (in their mind) worse. They'll defend anything he says or does reflexively, as reflexively as the republicans will defend their own.

Very fair and true assessment.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,120]

>I know that preacher! He had a bit more authority to say those kinds of
>things than the average bear.

Well, those are quotes from two preachers, actually. Both roundly condemned for their opinions in their day, and called every sort of name you can imagine. Indeed, they were hated far more than this Wright character; both were killed for their beliefs.

Yet both were, in my opinion, worth listening to.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Want to know Obama's "true character?" Read his books. Read his past speeches. Look at his voting record. Those are far better places to learn about how he thinks than trying to dissect what a preacher said in his church years ago.

Last July is not years ago..is it Bill?

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Report: Obama Was In Attendance For Pastor's Racially Charged Sermon

Barack Obama responded Friday to the reports (here and elsewhere) regarding his pastor's anti-American, racially divisive and profane statement from the pulpit by saying he wasn't very familiar with those statements:

"I wasn't in church during the time that these statements were made. I did not hear such incendiary language myself, personally. Either in conversations with him or when I was in the pew, he always preached the social gospel. ... If I had heard them repeated, I would have quit. ... If I thought that was the repeated tenor of the church, then I wouldn’t feel comfortable there."


Obama even went on Foxnews and did an interview with Major Garrett. Obama, in my opinion, was terrible and Garrett was on his game. You can read and view the interview here. Fox's Garrett pinned Obama down and left little credibilty in Obama's denials. Obama acknowledged that he frequently donated to the church, was a regular attendee and that Wright married Barack and Michelle and baptized Obama's children (Wright also blessed his house). Obama's main defense is that Wright is retiring and it's no longer an issue. And he was careful to leave himself some "wiggle room" on what he actually knew about Wright's beliefs:

Garrett: So quick yes or no, if you had heard [the outrageous statements] in person you would have quit [the church].
Obama : If I had heard them repeated, I would've quit.

NewsMax Reporter Says "Obama Was There"
Note the use of the word "repeated," because we already have NewsMax reporting that one if its freelance writers was in attendance at the church last July with Obama when Pastor Wright continued his anti-American, racial diatribe. Obama didn't raise an objection:
In his sermon that day, Wright tore into America, referring to the “United States of White America” and lacing his sermon with expletives as Obama listened. Hearing Wright’s attacks on his own country, Obama had the opportunity to walk out, but [NewsMax's reporter] said the senator sat in his pew and nodded in agreement.

More on Barack and the pastor from NewsMax archives here -- a story from last summer. You can also read a year-old Rolling Stone article originally entitled "The Racial Roots of Barack Obama" (renamed since) that details much of Wright's controversial style. ABC news' Jake Tapper questions Obama's "I wasn't there" defense. Tapper cites a New York Times article from March 2007 in which the Obama campaign disinvited Wright from giving an invocation because of the campaign's concerns about Wright's statements. The NYT quotes Wright as saying that Obama personally explained the disinvite this way: “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”

This article in National Review calls this "the worst crisis the Obama campaign has faced." More in NR here. Bill Kristol in NYTimes. WND on how Obama's church is suddenly cleaning up its website.

http://www.firesociety.com/blog/100/ElliottBlog/?src=111

[labrys 0]

So.. where does that sync with the fact that Obama was actually in Miami during that sermon?

Edit to link back to this (again)

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/17/report-places-obama-at-controversial-july-07-wright-sermon-official-schedule-places-him-in-miami/

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Barack Obama issued a firm denial Monday to a report that he was in church in Chicago last July when his controversial pastor delivered an anti-white sermon.

Doubts were cast on the story Monday as records showed the Democratic presidential contender was in Miami that day.

On the “fact check” portion of Obama’s campaign Web site, the campaign states: “Fact: Obama Did Not Attend Services on July 22.”

Click here to see the denial on Obama’s Web site.

Reports circulated over the weekend that Obama had attended the fiery sermon that day by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. But a copy of Obama’s schedule viewed by FOX News as well as video of Obama speaking appear to place him in Miami that day at a convention of the National Council of La Raza.

Owned by Remi #?

[bodypilot90 0]

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So.. where does that sync with the fact that Obama was actually in Miami during that sermon?

oh I think he not only was there, but you don't go to someone's church for 20 years enless you are in agreement with the pastor. Is Obama a racist? Time will tell....

[labrys 0]

So what part of "he was in Miami" isn't clear?

Owned by Remi #?

[Lindsey 0]

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So.. where does that sync with the fact that Obama was actually in Miami during that sermon?

oh I think he not only was there, but you don't go to someone's church for 20 years enless you are in agreement with the pastor. Is Obama a racist? Time will tell....

I'm not sure that's true. I've gone to the Methodist church my whole life. I'm a couple weeks shy of my 42nd birthday. Not sure I even believe in God in any way. I want my child to grow up in the church, though. That way he'll know what he's making a choice about when, someday, he decides whether he wants it to be a part of his child(ren)'s lives. There are some pastors that come through whom I really see eye-to-eye with. Others I just think are plain stupid. I tend to sit there thinking of other things while they talk....who KNOWS what was said during a sermon that I'd deny hearing....because I just wasn't interested.

Anyway, I think this whole issue is a bit of a waste of mind space, so I'll try not to dwell on it any longer...lol.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[mnealtx 0]

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That makes anyone else that is corrupt ok huh?

Seems to work for mnealtx.

Every time a gay republican is outed... he dredges up some 30 year old shit that Democrats do it to.

Look in the mirror lately, m'dear? Denigrating all due to the actions of one seems to be more *your* forte, not mine.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Um, dude? None of the Pastor's quotes in your CBS/AP link are the same as the quotes from Obama's book in your first post.

So, why is he a liar?

Did you not read the quote taken from his book?

He quotes the same sermon that the second link highlights.

Not only did he hear that sermon, he quoted from it in his book.

[labrys 0]

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Not only did he hear that sermon, he quoted from it in his book.

The sermon he quoted in his book is not the sermon from this past July.

Owned by Remi #?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Can you be certain that that particular sermon was never given prior to that?

Seems that the preacher in question has been doing sermons along those lines for quite some time.

Unless you are willing to believe it only happened once, and that Obama has never heard such a sermon.

[Gawain 0]

It's common sense dude. You won't convince me that as a member of a congregation for 20+ years, are married by, and have your children baptized by your pastor, that you are "unaware" of the rantings of your spiritual guide.

As to the outright lying part, well, that covers the spectrum for them all. It's a matter of finding the real truth behind the rhetoric.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rushmc 23]

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Not only did he hear that sermon, he quoted from it in his book.

The sermon he quoted in his book is not the sermon from this past July.

Wow, then he said it more than once and Obama heard it AT LEAST once

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright was an early concern, Obama aide admits
After he moved to Chicago in the mid-1980s to work as a community organizer, Barack Obama forged close ties with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright -- joining the pastor’s Trinity United Church of Christ in 1988 and using the topic of a Wright sermon, "the audacity of hope," as the title of his most recent best-selling book.

But more than a year ago -- long before some of Wright’s more incendiary sermons became hot-button videos on YouTube, forcing Obama to publicly renounce his pastor last week -- the Obama campaign had a sense that Wright's sharp tongue might spell trouble for the Illinois senator. (For a sermon sample, click on the Read more line below.)

That was the word anyway Sunday from Obama’s chief strategist, David Axelrod, who acknowledged during a conference call with reporters that Wright was disinvited ...

from Obama's official candidacy announcement on Feb. 10, 2007, in the shadow of the Old State Capitol in Springfield, Ill.

Wright had been expected to lead an invocation of some kind, but never appeared.

“There was no doubt that there was controversy surrounding him,” Axelrod said Sunday. “And we didn’t want to expose him … [or] make him the target and a distraction on a day when Sen. Obama was going to announce his candidacy.”

So if the savvy Obama campaign knew Wright was a problem a year ago, why did the Illinois senator, a parish member for two decades, wait until last week to disassociate and denounce the minister's inflammatory statements?

The topic is clearly uncomfortable for Obama and his aides, personally and politically. Axelrod's comments came only after prodding from a reporter and after he had initially suggested that Wright’s absence that day was due merely to the fact that the temperature was in the single digits.

And even as Obama has condemned some of Wright’s rhetoric and distanced himself from his longtime spiritual advisor, doing so has not been easy. Wright remained on an African American religious advisory committee for the campaign until Friday.

“Rev. Wright married him, introduced him, as he said, to the church, brought him into the church, into Christianity, baptized his children,” Axelrod said. “So this is a painful thing for him because he condemns the things Rev. Wright said, but he also knows him as a person.”

Wright has proven controversial in the past because of his association with Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who has made anti-Semitic remarks. But the controversy has grown in recent weeks with the spread of videos from Wright sermons where he condemns the United States for its foreign policy and treatment of blacks and takes on Obama’s rival for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton.

As Wright put it, “Hillary ain't never been called a nigger! Hillary has never had her people defined as non-person."

On Friday, Obama posted a message at the Huffington Post website, explaining that he had not seen such sermons in person and saying that he disagreed with them. "I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy," he wrote.

-- Peter Wallsten

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/throughout-his.html

[rushmc 23]

It is somewhat amazing to see the replies here when even many of the most left leaning TV talking heads as calling this a problem for Obama. And one response citing this is a Muslim issue?? WTF

I still think he will get the nod but the convention is going to be fun to see

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

Just curious. Are you equally outraged by McCain's acceptance of John Hagee's endorsement?
Are you equally outraged that McCain isn't planning on releasing his tax records?
Or is this simply "(R)age"?

[idrankwhat 0]

I forgot, I wanted to show you what an "outright liar" sounds like but I don't want to steal the thread.
Sorry about the lefty link but they put it together nicely.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/27/ware-mccain-iraq/

Seems that McCain learned a thing or two from Bush; if you don't like the news, make it up.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Just curious. Are you equally outraged by McCain's acceptance of John Hagee's endorsement?
Are you equally outraged that McCain isn't planning on releasing his tax records?
Or is this simply "(R)age"?

I am in complete disagreement with McCain on a great many issues.

I think that Hagee is scum, and to accept his endorsement is equally scummy.

Hildebeast is nothing to be proud of either, and that is a HUGE understatement.

The next POTUS will be one that I will not want, or be rather proud of.

Our political process is one that excludes those that truly represent the people, and those most qualified in that respect.

Thompson was far from perfect, he would readily admit it.

But the fact stands that he was a far better choice than those campaigning, unless you only believe what the media spews in the propaganda that you are made to believe.

We as a country are so lazy that we collectively will not research candidates voting records to find the answer, but rather merely listen to the shit that rolls out of their mouths.

Soundbites are greater than substance

Obama spews great rhetoric, but he will not be the great leader people dream he will be.

Hillary we know about, as we do McCain.

So tell me what would you rather have, someone that votes the constituents will, upholds the constitution, keeps their word, or someone that just tells you what you want to hear, and keeps telling us that they voted their conscience, when their conscience seems to allow a great many crimes or injustices?

[idrankwhat 0]

Nice post, I fully agree with most of it.

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So tell me what would you rather have, someone that votes the constituents will, upholds the constitution, keeps their word, or someone that just tells you what you want to hear, and keeps telling us that they voted their conscience, when their conscience seems to allow a great many crimes or injustices?

Given the limited choices that we have I'll answer your question with one of your statements.

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Hillary we know about, as we do McCain.

I'm checking out Obama's voting record. http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490