Are Hillary and Obama still "unelectable"?

[Amazon 7]

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I think a lot of "bigots" would have been glad to vote for both a woman and a minority if the right person had been interested in the position.

I am trying really hard to picture a Republican slate with Justice Thomas as Presidential candidate.. with Ann Coulter for VP....

You mean something like that????

[lawrocket 3]

What I see in the primaries:

GOP is a party divided by voters basing their choices on ideology.

The Dems are a party divided by voters basing their choices on race and sex.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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I think a lot of "bigots" would have been glad to vote for both a woman and a minority if the right person had been interested in the position.

I am trying really hard to picture a Republican slate with Justice Thomas as Presidential candidate.. with Ann Coulter for VP....

You mean something like that????

seems to me that the worst nightmare for the Dems about a decade ago was Colin Powell running for President. Or a black woman as Secretary of State.

Meanwhile, the party of inclusion is showing up in droves to vote for their race or gender.

Hmmm. Where's the bigotry being seen?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,594]

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GOP is a party divided by voters basing their choices on ideology.

The Dems are a party divided by voters basing their choices on race and sex.

It's pretty hard to divide a bunch of old white guys based on race and sex...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wmw999 2,587]

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I think a lot of "bigots" would have been glad to vote for both a woman and a minority if the right person had been interested in the position.

The problem is that the required qualifications for someone whom you can't identify with are often more stringent than those for someone you can identify with.

After all, I can imagine what someone I can identify with might decide on a matter that's important to me. I can't as easily when it's someone who is too different. That difference can be physical (too tall -- will they understand the plight of short people), geographical (I'm not about to vote for someone from Idaho -- what do they know about me?), or anything else.

So, yeah, they'll vote for someone of a different race or gender, as long as they know them.

A number of folks said they liked George W. Bush because they felt he was one of the guys.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lawrocket 3]

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GOP is a party divided by voters basing their choices on ideology.

The Dems are a party divided by voters basing their choices on race and sex.

It's pretty hard to divide a bunch of old white guys based on race and sex...

You'd think it'd be easy to divide ideologies of Clinton and Obama instead of focusing on race and gender.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,594]

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You'd think it'd be easy to divide ideologies of Clinton and Obama instead of focusing on race and gender.

I thought they were being divided a lot on percieved personality and family history as well

I was just saying it's not a fair comparison to say that the dems are and the repubs aren't dividing some voters based on race and sex, since the repub candidates cannot be divided on either race or sex. Maybe if they could be then they would be but right now we just don't know.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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I thought they were being divided a lot on percieved personality and family history as well

The Right Wingnuts certainly are making those distinctions.. Far Reich Wing Radio is CERTAINLY alive with it... how many smear emails have gone out about Obama being muslim.. swearing on the Quran etc... as well as the wonderful people calling Hillary ALL kinds of names about her gender .. sexuality,etc.

[skydyvr 0]

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I think a lot of "bigots" would have been glad to vote for both a woman and a minority if the right person had been interested in the position.

Condi comes to mind.

. . =(_8^(1)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I would have liked to see Rice run against Clinton.
But I guess Rice is too smart to subject herself to this.
Maybe she is waiting for the next election.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[happythoughts 0]

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I am trying really hard to picture a Republican slate with Justice Thomas as Presidential candidate.

Perhaps the Dems could trot out Anita "dirty jokes" Hill again and try to slander him with sexual harassment allegations. (Dirty jokes, not even a blow job, but the Dems thought he should be crucified.)

At least he confronted Hill instead of paying her $1 million of hush money, in an out of court settlement like Bill "I repeatedly lied" Clinton.

Also, Thomas never cranked up a slime machine against Hill like Carville did against Paula Jones.

Carville's most famous quote, "Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find." Carville doesn't believe that poor women deserve protection or respect.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I would have liked to see Rice run against Clinton.
But I guess Rice is too smart to subject herself to this.
Maybe she is waiting for the next election.

She would have a hard time of things. The GOP's dislike for women and blacks would cost her a lot of votes.

The Democrats dislike for boot licking conservative Cabinet members would cost her nearly all of their votes. The difference between her and Powell is he actually disagreed with the President.

[billvon 3,114]

>Why should I or anyone else abandon their political beliefs because
>of a disappointing presidency/congress?

Same reason you might stop using Time-Warner Cable if they suck and will continue to suck, and Cox Cable is better. Doesn't mean you have to believe anything different. But if you stop using them, you are no longer a Time-Warnerite. (Or perhaps a Time-KKKWarnerite in your terms!)

[happythoughts 0]

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I would have liked to see Rice run against Clinton.
But I guess Rice is too smart to subject herself to this.
Maybe she is waiting for the next election.

She would have a hard time of things. The GOP's dislike for women and blacks would cost her a lot of votes.

"She" is black and a woman.
For being disliked, she's doing pretty well.

[kelpdiver 2]

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"She" is black and a woman.
For being disliked, she's doing pretty well.

as evidenced by what? She's never been in an election.

[Amazon 7]

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Perhaps the Dems could trot out Anita "dirty jokes" Hill again and try to slander him with sexual harassment allegations. (Dirty jokes, not even a blow job, but the Dems thought he should be crucified.)

Tsk tsk tsk... seems he is STILL lying...but you guys will never believe that.
Perhaps YOU could get him to take a polygraph... he seems reluctant.. becaus ehe KNOWS he could never pass it.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/03/america/03Anitahill-globe.php?page=1

At least he confronted Hill instead of paying her $1 million of hush money, in an out of court settlement like Bill "I repeatedly lied" Clinton.

Hill, now 51, said that when she heard about Thomas's book, she was reluctant to re-engage in the dispute that riveted the nation in 1991. But, she said, she decided she needed to defend herself. She said she stands by her sworn testimony. She said Thomas did make suggestive statements to her and talk about pornographic movies. She noted, as she did in 1991, that she took a polygraph test and passed it, while Thomas declined to be tested.

[happythoughts 0]

So, you think he was lying? (Never proven, unlike BC) And you find this upsetting?

In 1999, Judge Wright (a woman) found Bill Clinton in civil contempt of court for misleading testimony in the Jones case. (By "misleading", we mean lying.)

She ordered Clinton to pay Jones $91,000 for the expenses incurred as the result of Clinton's dishonest and misleading answers.

If you want to talk about someone that needs a lie detector test... I don't think we have that much paper.

So... you find sexual harassment on the job to be reprehensible behavior ?

I don't remember any allegations that said that Thomas actually touched her, or exposed his genitals, or actually had sex with Hill.

He told her some dirty jokes. "Adult" humor between adults.

That's a lot different than exposing himself or groping.
That would definitely be offensive, don't you think?

Hill followed Thomas from one job to another.
Apparently, they were on good terms. Unlike the multiple women who reported the predatory actions of BC?

Yep, if Clinton had been tried for any of the many allegations that were reported, that would be interesting. If Hillary won, Bill would have to send out Sexual Offender notices to everyone living around the White House.

[Amazon 7]

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He told her some dirty jokes. "Adult" humor between adults.

That's a lot different than exposing himself or groping.
That would definitely be offensive, don't you think?

Hill followed Thomas from one job to another.
Apparently, they were on good terms. Unlike the multiple women who reported the predatory actions of BC?

Still makes it a hostile workplace.. BUT alot of us give a pass to the boys will be boys...

But I see you are ok with that... just another good conservative value... just what I have come to expect from the good ole boys.

[happythoughts 0]

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Still makes it a hostile workplace.. BUT alot of us give a pass to the boys will be boys...

I'm not giving anyone a pass.

You brought up Clarence Thomas. He was never identified as doing anything. She lied and he denied her lies.

All he did was respond to a political smear campaign created by the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy. You don't like that sort of smear campaign, you mentioned it earlier.

In the Paula Jones case, the judge said that BC lied and fined him.
In the Lewinsky case, BC admitted that he lied.

Two simple questions that you repeatedly avoid...
Are you against ANY sexual harassment in the workplace? (Pulling out your penis is real harassment.)
Are you against lying in a court of law?

Speaking of giving someone a free pass...
You sure don't criticize President Bubba for all the proven lies and harassment. As much as you talk about party politics, you seem to be all about it.

Would you say that it was wrong for BC to harass Paula Jones?

[lawrocket 3]

YEah, Jeanne. It's not like he got a blowjob from a subordinate or anything. That would have been worthy of our admiration.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mnealtx 0]

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You'd think it'd be easy to divide ideologies of Clinton and Obama instead of focusing on race and gender.

I thought they were being divided a lot on percieved personality and family history as well

I was just saying it's not a fair comparison to say that the dems are and the repubs aren't dividing some voters based on race and sex, since the repub candidates cannot be divided on either race or sex. Maybe if they could be then they would be but right now we just don't know.

It's absolutely a fair comparison - how many posts on here do you see from the libs saying "we need a black president" or "we need a woman president". There's very little discussion about their views on issues, just talk about race and gender.

From my viewpoint, people saying they're going to vote for someone just because they're a woman or just because their black is sheer idiocy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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I thought they were being divided a lot on percieved personality and family history as well

The Right Wingnuts certainly are making those distinctions.. Far Reich Wing Radio is CERTAINLY alive with it... how many smear emails have gone out about Obama being muslim.. swearing on the Quran etc... as well as the wonderful people calling Hillary ALL kinds of names about her gender .. sexuality,etc.

How many smears from the barking moonbats about Romney's religion, or Giulianni's divorces, etc etc etc?

Hard to claim the high road when you're in the pen with the rest of the pigs.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[nerdgirl 0]

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It's absolutely a fair comparison - how many posts on here do you see from the libs saying "we need a black president" or "we need a woman president". There's very little discussion about their views on issues, just talk about race and gender.

From my viewpoint, people saying they're going to vote for someone just because they're a woman or just because their black is sheer idiocy.

Mike -

Concur with the sentiment of the 2nd paragraph.

Point of clarification (w/r/t 1st paragraph): are you asserting that as an actual observation or something else? If the former, would/could you point out a few examples to support that assertion?

Otoh, we've had at least one whole (long) thread in which the most gender-based characterizations were made by non-liberals:

E.g.,

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***Exactly why i'd never vote for a woman. "TEARS UPON DEMAND" And what happens if her estrogen pills get fucked up. Look out.

Maybe something like: "It's that time of the month boys; who can I blow up this time?"

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She failed, as a wife, to minister to her husband's sexual desires on demand. She should have been the one under the desk.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[rehmwa 2]

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From my viewpoint, people saying they're going to vote for someone just because they're a woman or just because their black is sheer idiocy.

nonsense - it's enlightenment. Open your mind.

I'm going to show just how color/gender blind I am by voting for someone purely on the basis of color/gender. That'll show 'em. Maybe I'll get invited to neat parties.

Don't you see? It's the only way.

(I see the same comments from the left quite a bit on DZ.com - but I suspect those people are really more deep than that, they just throw that junk out there due to indoctrination or as a troll tactic or it's just the kids on the site - the average adult is a little smarter than that)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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From my viewpoint, people saying they're going to vote for someone just because they're a woman or just because their black is sheer idiocy.

I agree. I also think it is lunacy to vote for someone because they are an evangelical, or to refuse to vote for someone because they are a Mormon. Looking at the GOP vote splits in the south and in Utah it is clear that is happening as well.
Personally I think Obama let a huge opportunity escape when the race thing came up with the accusations of Clinton not showing enough reverence for MLK. If he had made a speech at that point telling democrats not to vote for him because he was black, but rather because of (insert buzzwords here) he would have had the liberals gushing and the moderate right quietly nodding their heads. The Kennedy comparisons are nice, but you have to walk the walk.