Royd 0 #251 February 15, 2008 Quotesame as hanging a sheep by its foot for an hour so the blood drains out, then cutting its throat. I think you've got that backwards, but that's probably the way you'd do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #252 February 15, 2008 You claim we need to eat animals or animal products to get B-12, I just refuted that, Hmm...so you can get it from eating dirt. Okay. If it suits you. :) linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #253 February 15, 2008 QuoteYes, whiney men make me puke.You spend a lot of time in front of the toilet, do you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #254 February 15, 2008 I know Wikipedia's great and all, but here's a link to NIH if you're interested. Gives some good information. http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #255 February 15, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote(a slow death adversely affects flavor, supposedly) there may be some truth to that. last season i killed a deer that was in the middle of a river still alaive but had been shot first by another hunter. the deer was 1 1/2 years old and does taste gamey. my buddy's deer was 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years old but was killed, skinned, quartered, and in ice water very quickly and happens to be the best deer that i've ever tasted. Well at least we have our priorities in order, who gives a fuck about the suffering YOU cause. in this case i put that poor deer out of it's misery. it was wounded and in pain, but it had been shot just in the hind leg, severing the bone. this injury alone is not fatal, but a wolf or coyote would soon find this deer and just start munching on it probably without even killing it first. as for the rest of my kills, the goal is to put it down as quickly and painlessly as possible. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #256 February 15, 2008 QuoteQuote>Hey here's a thought, you are so hell-bent on killing these animals >so they don't have to starve, what if you kill a mother who is collecting >food for her young . . . pssst - Lucky - deer don't collect food for their young. Pssssst, Bill, she eats it and provides milk until they are old enough, then leads then to show them how to survive all the ahole predators. psssst - lucky - hunting season for deer is in the fall. by that time all of the deer born the previous spring have long since been weened and they are fully capable of being independant. the only situation in which your "breaking up of families" theory applies is to bears, but it is illegal to kill a sow with cubs. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #257 February 15, 2008 QuoteThere's lots of well thought-out stuff in this thread. But the "we're not designed to eat meat" argument just doesn't work. The very first thing that comes to my mind is Vitamin B-12. Can't live without it....or at least if you're gonna have blood and a brain. Can't get it from veggies. It's either meat, eggs, milk or a dietary supplement off the shelf. Our digestive systems handle meat just fine....but they need a bit of fiber/roughage too. Somebody, at some point in history, said something about "balance in all things." I think that's probably true here too. linz You know as well as I do what happens when less fortunate children are given noursihing meat for their diets. They start doing a measurable amount better in SCHOOL. Check out a program called "Hunters for the Hungry" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #258 February 15, 2008 Quote[you resort to your weak attempt at emasculation. a strong attempt wasn't necessary. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
froglady 0 #259 February 15, 2008 Not my point. I just find it interested that vegetarians & vegans who don't want or find it disgusting to eat meat get their share. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #260 February 15, 2008 QuoteBeans are also a complete food source, w/o the "poisons" to boot. That is a horrible argument, meat is incredibly bad for humans. WRONG,, yet again Beans are poisionous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney_beans Toxicity Before they are eaten, the raw bean seeds should be boiled for at least ten minutes to degrade a toxic compound - the lectin phytohaemagglutinin - found in the bean which would otherwise cause severe gastric upset. This compound is present in many varieties (and in some other species of bean), but is especially concentrated in red kidney beans and white kidney beans (Cannellini beans). Although in the case of dry beans the ten minutes required to degrade the toxin is much shorter than the hours required to fully cook the beans themselves, outbreaks of poisoning have been associated with the use of slow cookers whose low cooking temperatures may be unable to degrade the toxin. Sprouts of pulses high in haemaglutins should not be eaten. Kidney beans, especially, should not be sprouted.[1][2][3] Not quite so perfect a food for LuckyWorld now are they Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #261 February 15, 2008 QuoteNot quite so perfect a food for LuckyWorld now are they "LuckyWorld" [TM] I believe that trademark is reserved. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #262 February 15, 2008 Quotebecause (again...for the 4th or 5th time) we HAVE to have meat or eggs or milk in order to live... Those who DO have a problem with killing an animal may buy dietary supplements, however, to provide vital nutrients that will necessarily be missing from their diets. Doc, are the B-12 supplements typically derived from animals? (<-- genuine question, not a segue to an argument)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #263 February 15, 2008 QuoteHmm...so you can get it from eating dirt. Okay. If it suits you. Would you please stop being such a sensationalist? The article mentioned that B12 could also be obtained by reingesting feces. Eating dirt isn't the only option.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #264 February 15, 2008 QuoteQuotebecause (again...for the 4th or 5th time) we HAVE to have meat or eggs or milk in order to live... Those who DO have a problem with killing an animal may buy dietary supplements, however, to provide vital nutrients that will necessarily be missing from their diets. I don't know the answer to that. Maybe somebody else does.... linz Doc, are the B-12 supplements typically derived from animals? (<-- genuine question, not a segue to an argument)-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #265 February 15, 2008 So now you're saying that Lindsey should eat shit? Wow, you're mean."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #266 February 15, 2008 Quote are the B-12 supplements typically derived from animals? Obviously I'm not Lindsey. No. And Amazon you'll be pleased to know no plants were harmed in the making of (most) Vitamin C supplements either. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #267 February 15, 2008 QuoteSo now you're saying that Lindsey should eat shit? Wow, you're mean. For the record, no, that WAS NOT what I was saying. I was being hypocritical (by saying she was being a sensationalist).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #268 February 15, 2008 >Again....that little B-12 issue is enough right there to argue the point >that we ARE designed to NEED animal products (meat, eggs, milk). Well, actually, cows can't synthesize B-12 (cobalamin) directly either. The only organisms on the planet that CAN synthesize B-12 are bacteria; generally these bacteria live in the root nodules of beans, alfalfa and clover. The cows usually eat enough of the roots that they get the B-12 they need, and that B-12 is passed on to us. But if we ate the roots of alfalfa, clover or beans, we'd get all the B-12 we need as well. B-12, by the way, contains cobalt, which is one reason we have a lot of trouble synthesizing it. We have bacteria in our gut that CAN synthesize it, but since most people's diets don't contain much free cobalt, they don't provide us with enough B-12. Since cows end up eating a lot of dirt along with their grass, they do get a significant amount of free cobalt, and their gut bacteria then help them synthesize the vitamin. So after a while, there's a lot of B-12 sitting around pastures from cow manure alone. Another useless fact - farmers sometimes add cobalt to salt licks or fertilizer in cobalt-deficient pastures, so a cow's intestinal flora has something to work with. I think the conclusion one can draw from this is that: -we used to get B-12 from eating roots or (basically) dirt and manure -ruminant meat is such a good source of it that it quickly took over as our primary source of B-12 It's yet another example of how we are beginning to adapt from being a pure herbivore to more of an omnivore as meat replaces other parts of our diet. We are losing the ability to synthesize several other things such as taurine, although the ability still exists. In another ten thousand years you might see the ability to synthesize taurine disappear completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #269 February 15, 2008 >Doc, are the B-12 supplements typically derived from animals? The most common B-12 supplements are made from yeast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #270 February 15, 2008 Quote And Amazon you'll be pleased to know no plants were harmed in the making of (most) Vitamin C supplements either. Oh yeah.. what happened to all their young.... all those seeds crushed after all the work they went into making all those precious promises of a future....OH THE PLANTITY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #271 February 15, 2008 Quote >Doc, are the B-12 supplements typically derived from animals? The most common B-12 supplements are made from yeast. j which is why homebrew is good for you! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #272 February 15, 2008 >which is why homebrew is good for you! Any beer, really. A few studies have shown that beer intake is associated with higher average B12 (and folate) levels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #273 February 15, 2008 I am brewing a bock tomorrow. & sometime in the future, an IPA and then a Pilsener. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #274 February 15, 2008 Quote Maybe my mind's just in the gutter though. How YOU doin? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #275 February 15, 2008 Quote And Amazon you'll be pleased to know no plants were harmed in the making of (most) Vitamin C supplements either. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh yeah.. what happened to all their young.... all those seeds crushed after all the work they went into making all those precious promises of a future Not even--it's synthetic! Since we know its molecular structure we can totally form it without harming defenseless fruits & vegetables. Vitamin E supplements, otoh, are a plants WORST enemy! Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
