Does this clip make you want to become a vegetarian?

[Lucky... 0]

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Game and fish? A gov agency....MMhhh, I choose to listen to biologists and the sort, you know, those with PhD's and publishing journals.

Lucky MOST of those departments have quite a few biologists on staff to make recomendations based on numbers... carrying capacity of the winter grazing areas etc....in allowing for seasons.. harvest numbers etc.

They do not make decisons based on la la land propoganda but on FACTS. to keep the availible herds thinned to a point to prevent disease and starvation in the herd. Same thing goes with the amounts of fish allowed escapement so there are viable numbers to breed the next generation. Soon after the mate.. and lay the eggs and fertilize them in the stream beds the adults.... ALL die off.

Get the facts lucky...it make ya look better in these arguements.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Get the facts lucky...it make ya look better in these arguements.

You have yet to post any facts, just your opinion. Saying the game and fish are about fair treatment of animals is like saying the cops are about fair treatment of all people......as they dump a quad out of a wheelchair

Post objective facts if claim them so and quit comming off as a Repub by posting opinion labeled as fact.

[Amazon 7]

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So we have, equal consideration of interests. What a concept: equality, the very thing you harp about for races, classes, etc. I guess some things are selective. I would suggest you quit clammering about the classism and inequality from some of the Republicans on here then; you really risk looking like a hypocrite.

As soon as they can make a rational decision and vote.. I will think about it... I do assign different values to different species..I believe its horribly wrong to kill cetaceans... I have seen them up close and very personal... and when you look in their eyes you can tell there is indeed a sentient being there.

Other animals.... not so much...and no there is no hypocrisy there at all. just reality based upon what nature is on this planet.

[Lucky... 0]

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So we have, equal consideration of interests. What a concept: equality, the very thing you harp about for races, classes, etc. I guess some things are selective. I would suggest you quit clammering about the classism and inequality from some of the Republicans on here then; you really risk looking like a hypocrite.

As soon as they can make a rational decision and vote.. I will think about it... I do assign different values to different species..I believe its horribly wrong to kill cetaceans... I have seen them up close and very personal... and when you look in their eyes you can tell there is indeed a sentient being there.

Other animals.... not so much...and no there is no hypocrisy there at all. just reality based upon what nature is on this planet.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As soon as they can make a rational decision and vote.. I will think about it...

Now you're making sense, .... so are going hunting for retarded people this year? Better get you license before they run out - very popular. The time of year I prefer over retarded season is the infant season, as you can bag more in less time. Get it? Your criterion: Retarded people and infants can't make rational decisions or vote, so they are like, according to you, animals. Your criterion, not mine.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I do assign different values to different species

Well that's a relief, or you would be blowing a bullet thru the heads of humans in the name of food. That gross on several levels.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I do assign different values to different species..I believe its horribly wrong to kill cetaceans... I have seen them up close and very personal... and when you look in their eyes you can tell there is indeed a sentient being there.

But a deer is just a stupid SOB, right? Briliant. I guess that's what it takes to soothe one's conscience for breaking up a family of creatures. Hey here's a thought, you are so hell-bent on killing these animals so they don't have to starve, what if you kill a mother who is collecting food for her young, she leaves the den, nest, whatever to collect food, you cap her ass, she doesn't return and her young all die. See, you are a fucking humanitarian; you killed several in one fell swoop! I digress.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>Other animals.... not so much...and no there is no hypocrisy there at all. just reality based upon what nature is on this planet.


That's YOUR opinion based on your thirst to kill that animal. Even using your flawed logic, you're saying that due to less intelligence as viewed thru eyes, there is less right to live. Again, we are back at killing retarded people - I just can't disagree with your logic any more.

I fully understand you realize youa re killing a living viable creature andthere is a lot of guilt that accompanies that, so you have to defer to rationalization to live with that. Murderers, pedophiles and many others use the same survival tactics. Sociopaths, however, have little to no conscience so they don't have to rationalize.

[jcd11235 0]

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W/o a doubt, the taste is different/better. No one has yet to claim that but you, here comes the bandwagon.

Most people have never tasted wild game that has been cleanly killed (a slow death adversely affects flavor, supposedly) *and* properly cleaned *and* properly processed. Heck, most people have probably never tasted elk at all. Have you ever heard anyone talk about how wild animals taste "gamey?" It's because one of the above three things was screwed up on the part of the hunter or meat processor.

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Now that is totally wrong. Hunting creates such an imbalance in the equalibrium of species that it is absurd to claim otherwise.

Human settlements (cities) create the unnatural imbalance by driving out natural predators. Hunters help bring that balance back.

I'm originally from Missouri, a state where a lot of people (successfully) hunt deer every year, with a combined harvest of about 300,000 deer annually. Right now the state conservation department estimates that the whitetail deer population is larger than it has *ever* been.

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For a long time, deer were in short supply. Biologists credit Missouri's hunting laws with helping them manage the population but that success has helped the herds multiply rapidly. So biologists want to know if people think they should change some of the laws in the hunting guide to keep it under control.

When you go to places like the Springfield Conservation Nature Center, you can readily see deer roaming the grounds.

“The deer have come back in Missouri to the point where we have a million, maybe a little more than a million, deer in Missouri and it’s estimated that that is more than even in presettlement times,” Source

Unmanaged hunting *can* be detrimental to wildlife populations. However, with careful management, hunting can be quite beneficial.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[TrophyHusband 0]

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(a slow death adversely affects flavor, supposedly)

there may be some truth to that. last season i killed a deer that was in the middle of a river still alaive but had been shot first by another hunter. the deer was 1 1/2 years old and does taste gamey. my buddy's deer was 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years old but was killed, skinned, quartered, and in ice water very quickly and happens to be the best deer that i've ever tasted.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

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But a deer is just a stupid SOB, right? Briliant. I guess that's what it takes to soothe one's conscience for breaking up a family of creatures. Hey here's a thought, you are so hell-bent on killing these animals so they don't have to starve, what if you kill a mother who is collecting food for her young, she leaves the den, nest, whatever to collect food, you cap her ass, she doesn't return and her young all die.

these statements really show how little you know about the animals that we hunt.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Human settlements (cities) create the unnatural imbalance by driving out natural predators. Hunters help bring that balance back.


Yes and no, respectively.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm originally from Missouri, a state where a lot of people (successfully) hunt deer every year, with a combined harvest of about 300,000 deer annually. Right now the state conservation department estimates that the whitetail deer population is larger than it has *ever* been.


Assuming you're right, and you probably are as you seem to carry a lot of crdibility in the way you post/cite, if people quit hunting in a given year, there would be a boom/bust cycle. As well, there are 2 types of hunting, legal/organized and illgal. Illegal hunting is wiping out populations and even species altogether. Regardless of the impact on a given population of animals, it is cruel. I hope you take no insult to ths general statement, but I think there's something wrong with a peson's mental state if they need to kill an animal, considering we're only selective omnivores. We can live w/o meat, can we live w/o veggies/fruit? Of course not.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unmanaged hunting *can* be detrimental to wildlife populations. However, with careful management, hunting can be quite beneficial.

Leaving them alone is more beneficial. And for the god believers who also hunt, I have to believe that god" would not approve of selective omnivoirism of his/her little creatures. Perhaps his/her goal would be to hope that species that were designed to not eat meat would live in harmony. This might open up a whole new area of this issue, but many people do live w/o any animal products, many more w/o meat and are easily as healthy, generally more healthy. Even if a person eats fish, as with the Asians, they tend to live much longer and be healthier. Conversely, the Fat ass red meat-eating American might go 60 if he/she is lucky.

[Lucky... 0]

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But a deer is just a stupid SOB, right? Briliant. I guess that's what it takes to soothe one's conscience for breaking up a family of creatures. Hey here's a thought, you are so hell-bent on killing these animals so they don't have to starve, what if you kill a mother who is collecting food for her young, she leaves the den, nest, whatever to collect food, you cap her ass, she doesn't return and her young all die.

these statements really show how little you know about the animals that we hunt.

That was a general reiteration of Amazon's post. Whales and dolphins deserve not be hunted, as you can look into their eyes and see how intelligent they are, and deer are not like that, hence fuck em. That really fits the definition of, "speciesist" that I posted.

I understand that killing defenseless animals is like religion and most things; your parents pass along these values. We think that we make these decisions on our own, but in most cases they are environmentally programmed into us either genetically or environmentally. Let me guess, your father.family hunted and my mom is a vegan. I'm agnostic, my mom leans more toward atheism. So it's nit an exact science, but it's rare to find attributes that are constantly different from parent to child, so long as that parent physically raised that child. Let me guess, yur dad instilled ideals in you that made you believe you were doing a favor to the animals you put a bullet thru? Mine made it abhorrent. Who's right? I dunno, I can sleep at night, somehow you can too.

[Royd 0]

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As for a good shot, never been one. I mostly like what they call assualt weapons, still trying to find a non-assault weapon. I don;t shoot for accuracy, I shoot for fun

What a huge waste of money. You could be buying some poor family some steak.

[Royd 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Personally.. a quick bullet is far kinder to months of starvation thru a really bad winter...

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Well, maybe we shoukd use that philosophy for homeless people in fall Fucking brilliant.

So you're now trying to save the same creatures who made this world such a miserable place for you to live in?
I would think that thinning the herd would be the solution.

[masterrig 1]

I did! That clip, as I mentioned earlier, was from a movie I saw on HBO, about the meat industry and the exploitation of illegal aliens. I can't recall the actor's name but, he played 'Fes' on 'That 70's Show', was in it.


Chuck

[nerdgirl 0]

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This might sound a bit whacky but, I blame Walt Disney for all this PETA crap! He 'humanized' animals. Made them all cute and cuddly with cute squeaky little voices. Most of this country grew-up with Disney characters and critters. We need to know the difference between animals and humans. Cattle are raised to be eaten! So were pigs! Slaughter houses process the meat for sale at the grocery store... it ain't 'Porky' and it ain't 'Ferdinand'!

Not wacky at all to me ... but insightful.
Nature isn’t kind. And perhaps, also factor in consumer expectations w/r/t easy availability & cheapness of food.

Food – whether meat or produce – isn’t grown in the back of a supermarket. Most folks (I hope) recognize that ... but I'm not sure most appreciate the work (& I'm not pretending that I do) to get it there and economics/corporate: are livestock, grains, and produce valued first/more as commodities or first as food in 21st Century?

VR/Marg … vegetarian since 1985

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[billvon 3,090]

>Hey here's a thought, you are so hell-bent on killing these animals
>so they don't have to starve, what if you kill a mother who is collecting
>food for her young . . .

pssst - Lucky - deer don't collect food for their young.

[SpeedRacer 1]

If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

edited to add quote by Anthony Bourdain:

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"Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food. The body, these waterheads imagine, is a temple that should not be polluted by animal protein. It's healthier, they insist, though every vegetarian waiter I've worked with is brought down by any rumor of a cold. Oh, I'll accommodate them, I'll rummage around for something to feed them, for a 'vegetarian plate', if called on to do so. Fourteen dollars for a few slices of grilled eggplant and zucchini suits my food cost fine."

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[ExAFO 0]

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If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

And so tasty and well-served with potatoes?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[skydyvr 0]

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If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

We are designed to eat meat. But we are omnivores, so eating meat is a choice.

In today's world, most people who eat meat do so because they are ignorant (or don't care) about the negative environmental and health issues in doing so.

OTOH, people who aren't ignorant and who do care choose not to eat meat, or at least refine their meat-source choices.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Zenister 0]

no.. fast food sucks because it is poor quality so i try to avoid it..

life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_GZXtNzqc&feature=related

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[SpeedRacer 1]

someone else pointed out that our nearest relatives, chimpanzees and gorillas, are herbivores. Not strictly true: they are omnivores, and both eat meat when they can get it.

Our digestive tract is also that of an omnivore, but the human physiology is definitely FURTHER into the carnivorous end of the spectrum than our primate relatives. ie, our digestive tract is much shorter, indicating we are designed to eat more of a more efficient food source, (ie, meat).

Also if you look at the way we evolved from Australopithecines: The human brain evolved rapidly among our more carnivorous ancestors compared to the more herbivorous hominids that were around at the same time. After all, we were going after a food source that moves.


It's ironic that our hunting, meat-eating habits is so responsible for the development of the human intellect, and, hence, the level of comfort, such that we now have the luxury to rest on our laurels & say how "wrong" it is to eat meat.

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[Amazon 7]

I am really beginning to wonder if a certain someone lives on the same planet we do

Friggin speciesist plant murderers

http://www.farshores.org/p05sha.htm

In 1966, Cleve Backster was America’s foremost lie-detector examiner and such an expert in their use that he taught classes to various police departments and security organizations. He serendipitously discovered that, by using a galvanometer (lie-detector) to measure the minute electrical signals from plants, he could determine their responses to various stimuli and situations. He conducted numerous experiments to demonstrate that plants and humans share similar response patterns. Plants have positive and negative emotional responses to their physical and “mental” environments just like we do. In fact, Backster discovered from his experiments that plants are even more capable than most humans in at least one respect. Plants are capable of telepathy or “reading the minds” of the other beings in their environment. They form bonds with certain individuals and are capable of knowing the intention of those individuals. Intent is a mental activity.

So, we need to ask, where are the sensing organs and emotional response centers for plants? Where is the brain? Since it is communicating without sound and speech as we know it, what is the medium that is used to carry communications? Because there is so much going on here that is not available to our sensory organs, maybe we should accept the notion that we are aware of only a very small part of this realm or dimension in which we live. Perhaps plants do have brains and sensing organs, but they do not manifest in a form that is visible or available to us. If plants, which are a lower form of life than humans, can communicate telepathically, why can’t humans? Perhaps it is because we are taught at a very early age that communication is to be accomplished only with our five “ordinary” senses, hearing, sight, smell, touch and taste.

[SpeedRacer 1]

How can these vegetarians be so cruel as to look into these eyes & kill these cute little vegetables?

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[Amazon 7]

SAVE THE PLANTS



Except for CORN

I have determined that CORN while being a usefull food source.. and industrial resource...is completely and utterly evil... and hence deserves to be used as a food source and a raw product for making other food stuffs.. and for being used to create Ethanol

[billvon 3,090]

>but the human physiology is definitely FURTHER into the carnivorous
>end of the spectrum than our primate relatives . . .

Not really.

A carnivore's jaw is like a simple hinge, so it can open wider (to eat lots of stuff quickly.) It doesn't have a compound angle like a herbivore does. This makes it harder for a herbivore to eat a lot quickly, and makes it hard to tear meat, but makes it easy to chew up tough plant material. We have a compound jaw angle.

Carnivore's jaws primarily just open and close, while herbivores can also move left and right to chew plant matter well. Our jaw moves back and forth.

Carnivores have pointed molars to tear meat. Herbivores have flat molars to grind plant matter. We have flat molars.

Most carnivores don't chew much; most herbivores must chew a lot. We chew a lot.

Carnivores do not produce amylase in their saliva (to digest starches.) Herbivores do. So do we.

Carnivores have short, simple, smooth small intestines to gather nutrients from highly concentrated food sources. Herbivores have long, comvoluted, sacculated small intestine to get as much benefit from limited concentrations of nutrients as possible. We have long, convoluted, sacculated small intestines.

Carnivores have no problem detoxifying vitamin A, since some food sources (livers) have lots of it. Herbivores cannot. We have trouble, too - eating certain meats will sicken us because we cannot rid ourselves of the excess vitamin A.

Carnivores have pointed incisors to grab food that's trying to escape. Herbivores have spatulate incisors to rip off grasses/chunks of fruit. We have spatulate incisors.

Plant eaters have whole extra stomachs/cecums to deal with breaking down cellulose. Meat eaters have much simpler digestive systems. We have a long and complex one, but we do not have additional chambers. We do, however, have a vestigial one that used to help us break down cellulose - our appendix.

Herbivores have small throats since they chew everything a lot. Carnivores have wide throats since they don't chew very much (meat is easy to digest.) We have small throats. Indeed, "choking on a piece of meat" is still the biggest cause of choking deaths.

Herbivores can synthesize taurine; carnivores can't. We can still synthesize it although we are losing the ability to do so.

None of this says we should not eat meat, or that we can only eat vegetables. We started out as herbivores and are gradually evolving away from that to become true omnivores. But we retain a LOT of our herbivore ancestry, and meat still gives us trouble (obesity, LDL's, choking etc.)

[PLFXpert 0]

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Not really...None of this says we should not eat meat, or that we can only eat vegetables. We started out as herbivores and are gradually evolving away from that to become true omnivores. But we retain a LOT of our herbivore ancestry, and meat still gives us trouble (obesity, LDL's, choking etc.)

Excellent post!


And then you said what I would have plus like four other things.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[ExAFO 0]

Why do I eat meat?

Because it tastes good and has lots of protein and iron.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 3,090]

>Because it tastes good and has lots of protein and iron.

Too much iron is bad for you; it's an oxidant that damages cells. Meat-heavy diets often provide too much iron for men. (Women bleed more and so don't have as much trouble with iron overload.)