Andy_Copland 0 #76 February 24, 2008 Maybe the mighty USA should invade China then for thier mass murder of children and child labour. Oh thats right, the US is only the mighty sword weilder when its a fight they believe they can win.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #77 February 25, 2008 QuoteOh thats right, the US is only the mighty sword weilder when its a fight they believe they can win. Actually, that's not far from the truth of a lot of modern military doctrine, no matter what country is making the assessment. Now, onto a tangent...aren't you living in the US now? Or was all that a joke (marriage, visa, etc) and I was too numb to make it out...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #78 February 25, 2008 Quote Oh thats right, the US is only the mighty sword weilder when its a fight they believe they can win. PSSST China does not have enough oil...Me.. I believe what Joshua( AKA the Whopper) said.... the only way to win the game... is not to play. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headcase 0 #79 February 25, 2008 Russia and China back Serbia--Why? Because they fear the separation and anxiety associated with the possibility of separation between their own disparate ethnic groups and the resulting civil war it would create. So the Balkans as so often throughout history have become the thermometer for worldwide events but at the expense of their own regional stability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #80 February 25, 2008 This thread is already heavily hijacked... What I wanted to say is that there is always (at least) 2 sides in conflict. And that there is never a black-white situation. When you said Serbs did what they did, I`m not saying that they didn`t (although I disagree with numbers) I`m just saying you are very wrong when you think that Serbs was the ones killing, and everybody else were victimized. 1. Search the net for numbers of Serbs fleeing Croatia at the end of war. I think it will average some 500.000 (and believe me I personally saw endless refugee lines). How many stayed in Croatia? Maybe 1%, of which half was killed right then and there. Is it called ethnic cleansing? Genocide? I don`t think so. Right now there are trials for Croatian generals in Hague held for that, but it`s not "hype" any more to report about this on the news. We have "war on terror" now. 2. My grandparents fled their home in 1995. when Muslim army came and burn their village, killing everybody that left (including one paralyzed old woman and her son that stayed). I even saw video footage of Muslim army freeing this part of the territory... (closely resembling Iraq videos of killing prisoners). Trials are held for that now, but it`s no in the breaking news anywhere... 3. Do a search on Albanian crimes against Serb minority on Kosovo during the 1999. war. Trials are held for that too. Maybe search Kosovo events from march 2004... I mentioned trials so you don`t think I`m making that up. My point is not to justify crimes saying "well the other side did it too." My point is that you must see that everybody did terrible things. Media often don`t report from both sides. Or when they do, it is not breaking news any more. Most of the people like clean situations. They make up their mind and stick to that. Very seldom they change their opinion. Point is: always try to see situation from different angles. It IS a gray world out there. Come on, you are fighting even in this thread about who blasted more people with bombs, or who gassed more in death camps. Can`t you see that everybody do the shit, but we do tend to justify shit done by our side, and magnify shit done by the other.dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #81 February 25, 2008 Of course you are right Mircan. There are no innocent sides in this; more importantly the majority of people on all sides are innocent. The world press is not good at conveying issues as complex as that; in short we want appointed good guys and appointed bad guys. There is not much question that the largest ethnic group perpetrated the largest share of crimes and so have been designated the bad guy. You people will have to wear that for some time just as the Germans wore the Goat's head for a long time after WWII. Serbia and Serbians will be punished, and continue to be punished for a while as a warning to others. People on this thread talked about how the rest of Europe has learned to live peacefully with each other and you people in the Balkans need to too. This is absolutely true, but people need to remember that the cardinal rule for peace in Europe after WWII was NO IRREDENTISM EVER. The resurrection of irredentism that comes with the decision on Kosovo will usher in a new round of conflict that will spread well beyond the Balkans. The majority of people in the Basque areas of Spain and France are Basques, not Spanish, not French. What do the Walloons think? The Scottish National party are celebrating. What about the Ethnic Hungarians in Transylvania? Did all the poles end up in Poland and all the Germans end up in Germany after WWII? How do they feel? Is the situation with Albanians making up the majority in Kosovo any different than the Scottish Protestants making up the majority in the six counties of Ulster? The Russians are absolutely right on this file; it is very bad precedent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #82 February 25, 2008 Mircan.... Thank you for your input.. I found it a rather refreshing and enlightening insight into yet another failure of humanity to learn to live with one another.. The whole event from start toeventual finish was and is disheartening to me. Balkanization as it has always been is a travesty of human interaction. Now we are seeing it in other places and I guess will lead to more death and destructionin MANY other places..... why... because people... after MILLIONS of dead all over the world.. still find it far easier to kill their neighbor rather than to learn to live together...no matter WHAT their differences Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #83 February 25, 2008 There are two more things I remembered which I find rather interesting... First: Considering war crimes during Bosnia war. I must admit that during that time we lived in total denial. Something like: we are RIGHT, We are the good boys and we can`t be wrong. Justice is on our side. War crimes stories done by us were all enemy propaganda lies. Then when war ended, and the real story behind things started to surface... That was about time I switched my mindset to this way of thinking that I tried to explain you here. It was like waking up. Second: Canuck mentioned that great wars were started in this region before (WWI). Two-three days ago Russian spokesman in the NATO said that if NATO starts to behave outside their mandate on Kosovo Russia will use ARMED FORCE against them. Although Russian statements sometimes tend to be overstatements, that sent chills down my spine... I know there is very little probability of that to happen, but diplomats on such high position don`t say easy stuff like. Again, I hope cooler heads will prevail. Blue ones!dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headcase 0 #84 February 25, 2008 This is a relevant discussion versus the kneejerk--"We should just bomb the bastards" so prevalent at the beginning of the thread and a service to those not familiar with the realities. Forget the media propaganda get to know the issues and most likely your viewpoint may change. My heart goes out to those in Serbia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #85 February 26, 2008 Collegues, ALL of you, rain on you! I used to beleive that skydviving world is kinda dropzone, ONE zone! Don't u have a fat guy, a bully, a skinny, a bastard, and some cool guys @ ur dropzone? EACH of you, at any/every dropzone??? and now what? You're gonna discuss it? lol Please try to diferentiate Bad/Stupid/Ok Jumpers/People/Polititians/Hookers/Babes in countries/continents/dropzones/clubs Oh Please, with sugar on top! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #86 February 26, 2008 Quote Collegues, ALL of you, rain on you! I used to beleive that skydviving world is kinda dropzone, ONE zone! Don't u have a fat guy, a bully, a skinny, a bastard, and some cool guys @ ur dropzone? EACH of you, at any/every dropzone??? and now what? You're gonna discuss it? lol Please try to diferentiate Bad/Stupid/Ok Jumpers/People/Polititians/Hookers/Babes in countries/continents/dropzones/clubs Oh Please, with sugar on top! You left out short people and those who do not always agree with our government. Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #87 February 26, 2008 Quote Quote Collegues, ALL of you, rain on you! I used to beleive that skydviving world is kinda dropzone, ONE zone! Don't u have a fat guy, a bully, a skinny, a bastard, and some cool guys @ ur dropzone? EACH of you, at any/every dropzone??? and now what? You're gonna discuss it? lol Please try to diferentiate Bad/Stupid/Ok Jumpers/People/Polititians/Hookers/Babes in countries/continents/dropzones/clubs Oh Please, with sugar on top! You left out short people and those who do not always agree with our government. and people who only bring crappy lite beer to the dropzone (when they bring beer at all). Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #88 February 26, 2008 QuoteCollegues, ALL of you, rain on you! I used to beleive that skydviving world is kinda dropzone, ONE zone! Yep. Thanks for reminding all of us. I'm with you, mate. Have to remind myself from time to time.. Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #89 February 26, 2008 Quote Collegues, ALL of you, rain on you! I'll have what he's havin'. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #90 February 27, 2008 Cut him some slack. If what he says in his profile is true, he's got as good of a perspective - if not better - on it that any of us. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #91 February 27, 2008 Quote and people who only bring crappy lite beer to the dropzone (when they bring beer at all). Get a rope!!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #92 February 27, 2008 QuoteIf what he says in his profile is true, he's got as good of a perspective - if not better - on it that any of us. Very much so. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
