GQ_jumper 4 #26 February 11, 2008 You are one of the worst at doing that, I remember your posts about your service in the military, trust me, I have quite a few things to say about it but choose not to turn the thread into a venue to knock other posters whom I've convinced myself I'm superior to as you do with such regularity.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #27 February 11, 2008 QuoteIf you're arguments are all going to consist of pathetic one-lined insults please refrain from participating this discussion, all you are doing is wasting space and getting people fired up and it degrades the thread. And your posts are sooooo helpful and educational? I posted early on why perhaps the war has fallen off as the #1 issue, yet you have failed to address it, but insist on addressing my other posting. Have you posted anything on topic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #28 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou are one of the worst at doing that, I remember your posts about your service in the military, trust me, I have quite a few things to say about it but choose not to turn the thread into a venue to knock other posters whom I've convinced myself I'm superior to as you do with such regularity. Uh, I praise troops. This war is a POS led by a POS president who was voted in by the most moronic POS Americans. The troops who get injured, die or just serve in this war are NO DIFFERENT than WWII troops, revolutionary war troops, etc.... The sacrifice is the sacrifice, even if enough idiots elect a criminal to lead us into a POS war, it's all the same to the troops. Find where I've stated otherwise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 February 11, 2008 Bill -- I'm sorry I brought it up. You knew Jerry better than I ever did. I'm just pissed off right now.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #30 February 11, 2008 And if you can't find him, maybe you could just STFU for a few days. *** I don'ty understand can we really tell people to "STFU" here. I mean where's Bills "Your one warning" Double standard I believeKevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #31 February 11, 2008 Bill, in reading the post that quade linked to I understood it as saying he was killed while serving as a SEAL, I missunderstood the context in which the term "former SEAL" was used, my apologies for that. At the same time though, I will stand by what I said, he was killed trying to help those he worked with, that is not a meaningless death, being killed like that is never easy on those who care about someone but he still served in the special operations community and you will rarely if ever find a special operator, past or present who wants what they have done to be used in a politically charged argument. The community sees it as being very disrespectful, my condolences in the loss of your friend, but he didn't die in vain, he was helping those who couldn't help themselves. And Lucky, I'll even help you knock this thing back on track if that is what you so wish, the OP posted a link to an article explaining how all the citizens watch programs such as "the awakening" have turned the tables on AQ, and strangely enough as soon as things started going good everyone stopped mentioning the war all together because the reasons to kock Bush over Iraq were dissapearing, but to fullfill their need to slam him they have just inserted new topics into the conversation. I have personally seen how AQ has alienated themselves from the people in Iraq and they have worked against themselves in truning the citizens against them. Things are going great over there, listing numbers of casualties is a BS argument, it's war, people are going to die whether things are going good or bad, small numbers of casualties is more of an indicator that we aren't doing our jobs than one of success, so Kallend's reply is a weak argument at best. I'm personally not a big fan of the president either, but regardless of whether or not we like him things in Iraq have changed drastically, and believe it or not the surge was a huge help in moving things in the right direction.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #32 February 11, 2008 QuoteHow low is this? http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/ Considering your statement " I like war." in another thread... Quote How is that low, I didn't see the pictures being used in a political argument, I went through the first few pages ad all I saw was a tribute. I see them as a tribute as well as politcal. Some will use them to push their point of needless death and others as the reason to continue this war (we must revenge their deaths). I hope hope the former will prevail and no more faces need to be posted. When I joined during the Iranian Crisis, I was all geared for a big war. I thought it was the right thing. Only some years later did we learn what it was really all about. Had we gone full scale back then, I can only imagine how many would had died for a lie. It seems that we go to war for all the wrong reasons. There is no right reason for Iraq. There is for Afghanistan but, Iraq was for ego and not much more. I really hope that someday you learn to hate war and that your face does not end up on some internet tribute site. Sadly, those pages will grow in the years to come as it really does not appear that any end is close in sight."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #33 February 11, 2008 QuoteI'm personally not a big fan of the president either, but regardless of whether or not we like him things in Iraq have changed drastically, and believe it or not the surge was a huge help in moving things in the right direction. Kind of makes ya wish that the dipshit had listened to the generals in the first place who were telling him to deploy far more troops that he initially did. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #34 February 11, 2008 Quote And if you can't find him, maybe you could just STFU for a few days. *** I don'ty understand can we really tell people to "STFU" here. I mean where's Bills "Your one warning" Double standard I believe Let it go Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #35 February 11, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm personally not a big fan of the president either, but regardless of whether or not we like him things in Iraq have changed drastically, and believe it or not the surge was a huge help in moving things in the right direction. I really wonder if things have changed, whatever changes will be temp or perm, and if it really matters to how people address/remember the war. People get desensitized after a time and move on while the BS continues. The question as to why people seem to not be bringing it up is best answerd by the severe economic times on the horizon, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #36 February 11, 2008 I see them as a tribute as well as politcal. Some will use them to push their point of needless death and others as the reason to continue this war (we must revenge their deaths). I hope hope the former will prevail and no more faces need to be posted. Quote I agree with you 100% that people will use the faces of those we have lost to further their case, but that is neither here nor there, the sight was a tribute to those lost, we should take it at face value out of respect for those who have their pictures up there. There are always going to be people in this world who twist these things into tools to better their position, its a fact of life. don't focus on the negative, say your thanks to those who have their their pictures posted and be grateful they volunteered to serve so others wouldn't be forced to. It's a fact of life that soldiers are merely pawns to help politicians get their way, we're both fully aware of that, you have to find meaning in what you do regardless of why some spineless coward in Washington sent you in, for me it has nothing to do with wanting to travel the world killing people, that's not why I love combat. I do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #37 February 11, 2008 Quotewhen you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! That's a fair point. Want to try for two? The military industrial complex notwithstanding, who has benefited from this war? The Iraqis have lost an untold number of civilian lives, and much infrastructure has been destroyed. They lost a competent secular leader who, while perhaps a bad guy, was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from power. Included in his legacy are free compulsory education, free hospitalization, widespread roads and electricity, increased freedoms and opportunities for women-- the list goes on. How many years do you think it will take for Iraq to get back to the point that they were at before we took it upon ourselves to invade the sovereign country without just cause? And, at what cost to American taxpayers will this rebuilding take place. Powell warned Bush prior to the invasion, that if we break it, we bought it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #38 February 11, 2008 *** Let it go *** STFUKevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #39 February 11, 2008 Lucky, I agree that the economy deserves the majority of media coverage at the moment, trust me I want the next pres. to fix it, I'm in the hurt locker right now owning a home I can't live in and looking at all my retirement investment going down the crapper. but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #40 February 11, 2008 Quote *** Let it go *** STFU STFU back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 February 11, 2008 was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from powerQuote This statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #42 February 11, 2008 Quote STFU back damn the "double STFU back" I stand correcteed and will now.........STFU Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #43 February 11, 2008 QuoteI do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things. Kids often join street gangs for exactly the same reasons. (I'm not trying to argue or say your choice was wrong. I'm just trying to highlight a similarity.)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #44 February 11, 2008 Quote but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly. The proponents of the war have announced that the corner has been turned so many times now that most people aren't buying it. Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #45 February 11, 2008 QuoteThis statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings. Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. When it was convenient for us, we supported Saddam. Likewise, when it became convenient for us, we began demonizing him. Let's not forget who helped the Baathists rise to power in the first place.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #46 February 11, 2008 Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Fatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #47 February 11, 2008 Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. Quote You just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. We are able to mitigate some of the violence, no one can stop it all, the people who have that power are the ones who let childish arguments drive them to murder. My teammates and I often likened the trible clashes to little kids on the playground arguing about who was a bigger meanie head because they disagreed on which of the X-men was the coolest. Seriously, their reasons for hating each other are typically that pointless and insignificant, they have just been raised in a culture where violence is the answer to all, and their former leader only helped to further that attitude with his actions which were witnessed on a much larger scale.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #48 February 11, 2008 QuoteFatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #49 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. If you believe that, then you apparently misunderstood my original statement (or perhaps the follow-up). We are not mitigating the violence anywhere nearly as effectively as SH did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #50 February 11, 2008 Quote Hey sir, when you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! A good young rePUBICan chickenhawk kind of war.....OH THE CARNAGE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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masterblaster72 0 #33 February 11, 2008 QuoteI'm personally not a big fan of the president either, but regardless of whether or not we like him things in Iraq have changed drastically, and believe it or not the surge was a huge help in moving things in the right direction. Kind of makes ya wish that the dipshit had listened to the generals in the first place who were telling him to deploy far more troops that he initially did. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #34 February 11, 2008 Quote And if you can't find him, maybe you could just STFU for a few days. *** I don'ty understand can we really tell people to "STFU" here. I mean where's Bills "Your one warning" Double standard I believe Let it go Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #35 February 11, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm personally not a big fan of the president either, but regardless of whether or not we like him things in Iraq have changed drastically, and believe it or not the surge was a huge help in moving things in the right direction. I really wonder if things have changed, whatever changes will be temp or perm, and if it really matters to how people address/remember the war. People get desensitized after a time and move on while the BS continues. The question as to why people seem to not be bringing it up is best answerd by the severe economic times on the horizon, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #36 February 11, 2008 I see them as a tribute as well as politcal. Some will use them to push their point of needless death and others as the reason to continue this war (we must revenge their deaths). I hope hope the former will prevail and no more faces need to be posted. Quote I agree with you 100% that people will use the faces of those we have lost to further their case, but that is neither here nor there, the sight was a tribute to those lost, we should take it at face value out of respect for those who have their pictures up there. There are always going to be people in this world who twist these things into tools to better their position, its a fact of life. don't focus on the negative, say your thanks to those who have their their pictures posted and be grateful they volunteered to serve so others wouldn't be forced to. It's a fact of life that soldiers are merely pawns to help politicians get their way, we're both fully aware of that, you have to find meaning in what you do regardless of why some spineless coward in Washington sent you in, for me it has nothing to do with wanting to travel the world killing people, that's not why I love combat. I do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #37 February 11, 2008 Quotewhen you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! That's a fair point. Want to try for two? The military industrial complex notwithstanding, who has benefited from this war? The Iraqis have lost an untold number of civilian lives, and much infrastructure has been destroyed. They lost a competent secular leader who, while perhaps a bad guy, was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from power. Included in his legacy are free compulsory education, free hospitalization, widespread roads and electricity, increased freedoms and opportunities for women-- the list goes on. How many years do you think it will take for Iraq to get back to the point that they were at before we took it upon ourselves to invade the sovereign country without just cause? And, at what cost to American taxpayers will this rebuilding take place. Powell warned Bush prior to the invasion, that if we break it, we bought it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #38 February 11, 2008 *** Let it go *** STFUKevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #39 February 11, 2008 Lucky, I agree that the economy deserves the majority of media coverage at the moment, trust me I want the next pres. to fix it, I'm in the hurt locker right now owning a home I can't live in and looking at all my retirement investment going down the crapper. but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #40 February 11, 2008 Quote *** Let it go *** STFU STFU back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 February 11, 2008 was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from powerQuote This statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #42 February 11, 2008 Quote STFU back damn the "double STFU back" I stand correcteed and will now.........STFU Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #43 February 11, 2008 QuoteI do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things. Kids often join street gangs for exactly the same reasons. (I'm not trying to argue or say your choice was wrong. I'm just trying to highlight a similarity.)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #44 February 11, 2008 Quote but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly. The proponents of the war have announced that the corner has been turned so many times now that most people aren't buying it. Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #45 February 11, 2008 QuoteThis statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings. Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. When it was convenient for us, we supported Saddam. Likewise, when it became convenient for us, we began demonizing him. Let's not forget who helped the Baathists rise to power in the first place.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #46 February 11, 2008 Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Fatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #47 February 11, 2008 Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. Quote You just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. We are able to mitigate some of the violence, no one can stop it all, the people who have that power are the ones who let childish arguments drive them to murder. My teammates and I often likened the trible clashes to little kids on the playground arguing about who was a bigger meanie head because they disagreed on which of the X-men was the coolest. Seriously, their reasons for hating each other are typically that pointless and insignificant, they have just been raised in a culture where violence is the answer to all, and their former leader only helped to further that attitude with his actions which were witnessed on a much larger scale.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #48 February 11, 2008 QuoteFatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #49 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. If you believe that, then you apparently misunderstood my original statement (or perhaps the follow-up). We are not mitigating the violence anywhere nearly as effectively as SH did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #50 February 11, 2008 Quote Hey sir, when you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! A good young rePUBICan chickenhawk kind of war.....OH THE CARNAGE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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jcd11235 0 #37 February 11, 2008 Quotewhen you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! That's a fair point. Want to try for two? The military industrial complex notwithstanding, who has benefited from this war? The Iraqis have lost an untold number of civilian lives, and much infrastructure has been destroyed. They lost a competent secular leader who, while perhaps a bad guy, was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from power. Included in his legacy are free compulsory education, free hospitalization, widespread roads and electricity, increased freedoms and opportunities for women-- the list goes on. How many years do you think it will take for Iraq to get back to the point that they were at before we took it upon ourselves to invade the sovereign country without just cause? And, at what cost to American taxpayers will this rebuilding take place. Powell warned Bush prior to the invasion, that if we break it, we bought it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #38 February 11, 2008 *** Let it go *** STFUKevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #39 February 11, 2008 Lucky, I agree that the economy deserves the majority of media coverage at the moment, trust me I want the next pres. to fix it, I'm in the hurt locker right now owning a home I can't live in and looking at all my retirement investment going down the crapper. but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #40 February 11, 2008 Quote *** Let it go *** STFU STFU back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #41 February 11, 2008 was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from powerQuote This statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #42 February 11, 2008 Quote STFU back damn the "double STFU back" I stand correcteed and will now.........STFU Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #43 February 11, 2008 QuoteI do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things. Kids often join street gangs for exactly the same reasons. (I'm not trying to argue or say your choice was wrong. I'm just trying to highlight a similarity.)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #44 February 11, 2008 Quote but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly. The proponents of the war have announced that the corner has been turned so many times now that most people aren't buying it. Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #45 February 11, 2008 QuoteThis statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings. Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. When it was convenient for us, we supported Saddam. Likewise, when it became convenient for us, we began demonizing him. Let's not forget who helped the Baathists rise to power in the first place.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #46 February 11, 2008 Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Fatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #47 February 11, 2008 Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. Quote You just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. We are able to mitigate some of the violence, no one can stop it all, the people who have that power are the ones who let childish arguments drive them to murder. My teammates and I often likened the trible clashes to little kids on the playground arguing about who was a bigger meanie head because they disagreed on which of the X-men was the coolest. Seriously, their reasons for hating each other are typically that pointless and insignificant, they have just been raised in a culture where violence is the answer to all, and their former leader only helped to further that attitude with his actions which were witnessed on a much larger scale.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #48 February 11, 2008 QuoteFatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #49 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. If you believe that, then you apparently misunderstood my original statement (or perhaps the follow-up). We are not mitigating the violence anywhere nearly as effectively as SH did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #50 February 11, 2008 Quote Hey sir, when you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! A good young rePUBICan chickenhawk kind of war.....OH THE CARNAGE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mirage62 0 #42 February 11, 2008 Quote STFU back damn the "double STFU back" I stand correcteed and will now.........STFU Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #43 February 11, 2008 QuoteI do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things. Kids often join street gangs for exactly the same reasons. (I'm not trying to argue or say your choice was wrong. I'm just trying to highlight a similarity.)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #44 February 11, 2008 Quote but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly. The proponents of the war have announced that the corner has been turned so many times now that most people aren't buying it. Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #45 February 11, 2008 QuoteThis statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings. Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. When it was convenient for us, we supported Saddam. Likewise, when it became convenient for us, we began demonizing him. Let's not forget who helped the Baathists rise to power in the first place.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #46 February 11, 2008 Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Fatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #47 February 11, 2008 Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. Quote You just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. We are able to mitigate some of the violence, no one can stop it all, the people who have that power are the ones who let childish arguments drive them to murder. My teammates and I often likened the trible clashes to little kids on the playground arguing about who was a bigger meanie head because they disagreed on which of the X-men was the coolest. Seriously, their reasons for hating each other are typically that pointless and insignificant, they have just been raised in a culture where violence is the answer to all, and their former leader only helped to further that attitude with his actions which were witnessed on a much larger scale.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #48 February 11, 2008 QuoteFatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #49 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. If you believe that, then you apparently misunderstood my original statement (or perhaps the follow-up). We are not mitigating the violence anywhere nearly as effectively as SH did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #50 February 11, 2008 Quote Hey sir, when you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! A good young rePUBICan chickenhawk kind of war.....OH THE CARNAGE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
GQ_jumper 4 #47 February 11, 2008 Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. Quote You just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. We are able to mitigate some of the violence, no one can stop it all, the people who have that power are the ones who let childish arguments drive them to murder. My teammates and I often likened the trible clashes to little kids on the playground arguing about who was a bigger meanie head because they disagreed on which of the X-men was the coolest. Seriously, their reasons for hating each other are typically that pointless and insignificant, they have just been raised in a culture where violence is the answer to all, and their former leader only helped to further that attitude with his actions which were witnessed on a much larger scale.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #48 February 11, 2008 QuoteFatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #49 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. If you believe that, then you apparently misunderstood my original statement (or perhaps the follow-up). We are not mitigating the violence anywhere nearly as effectively as SH did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #50 February 11, 2008 Quote Hey sir, when you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! A good young rePUBICan chickenhawk kind of war.....OH THE CARNAGE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jcd11235 0 #48 February 11, 2008 QuoteFatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #49 February 11, 2008 QuoteYou just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. If you believe that, then you apparently misunderstood my original statement (or perhaps the follow-up). We are not mitigating the violence anywhere nearly as effectively as SH did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #50 February 11, 2008 Quote Hey sir, when you get a war where spit wads and nerf balls are the ammo you will have a point!! A good young rePUBICan chickenhawk kind of war.....OH THE CARNAGE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
