Bush Tax breaks for the "rich"

[KelliJ 0]

Jane gave John $50 and she gave Bill $100. According to you and your twisted way of thinking that is all one needs to know...that Bill got more than John.
Fine. That is, if that is all you want people to know. But if you want them to know the FACTS then you have to ell them the whole story. And that includes telling them that the day before Bill had given Jane $125 and John had given Jane $25.
According to the link I posted and your OWN ADMISSION you were totally wrong in claiming the wealthy get moe than the poor.
Stick to physics, pal. Your grasp of finance is weak.

[kallend 2,150]

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Jane gave John $50 and she gave Bill $100. According to you and your twisted way of thinking that is all one needs to know...that Bill got more than John.
Fine. That is, if that is all you want people to know. But if you want them to know the FACTS then you have to ell them the whole story. And that includes telling them that the day before Bill had given Jane $125 and John had given Jane $25.
According to the link I posted and your OWN ADMISSION you were totally wrong in claiming the wealthy get moe than the poor.
Stick to physics, pal. Your grasp of finance is weak.

Taxes are NOT user fees. That is a critical point that you are missing over and over again. No one disputes that the rich, in general, pay more in taxes. As we should.

And when it comes to government pay-outs, the rich family is getting nearly as much as the poorest, and more than the middle class. WHICH IS THE POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING. The right tells us over and over about handounts to the undeserving poor, but never mentions the government benefits enjoyed by the rich.

From my first post on this topic:

"Here are some interesting data on where federal tax money goes."

Please carefully read the word "GOES" (more carefully than you have up until now).

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lindsey 0]

John, I think she has a crush on you.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kallend 2,150]

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John, I think she has a crush on you.

Nah, I'm too young.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,119]

>My accountant and tax lawyers might feel differently.

Quite true. But by those standards, you could claim that government corruption is not wasted time/money - think of all the trial lawyers, reporters, bloggers, documentary makers etc who profit from such shenanigans.

[joedirt 0]

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How do you feel about multi-millionaire investment fund managers paying tax at a far lower rate than you do?

Yet another reason to get rid of income tax. You probably pay capital gains too, but you probably don't make a living at it. We pay enough in local taxes, our feds don't need to distribute our money to pay cops and pave roads. Its funny how you continue too bash our government but you don't think money is where the power comes from. This nation did just fine before there was an income tax.

[KelliJ 0]

Your entire point is ridiculous! You are comparing receipts without considering expenses. Just because the wealthy get almost as much or the same in services from the government does not mean they are getting any special benefits. It does mean they are paying a hell of a lot more for the same thing. As my link shows, the lowest quintile gets an 8/1 return on their taxes, where the upper quintile get less than a 1/2 return. Who is getting the government benefits? Obviously the lower portion. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that, but obviously it take a college professor to not see it.

BTW, what are these "government benefits" you claim the wealthy get?

[Lindsey 0]

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John, I think she has a crush on you.

Nah, I'm too young.

I think she's trying to woo a strapping young physicist with her intellect. Look how hot you are in that avatar....

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[TankBuster 0]

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According to Bush it will take $3.1 Trillion to run the country next year (President's 2009 budget proposal).

Where EXACTLY do you think that should come from?

Most of us agree that we need to lower spending. The short term solution if we don't - raise taxes on those filthy rich people. The long(er) term solution is to lower them and stop dis-incentivising investment. The economy grows, jobs are created, and revenue grows. The best solution is repeal the 16th amendment, and pass HR 25, and reduce the budget.

Going back to the original post in this thread, the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 cut all of the tax rates. And your calculations on taxes for the various income levels seem accurate - everyone benefits unless you happen to get hit with the AMT. But because higher income earners make more, they get to keep more. HMMM. Hence Bush's "tax breaks for the rich." Here's some mo data fo ya from the Congressional Budget Office:

The top 1% of income earners pay 36% of collected tax.
The top 10% pay a little over 70%
The top 20% pay 84%
The top 40% of income earners pay a whopping 97% of the money it takes to fill the government coffers.

Is that not progressive enough for you?

Peace out, comrades!

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[kallend 2,150]

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You are comparing receipts without considering expenses. ?

HOORAY - at last you've figured it out.
That is EXACTLY what I did, that is EXACTLY what I said I did, and that is EXACTLY what I intended.

Now, if you had bothered to read what I wrote in the first place you could have saved both of us a lot of time.

If you had been around a bit longer you would have seen many people have posted data on taxes PAID. So there was no need for me (or you) to do it again.

Have a lovely evening.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,119]

> This nation did just fine before there was an income tax.

Would you advocate doing what it takes to get back there? Withdrawing all our military forces from every foreign country, getting rid of the interstate system, the Center for Disease Control, Air Traffic Control etc?

Or are you another one of those people who wants wars, roads, services etc but don't want to pay for them?

[kallend 2,150]

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How do you feel about multi-millionaire investment fund managers paying tax at a far lower rate than you do?

Yet another reason to get rid of income tax. You probably pay capital gains too, but you probably don't make a living at it. We pay enough in local taxes, our feds don't need to distribute our money to pay cops and pave roads. Its funny how you continue too bash our government but you don't think money is where the power comes from. This nation did just fine before there was an income tax.

It did indeed, but it wasn't spending over $600BILLION a year on "defense" back then.

Besides, I like driving on interstate highways better than on the dirt roads like they had in 1900.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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According to Bush it will take $3.1 Trillion to run the country next year (President's 2009 budget proposal).

Where EXACTLY do you think that should come from?

Most of us agree that we need to lower spending. The short term solution if we don't - raise taxes on those filthy rich people. The long(er) term solution is to lower them and stop dis-incentivising investment. The economy grows, jobs are created, and revenue grows. The best solution is repeal the 16th amendment, and pass HR 25, and reduce the budget.

Going back to the original post in this thread, the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 cut all of the tax rates. And your calculations on taxes for the various income levels seem accurate - everyone benefits unless you happen to get hit with the AMT. But because higher income earners make more, they get to keep more. HMMM. Hence Bush's "tax breaks for the rich." Here's some mo data fo ya from the Congressional Budget Office:

The top 1% of income earners pay 36% of collected tax.
The top 10% pay a little over 70%
The top 20% pay 84%
The top 40% of income earners pay a whopping 97% of the money it takes to fill the government coffers.

Is that not progressive enough for you?

!

Has it occurred to you that you can't get blood from turnips? OF COURSE the wealthiest people pay the most. And that's as it should be.

I'm somewhere in the top 3%, and consider my taxes to be the appropriate dues I pay to belong to a society that enables me to be successful.

People who claim to be "self made" should try their luck on a desert island, to see if they could still do it without our society and all its infrastructure to support them.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Jane gave John $50 and she gave Bill $100. According to you and your twisted way of thinking that is all one needs to know...that Bill got more than John.
Fine. That is, if that is all you want people to know. But if you want them to know the FACTS then you have to ell them the whole story. And that includes telling them that the day before Bill had given Jane $125 and John had given Jane $25.
According to the link I posted and your OWN ADMISSION you were totally wrong in claiming the wealthy get moe than the poor.
Stick to physics, pal. Your grasp of finance is weak.

You're still new here, so let me help you out.

Kallend knows exactly what he's doing - he posts a poorly attributed, misleading graphic and you just wasted half the morning refuting the obvious. You still think the point is to win the argument. It doesn't work that way.

The score is measured by the ratio of lines you can get your opponent to write (if you put in a 3 liner, and force him to rant for 30, that a score of 10), by the raise in opponent blood pressure, or by moderator bans delivered.

Of course he isn't going to point out that the upper quintile pays more taxes than they get - that derails his argument.

[Lindsey 0]

Of course he isn't going to point out that the upper quintile pays more taxes than they get - that derails his argument.


You get EXACTLY what you pay for....as long as you factor in administrative costs and fluff.

Some people don't consider soldiers' pay, for example, as "getting" anything for their money though....

:)
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[TankBuster 0]

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The score is measured by the ratio of lines you can get your opponent to write (if you put in a 3 liner, and force him to rant for 30, that a score of 10), by the raise in opponent blood pressure, or by moderator bans delivered.

lmao
Wow. I guess I've lost the game BIGTIME. But a lot of my posts were cut and paste plagiarism. Does that help my score? To wit, I have enjoyed this bit of banter, I must now be off to expand the ranks of the bourgeois society. This computer is sucking the life out of me.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[joedirt 0]

If those were my only two choices sure. Bring em home, shut em down. Its not though, there are lots of other taxes. Air traffic control is hardly the first thing that needs to go, surely you know that.

[KelliJ 0]

Bullshit. Your claim was bogus, data posted proved that, but you're to high on yourself to admit your error.
So where are all those benefits the wealthy are supposedly enjoying?

[kallend 2,150]

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The score is measured by the ratio of lines you can get your opponent to write (if you put in a 3 liner, and force him to rant for 30, that a score of 10), by the raise in opponent blood pressure, or by moderator bans delivered.

lmao
Wow. I guess I've lost the game BIGTIME. But a lot of my posts were cut and paste plagiarism. Does that help my score?

Not if the plagiarism is discovered. Then you lose points.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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>My accountant and tax lawyers might feel differently.

Quite true. But by those standards, you could claim that government corruption is not wasted time/money - think of all the trial lawyers, reporters, bloggers, documentary makers etc who profit from such shenanigans.

Sure, but according to a lot of arguments here, it doesn't matter as long as the money goes into circulation again at some point.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[KelliJ 0]

NOW you tell me...lol!

[kallend 2,150]

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Jane gave John $50 and she gave Bill $100. According to you and your twisted way of thinking that is all one needs to know...that Bill got more than John.
Fine. That is, if that is all you want people to know. But if you want them to know the FACTS then you have to ell them the whole story. And that includes telling them that the day before Bill had given Jane $125 and John had given Jane $25.
According to the link I posted and your OWN ADMISSION you were totally wrong in claiming the wealthy get moe than the poor.
Stick to physics, pal. Your grasp of finance is weak.

You're still new here, so let me help you out.

Kallend knows exactly what he's doing - he posts a poorly attributed, misleading graphic and you just wasted half the morning refuting the obvious. You still think the point is to win the argument. It doesn't work that way.

The score is measured by the ratio of lines you can get your opponent to write (if you put in a 3 liner, and force him to rant for 30, that a score of 10), by the raise in opponent blood pressure, or by moderator bans delivered.

Of course he isn't going to point out that the upper quintile pays more taxes than they get - that derails his argument.

:-) Pity you had to spill the beans.

Actually I readily acknowledge the taxes paid by the upper quintile - I'm in that group. But in this case I didn't even need to argue that point, did I? It all went very nicely

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,119]

>Air traffic control is hardly the first thing that needs to go, surely you know that.

Well, keep in mind that there is a pretty loud minority that thinks we should be privatizing air traffic control.

But your post illustrates the problem. "Sure, I am 100% for reducing the size of government. But we can't cut ATC. Cut welfare for the lazy first."

"WHAT? You want to cut benefits to a mother of 3 who had her arms blown off in Iraq? How heartless! I'm all for reducing spending, but we should cut the money wasted on education first."

"WHAT? You want our nation to become a nation of idiots, and have most of our leaders be Asian or Indian because no one else is educated enough? I'd support a smaller government, but you have to reduce military spending first."

"WHAT? And surrender to the terrorists? No thanks. I'm all for cutting spending, but we have to cut frills like government operated Air Traffic Control first."

Everyone wants to cut spending - as long as it's someone else's favorite program.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Everyone wants to cut spending - as long as it's someone else's favorite program.

The only obvious federal spending to cut is the foreign aid and 'peace'keeping expenses. Nowhere else can we get 100s of billions cut. SS or Medicare? Both running profits. Education? Largely a state expense. There is lots of pork, but it's all small scale in comparison, and as as corrolary to what you wrote, one man's pork is another man's pie.

If we were to implement a war tax - how would it be fair to do? Should it be $1000/person, or tiered on the reasoning that the wealthy can better afford it, and benefit more from the war? But doing that gives the majority little reason to vote against the war.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But a lot of my posts were cut and paste plagiarism. Does that help my score?

Postings can be measured alternatively by time to write, but that's a far more subjective measure, useful only to each person. But since blood pressure is part of the game, you're winning if you think you are on the time basis metric.