Gawain 0 #26 March 4, 2008 QuoteNO INCOME TAX? That's what the Fair Tax is. How would you expect society to work then? Purely local?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #27 March 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteNO INCOME TAX? That's what the Fair Tax is. How would you expect society to work then? Purely local? No - the Chinese and S. Koreans and Japanese just give us the money to pay for defense, highways, airports, public health facilities, etc.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 March 4, 2008 Quote Quote Quote NO INCOME TAX? That's what the Fair Tax is. How would you expect society to work then? Purely local? No - the Chinese and S. Koreans and Japanese just give us the money to pay for defense, highways, airports, public health facilities, etc. Well, if it works for campaign contributions.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #29 March 4, 2008 Quote Those of you with questions please spend the ten bucks and order the book ( or chip a few bucks in with some buddies) so you get the info directly from the authors instead of newspaper and media talking heads. Is it perfect? No, of course not but that applies to everything. Think about it, make your decision, and then pass it on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax Wikipedia has a nice page on the Fair Tax. It's not quite as long as the book, and points to opinions on both sides of the arguments. It would for sure put a bunch of accountants, and just about every IRS employee out of work. Kind of like the automobile made the biggie whip industry obsolete.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #30 March 5, 2008 Isn't Dave Ramsey the same kook who claims that to get out of debt you must tithe 20% to the church?It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 March 5, 2008 QuoteIsn't Dave Ramsey the same kook who claims that to get out of debt you must tithe 20% to the church? I recently saw something like that when I turned on the TV - my jaw dropped at the notion that if you keep your tithing, somehow it will all work out great quickly. Way to help your people in the down time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #32 March 5, 2008 Ok, so I'm not insanely remember the wrong person with the wrong concept ... TY It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #33 March 5, 2008 Why not locally? It worked for over 100 years before the IRS was installed into our life!! According to some ecomoic peeps in the late sixties our nation was ONLY in debt something like one billion through 1911, but by 1974 we were closing in on 500billion... And where are we at today with our nations debt? Getting off the gold standard was probably the next worse thing we did! It is NOT our income tax that runs this country!!! The corporate tax re; BOEING, GE, LOWES, Red Lobster, etc etc is what HELPS keep the Fed system afloat! Our congress never use to get paid muchless have a FREE ride for their perssonel healthcare for LIFE after they RETIRE/quit etc, from the political scence in DC!!! Being a senator or representive NEVER use to be a fulltime job... It was NOT suppose to be this way! I do NOT need the US GVT to withhold my SWEAT MONEY (income tax, FICA unemployment ins) and shuffle it around until I retire, I can do that myself!!! The IRS has been a "shell GAME" since it was installed upon us eversince.... The first 100+ years of America was GREAT and within the next 100, we have FALLING so far behind in EVERYTHING it should make everyones head spin! Which i believe it has or WE would not be having these conversations! Our nation started to unravel pretty much when the gvt started to stick their noses uP and in our asses... I know how we can fix it...... MORE LAWS!!NO FAIR TAX... NO FLAT TAX and certainly NO Federal INCOME TAX.... Thank you very much! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 March 5, 2008 Quote The first 100+ years of America was GREAT Unless you were black, or Chinese, or a woman, or wanted to be independent of the English and other Eurotrash. It wasn't until the turn of the century with TR that America started to approach greatness, then enjoyed the 20s and 50s and 90s post Cold War. Is this decade the decline, or just another bad decade like the 30s, or 70s? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #35 March 5, 2008 > Yer askin fur a slap!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #36 March 5, 2008 QuoteIsn't Dave Ramsey the same kook who claims that to get out of debt you must tithe 20% to the church? No. He does however advise those that do tithe to continue tithing (and the standard tithe is 10%). It's on the premise (for those that choose to follow in that faith) that the money isn't yours to begin with. He also adds the idea that if you can't make on 90%, you probably won't make it on 100%.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #37 March 5, 2008 QuoteIsn't Dave Ramsey the same kook who claims that to get out of debt you must tithe 20% to the church? he stresses the importance of giving, but he doesn't say you must do it, nor does he say %20. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #38 March 5, 2008 Quote Why not locally? It worked for over 100 years before the IRS was installed into our life!! Do you have any appreciation for: - interstate highways? - air traffic control? - environmental control? - national defense? If so, how would those things get paid for? I'm not in favor of too many things the feds do, but those few that are really needed have to get funded somehow. Anything that gets rid of the IRS is fine by me. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #39 March 5, 2008 QuoteQuotethe "Fair Tax", but I understand that Neal Boortz has written a very thorough book on it. What I do know, is that it is a National Sales Tax, based on the premise that the income tax is gone. Certain essentials are not taxed (like food and clothing). So, your lifestyle truly determines how much taxes you pay...I like the fair tax...if the 16th Amendment is repealed. Actually, according to the bill, everything is taxed. Medical costs, food, yachts. You want to keep it simple and not allow the lobbyists to exclude anything. But - the bill would set a standard level of poverty "expenditures" for each household base on the number of people in that household. And you will get a prebate (a rebate at the beginning of the month) of the tax required on that level of spending. So, no tax has to be paid on "essentials."The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #40 March 5, 2008 QuoteAnd you will get a prebate (a rebate at the beginning of the month) of the tax required on that level of spending. the government sends a check to everyone each month for their basics - how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'll tell you one thing. The Yacht lobbyists are up in arms. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,111 #41 March 5, 2008 >how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'm a liberal and I think it's even dumber than sending everyone a $1200 check for 'economic stimulus.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #42 March 5, 2008 Quote>how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'm a liberal and I think it's even dumber than sending everyone a $1200 check for 'economic stimulus.' Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #43 March 5, 2008 Quote Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus". Me neither. which is why you people better be spending it on strippers/hookers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FreeflyChile 0 #44 March 5, 2008 QuoteQuote Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus". Me neither. which is why you people better be spending it on strippers/hookers. Law school loans. WAYYYYY more obscene. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #45 March 5, 2008 Quote>how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'm a liberal and I think it's even dumber than sending everyone a $1200 check for 'economic stimulus.' I know, just wallowing in the filthy stereotypes. Go ahead, you try one. or, just apply it to liberal "politicians" and socialistic type folks ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dannydan 5 #46 March 6, 2008 I am happy to be a white man because that is what I am and who am I to argue with my creator? Nothing against other ethnicities. As far as "is this the decade of decline like the 30s or 70s".... Time will tell, but I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the WORLD as we know it so really most of these discussions are moot! There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason why anyone in our country should be without! We have and or becoming a nation of have and have nots and QUICKLY! Mainly b/c of greed (but thats been around forever).... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TankBuster 0 #47 March 6, 2008 Here's what I like about it: 1) No longer do the Feds need to know how much I make, how I spend, or how I invest. The nation was founded on that right to freedom and privacy. No more IRS, no more complexity, April 15th is just another day. As an American citizen, all the Feds need to know about me is how many people are in my home so they know how big a check to send me to cover the tax on sustenance. They'll never again go poking around in the bank looking at my statements, nor will my bank have to report anything to them about my deposit or withdrawal habits. That's the way free men are supposed to live under the original Constitution. 2) The politicians in Washington will never be able to use federal tax policy to try to influence my behavior. 3) I get to keep my entire paycheck. 4) The death of a loved one is never a taxable event. I can leave my children and my church and charities everything I haven't squandered on beer and skydiving. 5) Paying taxes is my choice. Any time I really want to buckle down and save a lot of jack for a rainy day, I can theoretically pay no tax at all. It's my choice. And - none of my investment decisions involve tax consequences. I'll never have to sell another stock to show a loss on Dec 31. 6) Illegal immigration becomes less of a problem. All of the illegals will now pay taxes. And if you're not legal, you don't get a prebate. Oh, and all the drug dealers will now pay taxes. 7) A tax increase is now very apparent to everyone. They can't hide it in the tax code. It will be political folly to raise taxes unless there is a very good reason. Remember - this plan was designed by a group of independent economists to replace income tax, and payroll tax (SS and Medicare) to be revenue neutral. They've taken into account the current rate of savings and consumption, and I'm sure a million other factors that only a geeky economist knows. What they didn't factor in was the effect of about 12 trillion in capital that has moved offshore due to the heavy burden we have placed on labor and income in this country. When that comes back there will be people who have to hide under their bed to avoid getting a good job, and our economy will be smokin'.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dannydan 5 #48 March 6, 2008 ""- interstate highways? - air traffic control? - environmental control? - national defense? >"" Of course I do! I am not some primative cave man here! But WE have all lost sight of WHAT the Feds WERE suppose to do and what IS expected from the INDIVIDUAL STATES of America... Lets take your list one at a time. """" **interstate highways? http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/interstate.cfm "Revenue from the Federal gas and other motor-vehicle user taxes was credited to the Highway Trust Fund to pay the Federal share of Interstate and all other Federal-aid highway projects. In this way, the Act guaranteed construction of all segments on a "pay-as-you-go" basis, thus satisfying one of President Eisenhower's primary requirements, namely that the program be self-financing without contributing to the Federal budget deficit." http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=how%20are%20the%20interstates%20funded&ei=UTF-8&fr=opera2 The original plan for the INTERSTATE HWY Sy. was for OUR Nat Defense. Thats cool we need to be able to have our military move on a moments notice without impediment! This ties in with your fourth in the list "National Defense" see below. **air traffic control? Ummmm how about through airline ticket sales? **environmental control? This should be done through the INDIVIDUAL States... I dont have a problem whatsoever in my state taxing me as long as the taxes raised/imposed STAY in my state and go towards the projects that they are collected for! I live in Illinois, and some 25+ years ago my state allowed the LOTTERY to commence to HELP pay for our "public school system" ALONG with our "property taxes" which is NOW state, county, and city collected... But guess what? the lottery monies and the other collected taxes from property, STILL cannot fund the education system!!! WHY?? My guess is deep politiacl pockets and too many trips to the casinos by the state reps and their families and friends etc etc etc.... argghh! on and on and on and on.... I dont think that Abe Lincoln was paid to be a state rep?? **national defense? WOW!! This is a good one! Like I said earlier, the funding for the FEDS (which the NatDef is VERY much apart of) is that the best defense against foreign aggression is the practice of non-aggression domestically and globally. Chew on that for awhile! talk about getting a headache! We are so far removed from thinking about the above statement.. But as our current reality will have it, it is mainly supported through the CORPORATE tax and contracts from companies doing BUSINESS with the USGvt.. Our individual income tax is maybe at the most 4-6% of the funding to our NatDef... GREED is our nations BIGGEST downfall! and OUR own federal, state, county and city gvts are the greediest peeps of us all! Free enterprise and capitalisim can be a good thing until the GVT starts messing with it. The MARKETPLACE can take care of itself without regualtions. EXAMPLE, you are a resturant, carpet salesmen, car salesman, plumber etc etc, and if I as well as others don't like your service, you will either change or go under and close your doors! If you are above board then you will have a healthy lifestyle of wealth.... The USGvt was IS not suppose to be this big! We were warned of this by our founding fathers! And NOW we and OUR children and their kids are WILL pay for it! It is our parents, our grandparents and great grandparents and now US that have ALLOWED these problems to creep in. So this "snowball" is so BIG that it will be virtually impossible to correct it before it rolls over this country and kills everything in its path!! God speed, BLUESKIES, SemperFi, etc etc , but I dont think so! peace and "GONE JUMPIN" :dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dannydan 5 #49 March 6, 2008 Quote Quote Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus". Me neither. which is why you people better be spending it on strippers/hookers. HEY ASSHOLE!!! What about jumpin man?edited here... Oh i get it now... strippers and hookers at the DZ! GOTCHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dannydan 5 #50 March 6, 2008 I think that I have found my running mate! 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rehmwa 2 #40 March 5, 2008 QuoteAnd you will get a prebate (a rebate at the beginning of the month) of the tax required on that level of spending. the government sends a check to everyone each month for their basics - how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'll tell you one thing. The Yacht lobbyists are up in arms. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #41 March 5, 2008 >how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'm a liberal and I think it's even dumber than sending everyone a $1200 check for 'economic stimulus.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #42 March 5, 2008 Quote>how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'm a liberal and I think it's even dumber than sending everyone a $1200 check for 'economic stimulus.' Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 March 5, 2008 Quote Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus". Me neither. which is why you people better be spending it on strippers/hookers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #44 March 5, 2008 QuoteQuote Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus". Me neither. which is why you people better be spending it on strippers/hookers. Law school loans. WAYYYYY more obscene. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 March 5, 2008 Quote>how can the liberals NOT love this plan? I'm a liberal and I think it's even dumber than sending everyone a $1200 check for 'economic stimulus.' I know, just wallowing in the filthy stereotypes. Go ahead, you try one. or, just apply it to liberal "politicians" and socialistic type folks ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #46 March 6, 2008 I am happy to be a white man because that is what I am and who am I to argue with my creator? Nothing against other ethnicities. As far as "is this the decade of decline like the 30s or 70s".... Time will tell, but I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the WORLD as we know it so really most of these discussions are moot! There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason why anyone in our country should be without! We have and or becoming a nation of have and have nots and QUICKLY! Mainly b/c of greed (but thats been around forever).... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #47 March 6, 2008 Here's what I like about it: 1) No longer do the Feds need to know how much I make, how I spend, or how I invest. The nation was founded on that right to freedom and privacy. No more IRS, no more complexity, April 15th is just another day. As an American citizen, all the Feds need to know about me is how many people are in my home so they know how big a check to send me to cover the tax on sustenance. They'll never again go poking around in the bank looking at my statements, nor will my bank have to report anything to them about my deposit or withdrawal habits. That's the way free men are supposed to live under the original Constitution. 2) The politicians in Washington will never be able to use federal tax policy to try to influence my behavior. 3) I get to keep my entire paycheck. 4) The death of a loved one is never a taxable event. I can leave my children and my church and charities everything I haven't squandered on beer and skydiving. 5) Paying taxes is my choice. Any time I really want to buckle down and save a lot of jack for a rainy day, I can theoretically pay no tax at all. It's my choice. And - none of my investment decisions involve tax consequences. I'll never have to sell another stock to show a loss on Dec 31. 6) Illegal immigration becomes less of a problem. All of the illegals will now pay taxes. And if you're not legal, you don't get a prebate. Oh, and all the drug dealers will now pay taxes. 7) A tax increase is now very apparent to everyone. They can't hide it in the tax code. It will be political folly to raise taxes unless there is a very good reason. Remember - this plan was designed by a group of independent economists to replace income tax, and payroll tax (SS and Medicare) to be revenue neutral. They've taken into account the current rate of savings and consumption, and I'm sure a million other factors that only a geeky economist knows. What they didn't factor in was the effect of about 12 trillion in capital that has moved offshore due to the heavy burden we have placed on labor and income in this country. When that comes back there will be people who have to hide under their bed to avoid getting a good job, and our economy will be smokin'.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #48 March 6, 2008 ""- interstate highways? - air traffic control? - environmental control? - national defense? >"" Of course I do! I am not some primative cave man here! But WE have all lost sight of WHAT the Feds WERE suppose to do and what IS expected from the INDIVIDUAL STATES of America... Lets take your list one at a time. """" **interstate highways? http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/interstate.cfm "Revenue from the Federal gas and other motor-vehicle user taxes was credited to the Highway Trust Fund to pay the Federal share of Interstate and all other Federal-aid highway projects. In this way, the Act guaranteed construction of all segments on a "pay-as-you-go" basis, thus satisfying one of President Eisenhower's primary requirements, namely that the program be self-financing without contributing to the Federal budget deficit." http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=how%20are%20the%20interstates%20funded&ei=UTF-8&fr=opera2 The original plan for the INTERSTATE HWY Sy. was for OUR Nat Defense. Thats cool we need to be able to have our military move on a moments notice without impediment! This ties in with your fourth in the list "National Defense" see below. **air traffic control? Ummmm how about through airline ticket sales? **environmental control? This should be done through the INDIVIDUAL States... I dont have a problem whatsoever in my state taxing me as long as the taxes raised/imposed STAY in my state and go towards the projects that they are collected for! I live in Illinois, and some 25+ years ago my state allowed the LOTTERY to commence to HELP pay for our "public school system" ALONG with our "property taxes" which is NOW state, county, and city collected... But guess what? the lottery monies and the other collected taxes from property, STILL cannot fund the education system!!! WHY?? My guess is deep politiacl pockets and too many trips to the casinos by the state reps and their families and friends etc etc etc.... argghh! on and on and on and on.... I dont think that Abe Lincoln was paid to be a state rep?? **national defense? WOW!! This is a good one! Like I said earlier, the funding for the FEDS (which the NatDef is VERY much apart of) is that the best defense against foreign aggression is the practice of non-aggression domestically and globally. Chew on that for awhile! talk about getting a headache! We are so far removed from thinking about the above statement.. But as our current reality will have it, it is mainly supported through the CORPORATE tax and contracts from companies doing BUSINESS with the USGvt.. Our individual income tax is maybe at the most 4-6% of the funding to our NatDef... GREED is our nations BIGGEST downfall! and OUR own federal, state, county and city gvts are the greediest peeps of us all! Free enterprise and capitalisim can be a good thing until the GVT starts messing with it. The MARKETPLACE can take care of itself without regualtions. EXAMPLE, you are a resturant, carpet salesmen, car salesman, plumber etc etc, and if I as well as others don't like your service, you will either change or go under and close your doors! If you are above board then you will have a healthy lifestyle of wealth.... The USGvt was IS not suppose to be this big! We were warned of this by our founding fathers! And NOW we and OUR children and their kids are WILL pay for it! It is our parents, our grandparents and great grandparents and now US that have ALLOWED these problems to creep in. So this "snowball" is so BIG that it will be virtually impossible to correct it before it rolls over this country and kills everything in its path!! God speed, BLUESKIES, SemperFi, etc etc , but I dont think so! peace and "GONE JUMPIN" :dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #49 March 6, 2008 Quote Quote Everyone? I don't think I qualify for the "stimulus". Me neither. which is why you people better be spending it on strippers/hookers. HEY ASSHOLE!!! What about jumpin man?edited here... Oh i get it now... strippers and hookers at the DZ! GOTCHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #50 March 6, 2008 I think that I have found my running mate! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
