Another Campus Shooting--at My Alma Mater

[mnealtx 0]

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So, you're evidently in favor of the government having even MORE information on you and even MORE intrustion into your personal business, then.

BTW, seperate topic, but did you fight against the Fourth Amendment raping this past week? Any info you have is now open to the gov't, so this is a weak argument now.

I'm not for more laws, I'm for the right laws. See the subtle difference, it's a fine line but I don't think Politicians are smart enough to notice it and the NRA machine would never allow dicussion on it.

This shit all hits close to home for me. Going back to Columbine where my friend and his wife worked/lived there and she worked on some of the victims. To the NIU thing yesterday to the Lane Bryant shooting where my closest friend and his wife live no more than 100 feet form the store. And despite all that I don't want CCW. I want the correct laws in place.

Good luck with that - because what you're advocating *IS* Big Brother watching you.

Lemme know when the criminals start obeying the law, too, will you?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Good luck with that - because what you're advocating *IS* Big Brother watching you.

Lemme know when the criminals start obeying the law, too, will you?

Ya, much better to dismiss a viable option and go for the brute force approach instead.

And if you think I am advocating Big Brother, you missed everything I said.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[mnealtx 0]

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Good luck with that - because what you're advocating *IS* Big Brother watching you.

Lemme know when the criminals start obeying the law, too, will you?

Ya, much better to dismiss a viable option and go for the brute force approach instead.

And if you think I am advocating Big Brother, you missed everything I said.

You're advocating making MORE information (medical records) available to the government to accomplish the extra screening you want done.

Viable option? If the OTHER 20 thousand plus gun laws on the books didn't dissuade the shooter, why do you think one more will?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Butters 0]

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I think deranged individuals are more likely to choose targets based on familiarity and the presence of individuals that they believe are the cause of their problems than whether the targets are "hard" or "soft".

I'm sure that plays into the equation as well.

I'm sure it plays into the equation more than whether a target is "hard" or "soft" (which do not play or play very little into the equation).

Really? Then you should easily be able to find an equal number of multiple victim shootings at police stations and gun shops, then. I look forward to your proof.

The number does not have to be equal, it has to be greater than zero (which it is). If you were right than these individuals would be attacking schools, malls, etc... that provide the "softest" target instead of schools, malls, etc... that they are attending or have attended.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rushmc 23]

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So, you're evidently in favor of the government having even MORE information on you and even MORE intrustion into your personal business, then.

BTW, seperate topic, but did you fight against the Fourth Amendment raping this past week? Any info you have is now open to the gov't, so this is a weak argument now.

I'm not for more laws, I'm for the right laws. See the subtle difference, it's a fine line but I don't think Politicians are smart enough to notice it and the NRA machine would never allow dicussion on it.

This shit all hits close to home for me. Going back to Columbine where my friend and his wife worked/lived there and she worked on some of the victims. To the NIU thing yesterday to the Lane Bryant shooting where my closest friend and his wife live no more than 100 feet form the store. And despite all that I don't want CCW. I want the correct laws in place.

OK, what is the "right" law?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,114]

The NRA actually does oppose gun rights for the mentally disturbed. However, it is just lip service, because it does everything it possibly can to oppose any rules that might prevent nutjobs from getting guns.

Incidentlally the perp in the NIU shooting was off his meds, yet managed to buy (at least) two guns legally a week ago, because the existing laws are totally worthless.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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How about lack of gun laws preventing nut jobs from getting guns? But I'm sure the NRA has a solid reason on why someone taking drugs with a list of side effects a mile long need a hunting rifle to defend the farm.

The mental health profession has the reasons. The only valid methods (as usual, Kallend and you offer up nothing specific) to ensure disarming all those with potential mental concerns or use of psychiatric drugs is for the shrinks to become a department of the police force. The consequence of that change is that people will stop seeking help from doctors because they know their privacy is no longer a consideration.

So instead of a few potential crazies pushed over by drugs, you have a lot more untreated crazies running about, and there's nothing to provent those people from buying weapons.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm sure it plays into the equation more than whether a target is "hard" or "soft" (which do not play or play very little into the equation).

When a homeless guy goes at the police with a knife and is shot down, the press talks about it for one day, maybe two, and only locally.

When a kid shoots up an undefended school, it's talked about for months, the school get ESPN Game Day, and the punk is immortalized (or known for at least a decade, like the Columbine kids). If instead nothing was said after week 1, yeah, they'd find other ways.

The rare people who commit suicide by cop just want to die. The kid at Virginia Tech produced a video manifesto. He expected and got it aired. The attention paid, and the ease of killing enough people to get the publicity is a significant factor.

[kallend 2,114]

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How about lack of gun laws preventing nut jobs from getting guns? But I'm sure the NRA has a solid reason on why someone taking drugs with a list of side effects a mile long need a hunting rifle to defend the farm.

The mental health profession has the reasons. The only valid methods (as usual, Kallend and you offer up nothing specific) .

I have offered very specific changes in previous threads.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have offered very specific changes in previous threads.

nope.

[kallend 2,114]

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I have offered very specific changes in previous threads.

nope.

Just because you didn't like them didn't make them non-existent.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,114]

From CNN:

"University Police Chief Donald Grady said people close to Kazmierczak have told authorities he was taking medication but had stopped and had become "somewhat erratic" in the last couple of weeks.

"Grady would not name the medication Kazmierczak had been using or the condition for which he was taking it."

"Kevin Cronin of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said that two of the weapons were legally purchased February 9 from a dealer in Champaign. The bureau was still tracing the other two weapons used in the attack."

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Butters 0]

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I'm sure it plays into the equation more than whether a target is "hard" or "soft" (which do not play or play very little into the equation).

When a homeless guy goes at the police with a knife and is shot down, the press talks about it for one day, maybe two, and only locally.

When a kid shoots up an undefended school, it's talked about for months, the school get ESPN Game Day, and the punk is immortalized (or known for at least a decade, like the Columbine kids). If instead nothing was said after week 1, yeah, they'd find other ways.

The rare people who commit suicide by cop just want to die. The kid at Virginia Tech produced a video manifesto. He expected and got it aired. The attention paid, and the ease of killing enough people to get the publicity is a significant factor.

What is your point in regards to how the "hardness" or "softness" of a target plays into the equation?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Amazon 7]

PET PEEVE TIME

I listened to the President of NIU this morning.. and several times he used the term Heart Rendering for the families an other students...

You would think a University
President.... MIGHT have a better grasp of the English Language...

HEART RENDING.... SHEEESH

Rant over.

[rehmwa 2]

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Heart Rendering

because that actually means something COMPLETELY different than what I believe he intended.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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What is your point in regards to how the "hardness" or "softness" of a target plays into the equation?

a hard target only gets you killed. A soft target gets you the attention you think you deserve. Different type of person, but seemingly more common (dangerous assumption based on widely reported events).

Give people a means of self defense at school and the toll will be smaller, and the number of attacks will decrease. May just be offset elsewhere, but you start where you can.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have offered very specific changes in previous threads.

nope.

Just because you didn't like them didn't make them non-existent.

And just because you say you they exist doesn't mean they actually do.

So long as you claim to believe in individual rights and privacy, you're going to fail to come up with a specific solution. You can't solve this problem without creating that problem.

[Butters 0]

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a hard target only gets you killed.

Not true.

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A soft target gets you the attention you think you deserve. Different type of person, but seemingly more common (dangerous assumption based on widely reported events).

There are plenty of "soft" targets. Why do they choose the school they are attending or have attended?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[lawrocket 3]

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Why do they choose the school they are attending or have attended?

Easy recon.

For anyone wanting to commit such a thing, it would be best to operate in a familiar environment. No need to case the place - you've spent years knowing every nook and cranny. Thus, you know the ins and outs. Your surveillance for the best target is already well within your knowledge.

Second. A lecture hall is a great place to unload on a large group of confined people. A movie theater is awesome - except it's dark. Ah! But a lecture hall is like a movie theater with good lighting.

Third - defenseless victims. Schools are great for that. The best you'll find are CSO's who don't know anything, and won't be in class. It'll be 5 minutes before anyone shows. By then I'll be dead.

Okay. Hit classrooms.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Butters 0]

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Why do they choose the school they are attending or have attended?

Easy recon.

For anyone wanting to commit such a thing, it would be best to operate in a familiar environment. No need to case the place - you've spent years knowing every nook and cranny. Thus, you know the ins and outs. Your surveillance for the best target is already well within your knowledge.

Second. A lecture hall is a great place to unload on a large group of confined people. A movie theater is awesome - except it's dark. Ah! But a lecture hall is like a movie theater with good lighting.

Third - defenseless victims. Schools are great for that. The best you'll find are CSO's who don't know anything, and won't be in class. It'll be 5 minutes before anyone shows. By then I'll be dead.

Okay. Hit classrooms.

The question was for those that believe that deranged individuals choose their target based largely (if not solely) on whether the target is "hard" or "soft".

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rushmc 23]

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The NRA actually does oppose gun rights for the mentally disturbed. However, it is just lip service, because it does everything it possibly can to oppose any rules that might prevent nutjobs from getting guns.

Incidentlally the perp in the NIU shooting was off his meds, yet managed to buy (at least) two guns legally a week ago, because the existing laws are totally worthless.

And a non-worthless law would be? Oh ya, and be very specific or you are the one providing, ah, how did you put ? Oh ya "lip service".

I will not hold my breath waiting for you to be specific

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,114]

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The NRA actually does oppose gun rights for the mentally disturbed. However, it is just lip service, because it does everything it possibly can to oppose any rules that might prevent nutjobs from getting guns.

Incidentlally the perp in the NIU shooting was off his meds, yet managed to buy (at least) two guns legally a week ago, because the existing laws are totally worthless.

And a non-worthless law would be? Oh ya, and be very specific or you are the one providing, ah, how did you put ? Oh ya "lip service".

I will not hold my breath waiting for you to be specific

If you held your breath more often you wouldn't spout so much rubbish.

However, you could also look in the thread "Do "madmen" and criminals have a right to bear arms?" for one of my specific suggestions, instead of pretending I hadn't made any.

A little searching and you'll find others. Then I'll accept your apology.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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The NRA actually does oppose gun rights for the mentally disturbed. However, it is just lip service, because it does everything it possibly can to oppose any rules that might prevent nutjobs from getting guns.

Incidentlally the perp in the NIU shooting was off his meds, yet managed to buy (at least) two guns legally a week ago, because the existing laws are totally worthless.

And a non-worthless law would be? Oh ya, and be very specific or you are the one providing, ah, how did you put ? Oh ya "lip service".

I will not hold my breath waiting for you to be specific

If you held your breath more often you wouldn't spout so much rubbish.

However, you could also look in the thread "Do "madmen" and criminals have a right to bear arms?" for one of my specific suggestions, instead of pretending I hadn't made any.

A little searching and you'll find others. Then I'll accept your apology.

You offered no more than what the VPC advocates along with the Brady Bunch.

Ban ban ban

I was hoping for something more from you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,114]

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The NRA actually does oppose gun rights for the mentally disturbed. However, it is just lip service, because it does everything it possibly can to oppose any rules that might prevent nutjobs from getting guns.

Incidentlally the perp in the NIU shooting was off his meds, yet managed to buy (at least) two guns legally a week ago, because the existing laws are totally worthless.

And a non-worthless law would be? Oh ya, and be very specific or you are the one providing, ah, how did you put ? Oh ya "lip service".

I will not hold my breath waiting for you to be specific

If you held your breath more often you wouldn't spout so much rubbish.

However, you could also look in the thread "Do "madmen" and criminals have a right to bear arms?" for one of my specific suggestions, instead of pretending I hadn't made any.

A little searching and you'll find others. Then I'll accept your apology.

You offered no more than what the VPC advocates along with the Brady Bunch.

Ban ban ban

I was hoping for something more from you

WRONG as usual. Do you really like making yourself look silly?

Please provide a link to any post where I have advocated a gun ban.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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The NRA actually does oppose gun rights for the mentally disturbed. However, it is just lip service, because it does everything it possibly can to oppose any rules that might prevent nutjobs from getting guns.

Incidentlally the perp in the NIU shooting was off his meds, yet managed to buy (at least) two guns legally a week ago, because the existing laws are totally worthless.

And a non-worthless law would be? Oh ya, and be very specific or you are the one providing, ah, how did you put ? Oh ya "lip service".

I will not hold my breath waiting for you to be specific

If you held your breath more often you wouldn't spout so much rubbish.

However, you could also look in the thread "Do "madmen" and criminals have a right to bear arms?" for one of my specific suggestions, instead of pretending I hadn't made any.

A little searching and you'll find others. Then I'll accept your apology.

You offered no more than what the VPC advocates along with the Brady Bunch.

Ban ban ban

I was hoping for something more from you

WRONG as usual. Try again.

Please provide a link to any post where I have advocated a gun ban.

Well, technically you are correct here. You have never said ban but, you double back around the issue really offering nothing different. You want to restrict rights with which you do not agree with and complain about what you consider to be rights violations in other topics. In essance, you would be ok with hand gun and semi auto rifle bans, right?

Or, you would have weapons stored in such a fashsion to be worthless for self defense. Therefore effectivly removing them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln