DSE 5 #51 January 29, 2008 EXAFO, I feel compelled to explain that not even President Hinckley knows which planet he gets to rule over, that won't be determined until the second coming of Christ. At the moment, he is merely an exalted resident of the Planet Kolob. (Yes, this is a serious answer). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #52 January 29, 2008 QuoteEXAFO, I feel compelled to explain that not even President Hinckley knows which planet he gets to rule over, that won't be determined until the second coming of Christ. At the moment, he is merely an exalted resident of the Planet Kolob. (Yes, this is a serious answer). Actually, according to "Mormon theology," God does not live on Kolob. Kolob means "the first creation" and is the name of the star closest to the "residence of God." It is not God's actual residence. But keep the misinformation coming. If you know as much as you say you do you know what you just posted is wrong. For some reason you love to do that.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #53 January 29, 2008 Did I say God lived on Kolob? No more than I'd said anything about Gordon Hinckley before being shat on. you should attend Sunstone...Quinn gave an excellent dissertation on whether Kolob is literal or figurative. Of course, he's since been excommunicated. yes, I know that by common LDS belief, Hinckley isn't literally on Kolob. And you know that those that are celestial kingdom qualified are not assigned a planet over which to reign until the second coming. SPECIFICALLY, which information have I incorrectly provided? Write fast, cuz sure as hell I'm heading for Spirit Prison! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #54 January 29, 2008 You said President Hinckley was a residnet of Kolob right. That is wrong as you know. He is in the spirit world, wherever that is. I can't believe I am talking about Kolob. Last time I did that it was with a mormon hater when I was on my mission is Sweden. And since you are a residnet of Utah you will get a free pass from spirit prison. The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #55 January 29, 2008 QuoteAs I stated above, the only reason for my OP was to honor and pay my respects on behalf of President Hinckley's death,not start a theological argument. Quote Yeah, but this is Speaker's Corner. I hear ya but it's not really the place..."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites moodyskydiver 0 #56 January 29, 2008 Nowhere in our doctrine that I or my family members have ever been through..not the sealing ceremony or endowments does it say we will be god over another planet.It states that there are kingdoms without end and as God is so shall we be LIKE him.We strive through our actions and conduct for a "level of perfection".Thats what President Snow was referring to,IMHO. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites moodyskydiver 0 #57 January 29, 2008 QuoteYeah, but this is Speaker's Corner. I hear ya but it's not really the place... what does the forum intro state this forum is for? "A Soap Box in Cyber Space. The place for sociological and political discussions." I knew from the beginning that there would be a backlash about my post so I thought this was an appropriate place since it would have been moved here anyway due to all the arguing.It plainly states in the Bonfire (where I would like to have posted this) "Please take politics, guns and religion** to the Speakers Corner. " **emphasis mine not HH's "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bclark 0 #58 January 29, 2008 Quote I disagree with that comment, watch 'this divided state'. There was no respect whatsoever whenever anyone questioned the morality of those that opposed the beleifs of the morman. This coming from someone who bases their opinion on what they saw in a Michael Moore film. And who doesn't even know how to SPELL mormon. If you saw it on TV or in a movie it MUST be true, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,595 #59 January 29, 2008 QuoteI can't believe I am talking about Kolob. Last time I did that it was with a mormon hater when I was on my mission is Sweden. That must have been very worthwhile. Did you find much crippling poverty to combat in a wealthy western nation with an extensive social security network?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #60 January 30, 2008 Quote And since you are a residnet of Utah you will get a free pass from spirit prison. Utah residents no longer get a free pass unless they first prepare a home in Adam-ondi-ahman. Alas...Missouri is a nice place, but not for me. My heart lies in the desert. I need mountains, too. Not those pathetic bumps in the ground they call "hills." BTW, The Osmonds record label is Kolob Records.Moody, you have got SO MUCH to learn about the LDS faith. Aside from all the many references in the D&C, Journal of Discourses, the many writings of J. Smith, B. Young, etc...part of the temple endowment ceremony indeed, is to promise that each person worthy of the Celestial Kingdom will be a god himself. Some easily found citations: “…you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves,…as all Gods have done before you…”(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith) “…We are gods in embryo, and thus have an unlimited potential for progress and attainment. (Ezra Taft Benson) “The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself…” (Journal of Discourses) “…you have within your hands the possibility to become a god and pass by the angels and the gods…” (Spencer W. Kimball) If you wanna believe in Mormonism, that's fine. If it makes your life better, that's terrific. If it provides you some measure of comfort as you contemplate death, terrific!!! However, it's not a basis around which a government should be operated, nor a basis around which a society as a whole can function, and most importantly, I don't need people knocking on my door to knock on my life to tell me how miserable I am for not believing any more. I can't wait for the day an atheist knocks on my door to tell me that nothing is happening and I don't need to be afraid of anything. I hope he/she is wearing a tye-dye shirt and blue jeans. Or levi jacket, holding a bottle of cool centenary Oban. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #61 January 30, 2008 Quotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #62 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AWL71 0 #63 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them? How can you respect beliefs when you don't understand them? Or are you an expert on Mormonism like you are everything else? If that is the case then your lack of "diversity" is showing. I thought "diversity" was a hallmark liberal quality.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #64 January 30, 2008 The secret handshakes, just like those you had as a child in your secret clubs, are the same concept; it's so you know who you're meeting and know if they're part of your group or not. In the LDS world, this is fairly important, as the handshakes take place through a veil, and you must give the correct handshake before being permitted through the veil. You can see the veil here and here. Secret Handshake 1 Secret Handshake 2 (notice the position of the thumb) handshake 3 It's not just special pants in the temple, it's special clothing that is never worn outside the temple except in your casket. Many people are buried in their temple clothes. I've never known an active member of the church who wasn't. Temple clothing is all white other than the apron, which represents the clothing Adam wore in the Garden, therefore it is green. It is referred to as a symbol of Satan and his power. Outside of the temple, those that have had their endowments are required to wear "garments." You can see what garments look like here. There are the crazies that will say that their garments will protect them from bullets and bad accidents. YouTube has 3-4 videos from people talking about various situations such as being in the war, and everywhere the garment covered, bullets didn't penetrate. There is one where a man talks about being in WWII and his plane crashed, and he was badly burned, except where covered by his garments. It is very important to note that this is not church doctrine. You'll hear bullshit general authorities within the church relate these stories (particularly the infamous liar of liars, Paul H. Dunn, busted for telling hundreds of lies from the LDS pulpit on international television over the years and later gracefully removed from his position as an active General Authority), but the concept of Garments protecting you from harm is not a church doctrine itself. To tell or see any of these things literally is life-threatening. The LDS members of this forum will be tremendously offended, and any older LDS person will be sickened to see that their secret ceremonies are now entirely on the web in video and textual form with photos. To them, I apologize for the offense, but I'm not the one who took the pictures, video, or recorded/transcoded the ceremonies in the temple. Until 10 years ago, each time the temple was visited, each person agrees three times in the ceremony that they'll take their own life as penalty for speaking of any temple ordinance at any time outside the temple. This includes being in church. You may not speak of any aspect of the temple experience outside the temple. Sidetrack:The Paul H Dunn chronicle is one that all Mormons should read/be aware of. He claimed to have saved a platoon in WWII, once the internet came out it was proven to be false. He claimed to have been a major league baseball player and struck out big name stars like Ted Williams. False. He claimed he'd saved Japanese kids in Saipan. He'd never been to Saipan. Paul Dunn told stories and wrote books. He was the hero of the youths of the 60's and 70's, including me. He quietly apologized for his lies, and brought forth the then-thought-dead concept of "Lying for the Lord." (Google it) Glenn Beck is more recently suspected of using this license to prevaricate, as is Mitt Romney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #65 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them? How can you respect beliefs when you don't understand them? Or are you an expert on Mormonism like you are everything else? If that is the case then your lack of "diversity" is showing. I thought "diversity" was a hallmark liberal quality. "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AWL71 0 #66 January 30, 2008 QuoteThe secret handshakes, just like those you had as a child in your secret clubs, are the same concept; it's so you know who you're meeting and know if they're part of your group or not. In the LDS world, this is fairly important, as the handshakes take place through a veil, and you must give the correct handshake before being permitted through the veil. You can see the veil here and here. Secret Handshake 1 Secret Handshake 2 (notice the position of the thumb) handshake 3 It's not just special pants in the temple, it's special clothing that is never worn outside the temple except in your casket. Many people are buried in their temple clothes. I've never known an active member of the church who wasn't. Temple clothing is all white other than the apron, which represents the clothing Adam wore in the Garden, therefore it is green. It is referred to as a symbol of Satan and his power. Outside of the temple, those that have had their endowments are required to wear "garments." You can see what garments look like here. There are the crazies that will say that their garments will protect them from bullets and bad accidents. YouTube has 3-4 videos from people talking about various situations such as being in the war, and everywhere the garment covered, bullets didn't penetrate. There is one where a man talks about being in WWII and his plane crashed, and he was badly burned, except where covered by his garments. It is very important to note that this is not church doctrine. You'll hear bullshit general authorities within the church relate these stories (particularly the infamous liar of liars, Paul H. Dunn, busted for telling hundreds of lies from the LDS pulpit on international television over the years and later gracefully removed from his position as an active General Authority), but the concept of Garments protecting you from harm is not a church doctrine itself. To tell or see any of these things literally is life-threatening. The LDS members of this forum will be tremendously offended, and any older LDS person will be sickened to see that their secret ceremonies are now entirely on the web in video and textual form with photos. To them, I apologize for the offense, but I'm not the one who took the pictures, video, or recorded/transcoded the ceremonies in the temple. Until 10 years ago, each time the temple was visited, each person agrees three times in the ceremony that they'll take their own life as penalty for speaking of any temple ordinance at any time outside the temple. This includes being in church. You may not speak of any aspect of the temple experience outside the temple. Sidetrack:The Paul H Dunn chronicle is one that all Mormons should read/be aware of. He claimed to have saved a platoon in WWII, once the internet came out it was proven to be false. He claimed to have been a major league baseball player and struck out big name stars like Ted Williams. False. He claimed he'd saved Japanese kids in Saipan. He'd never been to Saipan. Paul Dunn told stories and wrote books. He was the hero of the youths of the 60's and 70's, including me. He quietly apologized for his lies, and brought forth the then-thought-dead concept of "Lying for the Lord." (Google it) Glenn Beck is more recently suspected of using this license to prevaricate, as is Mitt Romney. I knew it was only a matter of time. The temple ordinances are not a secret anymore and have not been for a long time. You could walk into any Christian bookstore and find anti-mormon books that detailed our temple ceremonies. I consider them sacred, not secret. I respect the commitments I have made. If anybody has any questions feel free to PM me.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AWL71 0 #67 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them? How can you respect beliefs when you don't understand them? Or are you an expert on Mormonism like you are everything else? If that is the case then your lack of "diversity" is showing. I thought "diversity" was a hallmark liberal quality. "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible. So you think my beliefs are silly. Fine by me. That says more about you than it does me.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #68 January 30, 2008 Solution!!Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #69 January 30, 2008 Quote "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible. So you think my beliefs are silly. Fine by me. That says more about you than it does me. Yes, it says that you are prepared to believe illogical propositions and assertions that have absolutely no objective evidence to support them, and I am not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AWL71 0 #70 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuote "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible. So you think my beliefs are silly. Fine by me. That says more about you than it does me. Yes, it says that you are prepared to believe illogical propositions and assertions that have absolutely no objective evidence to support them, and I am not. It also says you are too feeble minded to have faith in anything. It all depends how you spin it.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moodyskydiver 0 #56 January 29, 2008 Nowhere in our doctrine that I or my family members have ever been through..not the sealing ceremony or endowments does it say we will be god over another planet.It states that there are kingdoms without end and as God is so shall we be LIKE him.We strive through our actions and conduct for a "level of perfection".Thats what President Snow was referring to,IMHO. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moodyskydiver 0 #57 January 29, 2008 QuoteYeah, but this is Speaker's Corner. I hear ya but it's not really the place... what does the forum intro state this forum is for? "A Soap Box in Cyber Space. The place for sociological and political discussions." I knew from the beginning that there would be a backlash about my post so I thought this was an appropriate place since it would have been moved here anyway due to all the arguing.It plainly states in the Bonfire (where I would like to have posted this) "Please take politics, guns and religion** to the Speakers Corner. " **emphasis mine not HH's "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bclark 0 #58 January 29, 2008 Quote I disagree with that comment, watch 'this divided state'. There was no respect whatsoever whenever anyone questioned the morality of those that opposed the beleifs of the morman. This coming from someone who bases their opinion on what they saw in a Michael Moore film. And who doesn't even know how to SPELL mormon. If you saw it on TV or in a movie it MUST be true, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #59 January 29, 2008 QuoteI can't believe I am talking about Kolob. Last time I did that it was with a mormon hater when I was on my mission is Sweden. That must have been very worthwhile. Did you find much crippling poverty to combat in a wealthy western nation with an extensive social security network?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #60 January 30, 2008 Quote And since you are a residnet of Utah you will get a free pass from spirit prison. Utah residents no longer get a free pass unless they first prepare a home in Adam-ondi-ahman. Alas...Missouri is a nice place, but not for me. My heart lies in the desert. I need mountains, too. Not those pathetic bumps in the ground they call "hills." BTW, The Osmonds record label is Kolob Records.Moody, you have got SO MUCH to learn about the LDS faith. Aside from all the many references in the D&C, Journal of Discourses, the many writings of J. Smith, B. Young, etc...part of the temple endowment ceremony indeed, is to promise that each person worthy of the Celestial Kingdom will be a god himself. Some easily found citations: “…you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves,…as all Gods have done before you…”(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith) “…We are gods in embryo, and thus have an unlimited potential for progress and attainment. (Ezra Taft Benson) “The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself…” (Journal of Discourses) “…you have within your hands the possibility to become a god and pass by the angels and the gods…” (Spencer W. Kimball) If you wanna believe in Mormonism, that's fine. If it makes your life better, that's terrific. If it provides you some measure of comfort as you contemplate death, terrific!!! However, it's not a basis around which a government should be operated, nor a basis around which a society as a whole can function, and most importantly, I don't need people knocking on my door to knock on my life to tell me how miserable I am for not believing any more. I can't wait for the day an atheist knocks on my door to tell me that nothing is happening and I don't need to be afraid of anything. I hope he/she is wearing a tye-dye shirt and blue jeans. Or levi jacket, holding a bottle of cool centenary Oban. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #61 January 30, 2008 Quotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #62 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #63 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them? How can you respect beliefs when you don't understand them? Or are you an expert on Mormonism like you are everything else? If that is the case then your lack of "diversity" is showing. I thought "diversity" was a hallmark liberal quality.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #64 January 30, 2008 The secret handshakes, just like those you had as a child in your secret clubs, are the same concept; it's so you know who you're meeting and know if they're part of your group or not. In the LDS world, this is fairly important, as the handshakes take place through a veil, and you must give the correct handshake before being permitted through the veil. You can see the veil here and here. Secret Handshake 1 Secret Handshake 2 (notice the position of the thumb) handshake 3 It's not just special pants in the temple, it's special clothing that is never worn outside the temple except in your casket. Many people are buried in their temple clothes. I've never known an active member of the church who wasn't. Temple clothing is all white other than the apron, which represents the clothing Adam wore in the Garden, therefore it is green. It is referred to as a symbol of Satan and his power. Outside of the temple, those that have had their endowments are required to wear "garments." You can see what garments look like here. There are the crazies that will say that their garments will protect them from bullets and bad accidents. YouTube has 3-4 videos from people talking about various situations such as being in the war, and everywhere the garment covered, bullets didn't penetrate. There is one where a man talks about being in WWII and his plane crashed, and he was badly burned, except where covered by his garments. It is very important to note that this is not church doctrine. You'll hear bullshit general authorities within the church relate these stories (particularly the infamous liar of liars, Paul H. Dunn, busted for telling hundreds of lies from the LDS pulpit on international television over the years and later gracefully removed from his position as an active General Authority), but the concept of Garments protecting you from harm is not a church doctrine itself. To tell or see any of these things literally is life-threatening. The LDS members of this forum will be tremendously offended, and any older LDS person will be sickened to see that their secret ceremonies are now entirely on the web in video and textual form with photos. To them, I apologize for the offense, but I'm not the one who took the pictures, video, or recorded/transcoded the ceremonies in the temple. Until 10 years ago, each time the temple was visited, each person agrees three times in the ceremony that they'll take their own life as penalty for speaking of any temple ordinance at any time outside the temple. This includes being in church. You may not speak of any aspect of the temple experience outside the temple. Sidetrack:The Paul H Dunn chronicle is one that all Mormons should read/be aware of. He claimed to have saved a platoon in WWII, once the internet came out it was proven to be false. He claimed to have been a major league baseball player and struck out big name stars like Ted Williams. False. He claimed he'd saved Japanese kids in Saipan. He'd never been to Saipan. Paul Dunn told stories and wrote books. He was the hero of the youths of the 60's and 70's, including me. He quietly apologized for his lies, and brought forth the then-thought-dead concept of "Lying for the Lord." (Google it) Glenn Beck is more recently suspected of using this license to prevaricate, as is Mitt Romney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #65 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them? How can you respect beliefs when you don't understand them? Or are you an expert on Mormonism like you are everything else? If that is the case then your lack of "diversity" is showing. I thought "diversity" was a hallmark liberal quality. "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #66 January 30, 2008 QuoteThe secret handshakes, just like those you had as a child in your secret clubs, are the same concept; it's so you know who you're meeting and know if they're part of your group or not. In the LDS world, this is fairly important, as the handshakes take place through a veil, and you must give the correct handshake before being permitted through the veil. You can see the veil here and here. Secret Handshake 1 Secret Handshake 2 (notice the position of the thumb) handshake 3 It's not just special pants in the temple, it's special clothing that is never worn outside the temple except in your casket. Many people are buried in their temple clothes. I've never known an active member of the church who wasn't. Temple clothing is all white other than the apron, which represents the clothing Adam wore in the Garden, therefore it is green. It is referred to as a symbol of Satan and his power. Outside of the temple, those that have had their endowments are required to wear "garments." You can see what garments look like here. There are the crazies that will say that their garments will protect them from bullets and bad accidents. YouTube has 3-4 videos from people talking about various situations such as being in the war, and everywhere the garment covered, bullets didn't penetrate. There is one where a man talks about being in WWII and his plane crashed, and he was badly burned, except where covered by his garments. It is very important to note that this is not church doctrine. You'll hear bullshit general authorities within the church relate these stories (particularly the infamous liar of liars, Paul H. Dunn, busted for telling hundreds of lies from the LDS pulpit on international television over the years and later gracefully removed from his position as an active General Authority), but the concept of Garments protecting you from harm is not a church doctrine itself. To tell or see any of these things literally is life-threatening. The LDS members of this forum will be tremendously offended, and any older LDS person will be sickened to see that their secret ceremonies are now entirely on the web in video and textual form with photos. To them, I apologize for the offense, but I'm not the one who took the pictures, video, or recorded/transcoded the ceremonies in the temple. Until 10 years ago, each time the temple was visited, each person agrees three times in the ceremony that they'll take their own life as penalty for speaking of any temple ordinance at any time outside the temple. This includes being in church. You may not speak of any aspect of the temple experience outside the temple. Sidetrack:The Paul H Dunn chronicle is one that all Mormons should read/be aware of. He claimed to have saved a platoon in WWII, once the internet came out it was proven to be false. He claimed to have been a major league baseball player and struck out big name stars like Ted Williams. False. He claimed he'd saved Japanese kids in Saipan. He'd never been to Saipan. Paul Dunn told stories and wrote books. He was the hero of the youths of the 60's and 70's, including me. He quietly apologized for his lies, and brought forth the then-thought-dead concept of "Lying for the Lord." (Google it) Glenn Beck is more recently suspected of using this license to prevaricate, as is Mitt Romney. I knew it was only a matter of time. The temple ordinances are not a secret anymore and have not been for a long time. You could walk into any Christian bookstore and find anti-mormon books that detailed our temple ceremonies. I consider them sacred, not secret. I respect the commitments I have made. If anybody has any questions feel free to PM me.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #67 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethe Celestial, Telestial, or Terrestrial rooms...those are reserved for folks that have had endowments done. What are those rooms? Quote(even though I agreed to commit suicide if I ever spoke of my temple experiences). Would you like to know my wife's secret name? Secret handshakes? (For accuracy, the suicide pact was removed from the temple ceremonies in 1996). Seriously? What is a secret name and why are they used? Secret handshakes? Is it true that people wear special pants in the Temple? And what is endowments? Is there any point at which beliefs get so silly that you cease to respect them? How can you respect beliefs when you don't understand them? Or are you an expert on Mormonism like you are everything else? If that is the case then your lack of "diversity" is showing. I thought "diversity" was a hallmark liberal quality. "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible. So you think my beliefs are silly. Fine by me. That says more about you than it does me.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #68 January 30, 2008 Solution!!Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #69 January 30, 2008 Quote "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible. So you think my beliefs are silly. Fine by me. That says more about you than it does me. Yes, it says that you are prepared to believe illogical propositions and assertions that have absolutely no objective evidence to support them, and I am not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #70 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuote "Diversity" is a pretty poor defense of silly beliefs. Can't you do better than that? On the whole I find the FSM more credible. So you think my beliefs are silly. Fine by me. That says more about you than it does me. Yes, it says that you are prepared to believe illogical propositions and assertions that have absolutely no objective evidence to support them, and I am not. It also says you are too feeble minded to have faith in anything. It all depends how you spin it.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #71 January 30, 2008 QuoteIt also says you are too feeble minded to have faith in anything. It all depends how you spin it. Well, no. What you just said doesn't even make sense. How can you be too feeble minded to believe something? Most would say that gullibillity and feeblemindedness are closer bedfellows.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #72 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteIt also says you are too feeble minded to have faith in anything. It all depends how you spin it. Well, no. What you just said doesn't even make sense. How can you be too feeble minded to believe something? Most would say that gullibillity and feeblemindedness are closer bedfellows. It is easy to have a belief in something. A belief in God (AKA higher power, etc.) requires faith. I can't prove that God exists but I know he does. Faith is a belief in something not seen. My statement was to feeble minded to have faith in something, not belief in something. There is a difference.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #73 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt also says you are too feeble minded to have faith in anything. It all depends how you spin it. Well, no. What you just said doesn't even make sense. How can you be too feeble minded to believe something? Most would say that gullibillity and feeblemindedness are closer bedfellows. It is easy to have a belief in something. A belief in God (AKA higher power, etc.) requires faith. I can't prove that God exists but I know he does. . You don't KNOW anything of the sort. Don't confuse knowledge with faith.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #74 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt also says you are too feeble minded to have faith in anything. It all depends how you spin it. Well, no. What you just said doesn't even make sense. How can you be too feeble minded to believe something? Most would say that gullibillity and feeblemindedness are closer bedfellows. It is easy to have a belief in something. A belief in God (AKA higher power, etc.) requires faith. I can't prove that God exists but I know he does. . You don't KNOW anything of the sort. Don't confuse knowledge with faith. Put your money where your mouth is and PROVE it. I can't prove that God exists and more than you can prove that he doesn't exist. I just love it when other people tell you what you can and can't believe.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #75 January 30, 2008 QuoteI just love it when other people tell you what you can and can't believe. He said you don't know it, not that you can't believe it. QuoteI can't prove that God exists and more than you can prove that he doesn't exist. So what? You can't prove there isn't a Goblin standing on my shoulder calling you a girls name, doesn't mean the probability of it existing is 50%.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
