TrophyHusband 0 #1 February 19, 2008 can we end sanctions now? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #2 February 19, 2008 WTF do we want an island that for all practical purposes stopped developing in the 50's? are we really that hard up for a beach hotel to drink in???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bmore_chrissy 0 #3 February 19, 2008 ... because there's no need to hold an embargo against a country that we have essentially been in a "pride battle" with for the past 40 or so of those 50 years. There are places that pose an actual threat (or a perceived, 'more' actual threat) that we trade with daily. It isn't about a beach hotel, it's about free trade with a country that badly needs it. It's not always about 'what's in it for us,' from a US perspective. Or I guess it is. But it shouldn't be. The CNN article quoted Bush as stating ""The United States will help the people of Cuba realize the blessings of liberty." ...Vomit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #4 February 19, 2008 QuoteThe CNN article quoted Bush as stating ""The United States will help the people of Cuba realize the blessings of liberty." ...Vomit. Why the vomit?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #5 February 19, 2008 it seems like he's just handing off power to his brother - so it doesn't look like anything is changing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #6 February 19, 2008 QuoteIt isn't about a beach hotel, it's about free trade with a country that badly needs it. It's not always about 'what's in it for us,' from a US perspective. Or I guess it is. But it shouldn't be. The CNN article quoted Bush as stating ""The United States will help the people of Cuba realize the blessings of liberty." ...Vomit. One of the "blessings of liberty" is a free market.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bmore_chrissy 0 #7 February 19, 2008 One of the characteristics of liberty (in an economic sense) is a free market. I know it's semantics, but the 'blessing' thing irks me. Castro's regime does eliminate a number of freedoms and restricts liberty. But... to play devil's advocate, the US embargo further restricts the possibility of a free market and, therefore, liberty. No one's helping the situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #8 February 19, 2008 QuoteOne of the characteristics of liberty (in an economic sense) is a free market. I know it's semantics, but the 'blessing' thing irks me. Castro's regime does eliminate a number of freedoms and restricts liberty. But... to play devil's advocate, the US embargo further restricts the possibility of a free market and, therefore, liberty. No one's helping the situation. Sounds like Bush is willing to try. If he wants to frame it as a blessing, well, I guess it's to be expected. As long as the embargo gets lifted, I can look past semantics.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 February 19, 2008 QuoteI know it's semantics, but the 'blessing' thing irks me. "and secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" Sound familiar?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #10 February 19, 2008 do you not think that free market is a blessing? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #11 February 19, 2008 you're likely right, but he's old too. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #12 February 19, 2008 Quotecan we end sanctions now? Can we put all the right wing cubans back on boats??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #13 February 19, 2008 The delegate fiasco has given the GOP a big advantage in Florida; I doubt they will do anything to mess that up like piss the Miami Cubanos off. Look for a few mostly symbolic easing of tensions but nothing of substance until next year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #14 February 19, 2008 QuoteOne of the "blessings of liberty" is a free market. Possibly, but not necessarily. Liberty itself can be its own dichotomy. A free market implies property rights and freedom from government intervention in the market. Those things, however, do not imply freedom of opportunity or a level playing field. Many believe the latter two characteristics are more important to ensure the blessings of liberty than are the former two characteristics. Others have the opposite opinion. Personally, I believe that in order to "ensure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity," freedom of opportunity must be preserved. That cannot always be done in a free market.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #15 February 19, 2008 I just knew the sanctions and embargo would eventually force Castro out!I hope all those who doubted the wisdom of our administrations will now see the error of their beliefs. "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #16 February 19, 2008 Quote WTF do we want an island that for all practical purposes stopped developing in the 50's? What do you mean "Want an island"? He said "Can we end sanctions?" not "Can we take over?".Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #17 February 19, 2008 Quote Quote WTF do we want an island that for all practical purposes stopped developing in the 50's? What do you mean "Want an island"? He said "Can we end sanctions?" not "Can we take over?". Also, while maybe they are a minimal threat at best, and economically their market is not the largest, I can't help but think that it might be advantageous to have good relations with a country that sits 90 miles from the United States as opposed to bad relations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #18 February 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteOne of the "blessings of liberty" is a free market. Possibly, but not necessarily. Liberty itself can be its own dichotomy. A free market implies property rights and freedom from government intervention in the market. Those things, however, do not imply freedom of opportunity or a level playing field. Many believe the latter two characteristics are more important to ensure the blessings of liberty than are the former two characteristics. Others have the opposite opinion. Personally, I believe that in order to "ensure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity," freedom of opportunity must be preserved. That cannot always be done in a free market. I don't think anyone is arguing that equal opportunity is not a good thing. Equality of opportunity, however, does not mean equality of results. That is a big sticking point between the left, the right, and us libertarians in the middle.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bmore_chrissy 0 #19 February 19, 2008 Quote Liberty itself can be its own dichotomy. A free market implies property rights and freedom from government intervention in the market. Those things, however, do not imply freedom of opportunity or a level playing field. Many believe the latter two characteristics are more important to ensure the blessings of liberty than are the former two characteristics. Others have the opposite opinion. Personally, I believe that in order to "ensure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity," freedom of opportunity must be preserved. That cannot always be done in a free market. Really good, interesting point. But be careful, looks like you're going to get into a Dem/Rep 'what is the government's role' sort of thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #20 February 19, 2008 a vacation island is the same as "taking over"? WTF IS there to take over??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bmore_chrissy 0 #21 February 19, 2008 Quote Also, while maybe they are a minimal threat at best, and economically their market is not the largest, I can't help but think that it might be advantageous to have good relations with a country that sits 90 miles from the United States as opposed to bad relations. I think we agree mostly, but what 'minimal' threats are you referring to? Honestly, i'm just curious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #22 February 19, 2008 > can we end sanctions now? Hopefully. Cuba is a good example of how leaving an 'enemy' alone works pretty well in the long run. Old leaders resign/die, governments evolve, and thousands of US troops get to watch their kids grow up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #23 February 19, 2008 Quote a vacation island is the same as "taking over"? WTF IS there to take over??? You said "Why do we want an island that..." I have no idea what ending sanctions has to do with "wanting" Cuba?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #24 February 19, 2008 QuoteI have no idea what ending sanctions has to do with "wanting" Cuba? Think deep water oil reserves........ does it make sence now?? http://www.redorbit.com/news/display/?id=391281 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #25 February 19, 2008 Nothing specific. I just think that having a government a short flight or boat ride away that hates us is more threatening than not. I'm not saying that they have the capacity to actually do anything or the desire to even try. However, I'd like to think that it'd be nicer to have a government over there that, if the opportunity to hurt the US in any capacity came up, would decline it rather than relish it. I don't have any actual evidence of any threat - I was speaking in hypothetical terms more than anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
