Economic wisdom from Warren Buffet

[kallend 2,184]

www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/business/01berkshire.html?em&ex=1204520400&en=b942a9727f3abf18&ei=5087%0A

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

He is indeed a shrewd businessman. I have followed, on a microscopic-scale-comparison, a couple of his investments (BNI, etc).

I found it ironic though, that in his criticism of the public pension funding problem, he advocated higher taxes rather than reducing the promises (retirement or some in their 40s, COLA adjustments, etc), which is an abuse of public trust, and not a good steward of taxpayer dollars, he only noted that raising taxes was the solution.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

You overstate your case. Raising taxes if it is the most efficient and fair path to the public goals is not an abuse of public trust at all; it is merely not the solution you favour. I would suggest that your favoured solution is heavily biased in philosophical bent rather than hare economic analysis.

[Gawain 0]

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You overstate your case. Raising taxes if it is the most efficient and fair path to the public goals is not an abuse of public trust at all; it is merely not the solution you favour. I would suggest that your favoured solution is heavily biased in philosophical bent rather than hare economic analysis.

Oh, I agree, it is definitely a philosophic difference. However, the column was a clear observance of business trends he's been involved with, and then there's one tangent to public pensions (which are way too generous in some cases).

I will point out that not only is abuse of taxes to fatten up generous pensions (many for part-time governments), it is also bad economic policy.

I live in Kentucky, and the Commonwealth is facing this very problem right now. Unfortunately, the new governor is trying to sell expanding gambling and casinos as the solution, using barely half of the revenue for education, and the rest for who-knows-what. All they have to do is stemm the rate of growth in the spending for a few years. That is a far simpler, and arguably more effective solution than some fancy tax rewrite, along with an eye-sore of casinos marking up the landscape in remote, low income areas that border other states.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

It's observation and opinion. I understand what he is saying, but unless he owns or runs the company, it's not his place to sit in judgment. Indeed, his view is long term, but the NYT cites one year performance on his investments over the past year.

I cite his own critique at how he said his secretary paid a higher rate in taxes than he did. The thing is, if he didn't shelter his portfolio the way everyone in his hyper-wealthy bracket do, that would not be the case. I'm not criticizing him for doing so, I'm criticizing him for essentially saying, "I can afford to pay more in taxes." All he has to do is write a check to the IRS...they won't return it. Or, he can structure his compensation the same way 90% of the workforce does.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

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What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

It's observation and opinion. I understand what he is saying, but unless he owns or runs the company, it's not his place to sit in judgment. Indeed, his view is long term, but the NYT cites one year performance on his investments over the past year.

I cite his own critique at how he said his secretary paid a higher rate in taxes than he did. The thing is, if he didn't shelter his portfolio the way everyone in his hyper-wealthy bracket do, that would not be the case. I'm not criticizing him for doing so, I'm criticizing him for essentially saying, "I can afford to pay more in taxes." All he has to do is write a check to the IRS...they won't return it. Or, he can structure his compensation the same way 90% of the workforce does.

Ah, but he has an option to do that. You and I do not.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

It's observation and opinion. I understand what he is saying, but unless he owns or runs the company, it's not his place to sit in judgment. Indeed, his view is long term, but the NYT cites one year performance on his investments over the past year.

I cite his own critique at how he said his secretary paid a higher rate in taxes than he did. The thing is, if he didn't shelter his portfolio the way everyone in his hyper-wealthy bracket do, that would not be the case. I'm not criticizing him for doing so, I'm criticizing him for essentially saying, "I can afford to pay more in taxes." All he has to do is write a check to the IRS...they won't return it. Or, he can structure his compensation the same way 90% of the workforce does.

Ah, but he has an option to do that. You and I do not.

I sure do. So do you. I'm paying taxes so I don't have to later on my Roth IRA. I am also invested in tax exempt funds with my broker. Do you just use savings and CDs?

I however, will not complain about someone who is able to pay less in tax under the current system, with a government that is out of control with spending across the spectrum...including the stimulus package. When I get my money back, it's going in savings.

Under the current system, if someone is complaining that they do not pay enough tax, they should simply get out the check book, and not try to bring everyone else to their level of "misery".

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

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What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

It's observation and opinion. I understand what he is saying, but unless he owns or runs the company, it's not his place to sit in judgment. Indeed, his view is long term, but the NYT cites one year performance on his investments over the past year.

I cite his own critique at how he said his secretary paid a higher rate in taxes than he did. The thing is, if he didn't shelter his portfolio the way everyone in his hyper-wealthy bracket do, that would not be the case. I'm not criticizing him for doing so, I'm criticizing him for essentially saying, "I can afford to pay more in taxes." All he has to do is write a check to the IRS...they won't return it. Or, he can structure his compensation the same way 90% of the workforce does.

Ah, but he has an option to do that. You and I do not.

I sure do. So do you. I'm paying taxes so I don't have to later on my Roth IRA. I am also invested in tax exempt funds with my broker. Do you just use savings and CDs?

I however, will not complain about someone who is able to pay less in tax under the current system, with a government that is out of control with spending across the spectrum...including the stimulus package. When I get my money back, it's going in savings.

Under the current system, if someone is complaining that they do not pay enough tax, they should simply get out the check book, and not try to bring everyone else to their level of "misery".

I think you do not understand the options available to the extremely wealthy that you and I do not have.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gene03 0]

Good read, John.

I like Buffet, even went to one of his concerts at Alpine Valley one year.

Anyway what is he trying to infere? (or is that imply?)

American investment plans are a not too thinly veiled Ponzi scheme? Enron seemed to work very well for some folks.

We should base our investments on substance not style?

Who does he think he is?

Hell, he doesn't even have his own television show or the hair style to go with it.

How long have you lived here and you still don't know it's all about the "Image".

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[Gawain 0]

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What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

It's observation and opinion. I understand what he is saying, but unless he owns or runs the company, it's not his place to sit in judgment. Indeed, his view is long term, but the NYT cites one year performance on his investments over the past year.

I cite his own critique at how he said his secretary paid a higher rate in taxes than he did. The thing is, if he didn't shelter his portfolio the way everyone in his hyper-wealthy bracket do, that would not be the case. I'm not criticizing him for doing so, I'm criticizing him for essentially saying, "I can afford to pay more in taxes." All he has to do is write a check to the IRS...they won't return it. Or, he can structure his compensation the same way 90% of the workforce does.

Ah, but he has an option to do that. You and I do not.

I sure do. So do you. I'm paying taxes so I don't have to later on my Roth IRA. I am also invested in tax exempt funds with my broker. Do you just use savings and CDs?

I however, will not complain about someone who is able to pay less in tax under the current system, with a government that is out of control with spending across the spectrum...including the stimulus package. When I get my money back, it's going in savings.

Under the current system, if someone is complaining that they do not pay enough tax, they should simply get out the check book, and not try to bring everyone else to their level of "misery".

I think you do not understand the options available to the extremely wealthy that you and I do not have.

Yes, I do. However, unlike you, I do not resent them for having those options. And, it still does not mean we don't have options. Even with those options, their burden is higher than ours.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

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Yes, I do. However, unlike you, I do not resent them for having those options. And, it still does not mean we don't have options. Even with those options, their burden is higher than ours.

Observing, and mentioning, their options does not imply resentment, nor should you infer it. I have options that the poor and homeless don't have, and I am willing to admit it.

Remember that little irritants like the AMT came about because the very wealthy could avoid taxes altogether (and they still can to a large extent).

"We don't pay taxes; the little people pay taxes."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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Yes, I do. However, unlike you, I do not resent them for having those options. And, it still does not mean we don't have options. Even with those options, their burden is higher than ours.

Observing, and mentioning, their options does not imply resentment, nor should you infer it. I have options that the poor and homeless don't have, and I am willing to admit it.

Me too. However, that does not mean that the poor are without options either. If they have a real understanding about their situation, they have to decide to break free of their dependence on welfare, find a job 9or three) and work...

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Remember that little irritants like the AMT came about because the very wealthy could avoid taxes altogether (and they still can to a large extent).

The AMT was a response to like, a dozen wealthy people avoiding taxes in the 60s or something. Now, just about every family with an income over the mid-five-figures has to pay it. AMT is a disaster.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,132]

>I however, will not complain about someone who is able to pay less in tax under the current system . . .

At the most real and basic level, someone who pays more in taxes "supports the troops" (and indeed supports the US government) more than someone who, via various machinations and manipulations of the tax code, pays less. Those are the people who make things like our military, our roads, ATC etc possible, so they deserve at least a little encouragement.

>Under the current system, if someone is complaining that they do not
>pay enough tax, they should simply get out the check book . . .

Indeed. Yet it seems that those who are most vociferous in their support of trillion-dollar wars are the ones who most loudly insist that they should not have to pay for it.

[kallend 2,184]

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Yes, I do. However, unlike you, I do not resent them for having those options. And, it still does not mean we don't have options. Even with those options, their burden is higher than ours.

Observing, and mentioning, their options does not imply resentment, nor should you infer it. I have options that the poor and homeless don't have, and I am willing to admit it.

Me too. However, that does not mean that the poor are without options either. If they have a real understanding about their situation, they have to decide to break free of their dependence on welfare, find a job 9or three) and work...

Quote

Remember that little irritants like the AMT came about because the very wealthy could avoid taxes altogether (and they still can to a large extent).

The AMT was a response to like, a dozen wealthy people avoiding taxes in the 60s or something. Now, just about every family with an income over the mid-five-figures has to pay it. AMT is a disaster.

I have a 6 figure income and I don't have to pay it. However, I agree it needs revision.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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>I however, will not complain about someone who is able to pay less in tax under the current system . . .

At the most real and basic level, someone who pays more in taxes "supports the troops" (and indeed supports the US government) more than someone who, via various machinations and manipulations of the tax code, pays less. Those are the people who make things like our military, our roads, ATC etc possible, so they deserve at least a little encouragement.

In a strange way, I agree with what you're saying. I have no problem with paying taxes. However, the current system is designed so that those that take the time to look, will find the loopholes. Savings vehicles are full of them.

So, I will continue to work within the system as best I can, while advocating for a simpler system. If the clowns in Washington want to make a maze with my taxes, I'll play.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

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>I however, will not complain about someone who is able to pay less in tax under the current system . . .

At the most real and basic level, someone who pays more in taxes "supports the troops" (and indeed supports the US government) more than someone who, via various machinations and manipulations of the tax code, pays less. Those are the people who make things like our military, our roads, ATC etc possible, so they deserve at least a little encouragement.

In a strange way, I agree with what you're saying. I have no problem with paying taxes. However, the current system is designed so that those that take the time to look, will find the loopholes. Savings vehicles are full of them.

So, I will continue to work within the system as best I can, while advocating for a simpler system. If the clowns in Washington want to make a maze with my taxes, I'll play.

A simpler system would indeed be very good. "Fair(sic)Tax" would not be.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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What do you think about his comments that (paraphrasing) CEOS are very well rewarded in the short tem for making decisions that have negative consequences in the long term? Buffet's own investment strategies have always been long-term.

It's observation and opinion. I understand what he is saying, but unless he owns or runs the company, it's not his place to sit in judgment. Indeed, his view is long term, but the NYT cites one year performance on his investments over the past year.

I cite his own critique at how he said his secretary paid a higher rate in taxes than he did. The thing is, if he didn't shelter his portfolio the way everyone in his hyper-wealthy bracket do, that would not be the case. I'm not criticizing him for doing so, I'm criticizing him for essentially saying, "I can afford to pay more in taxes." All he has to do is write a check to the IRS...they won't return it. Or, he can structure his compensation the same way 90% of the workforce does.

Ah, but he has an option to do that. You and I do not.

Ah, but when *HE* does it (as opposed to generic fund managers), you appatently think it's ok.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mirage62 0]

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I have a 6 figure income and I don't have to pay it. However, I agree it needs revision.

PLEASE would someone POINT out to me what I am missing? I retain what I believe to be a good accountant. Like John I do well.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point out how I can screw the tax system. After 20 years of running my business I'm ready will but can't figure it out. I'm not talking about cheating. Just the NORMAL ways that the rich get to get out of the taxes.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,184]

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I have a 6 figure income and I don't have to pay it. However, I agree it needs revision.

PLEASE would someone POINT out to me what I am missing? I retain what I believe to be a good accountant. Like John I do well.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point out how I can screw the tax system. After 20 years of running my business I'm ready will but can't figure it out. I'm not talking about cheating. Just the NORMAL ways that the rich get to get out of the taxes.

Neither you nor I qualify as "the rich", Fortson.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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I have a 6 figure income and I don't have to pay it. However, I agree it needs revision.

PLEASE would someone POINT out to me what I am missing? I retain what I believe to be a good accountant. Like John I do well.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point out how I can screw the tax system. After 20 years of running my business I'm ready will but can't figure it out. I'm not talking about cheating. Just the NORMAL ways that the rich get to get out of the taxes.

Neither you nor I qualify as "the rich", Fortson.

According to the liberal democrats, you do. Unless you have kids and they want to insure them with SCHIP.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

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I have a 6 figure income and I don't have to pay it. However, I agree it needs revision.

PLEASE would someone POINT out to me what I am missing? I retain what I believe to be a good accountant. Like John I do well.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point out how I can screw the tax system. After 20 years of running my business I'm ready will but can't figure it out. I'm not talking about cheating. Just the NORMAL ways that the rich get to get out of the taxes.

Neither you nor I qualify as "the rich", Fortson.

According to the liberal democrats, you do. Unless you have kids and they want to insure them with SCHIP.

I know some people who are rich. I mean really really rich (worth >$1 Billion). Rich like you can't imagine unless you hang with them. Most people simply have no idea what being really rich means.

"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me.", F. Scott Fitzgerald, 1926

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mirage62 0]

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I know some people who are rich. I mean really really rich (worth >$1 Billion). Rich like you can't imagine unless you hang with them.

John fetching drinks for large college donors at school functions does not constitute “hanging out”, it’s more like a equal opportunity job placement. Your there to just demonstrate how “cool” the billionaires are for slumming with the college professor.

As usual you really should have known this.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,184]

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I know some people who are rich. I mean really really rich (worth >$1 Billion). Rich like you can't imagine unless you hang with them.

John fetching drinks for large college donors at school functions does not constitute “hanging out”, it’s more like a equal opportunity job placement. Your there to just demonstrate how “cool” the billionaires are for slumming with the college professor.

As usual you really should have known this.

Whatever you say, Fortson. You're the expert on wealth.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mirage62 0]

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Whatever you say, Fortson. You're the expert on wealth.

As you are about taxation and wealth - John

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little