What will you do with YOUR economic stimulus money?

[auburnguy 0]

hookers and vicodin.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[Gawain 0]

Quote

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/24/economic.stimulus/index.html

Which products would you buy that would actually stimulate the US economy?

Think about this one.

As we are not in a recession, I do not understand why we need a stimulus. The Fed and Congressional Budget Office are not forecasting anything other than slow growth, which is....you got it: GROWTH.

As for those that will get "rebate", why not just reduce taxes further instead? The US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world (next to Japan) and our progressive tax schedule is a waste.

Billions could be saved in bureaucracy by adopting flat tax. It could be simpler than a national sales tax (which I like, but not without repealing the 16th amendment).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[freethefly 6]

Quote

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/24/economic.stimulus/index.html

Which products would you buy that would actually stimulate the US economy?

Think about this one.

Watching the news tonight, someone was saying that the whitehouse hopes that people do not use this money to pay down a bill or use it for food but to buy an item such as a tv, dvd player... and such as by doing that will help to create new jobs. How in the hell will buying crap made in China create jobs in the US. If I get anything back, I'm paying one of the many doctor bills I have piling up.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rushmc 23]

Quote

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/24/economic.stimulus/index.html

Which products would you buy that would actually stimulate the US economy?

Think about this one.

I really hope I am following you here but, this whole thing is a joke and a bad deal

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>That would meet the criteria - - stimulation.

In more ways than one!

My new proposal - this money, by law, should only be spent on hookers (where legal of course) strippers, Jack Daniels or other US-made spirits, or McDonald's. Contribution to charity (as Bush did with his first rebate check) savings, paying off mortgages, paying off student loans etc should be strictly prohibited as contrary to the spirit of the rebate and the spirit of the age.

Can I come to your party? I will bring my check!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

So who really won the 2nd world war....

..in the end.

"Business is war, Connor-san..."

(Name that movie)

[quade 4]

Quote

How in the hell will buying crap made in China create jobs in the US.

Bingo! We have a winner!

Yes, this was my point from the very start. The concept is stupid from the get go.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DSE 5]

I'm going to use my 1200.00 to pay for a trip to Eloy, pay for gas to get there, pay for jump tix, and pay for food cooked at the Bent Prop.
It's not cheap crap from China, but it does help employ manifest, gas station attendants, the people at RI, PD, L&B, Square 2, Skyrider Inn, Chevy, Firestone, the cooks at the Bent Prop, their suppliers, Larry Hill, Betsy Barnhouse, and a host of others employed.
Plus, I need wingsuit coaching from Scott Campos, so his flight, lodging, fuel, food all equal or surpass my efforts to keep the economy rolling...
I might buy some cheap crap from china while at Costco, who sends so much of their money overseas too, but damn...I love those hotdogs.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

And by the way, this still doesn't even come close to making up for the tax breaks given to the top earners over the course of the Bush admin. Overall, you still did pretty well.

What tax breaks would those be, exactly?

Quote

This money will seem a pittance when Hillary gets into office.

Nobody will have any LEFT, once Hildabeast gets in office.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I forget who said it, but I recall a quote along the lines of "democracy will survive only until the government realizes they can bribe people with their own money."

"Vote for Joe! He will give you a check for $1000!"

"Vote for Phil! He'll give you $2000! He's twice as generous."

Heinlein:

Quote

Quote

"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which
there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a
state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite,
that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs
discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and
that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will
do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the
state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

Quote

"A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote
and all votes count equally has no internal feedback for self correction.
It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens...which is
opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is
supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will
always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But
what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees
it...which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses'"

Alexander Tyler:

Quote

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from
the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the
candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the
result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always
followed by dictatorship.
- Alexander Fraser Tyler,'The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic'.

PJ O'Rourke:

Quote

Imagine if all of life were determined by majority rule. Every meal would
be a pizza. Every pair of pants, even those in a Brooks Brothers suit,
would be stone-washed denim. Celebrity diet and exercise books would be the
only thing on the shelves at the library. And since women are a majority of
the population, we'd all be married to Mel Gibson.
- P.J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

How in the hell will buying crap made in China create jobs in the US.

China, Most Favored Nation courtesy of the last administration. I'm sure her Walmart stock made some nice money for Hillary.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

Quote

And by the way, this still doesn't even come close to making up for the tax breaks given to the top earners over the course of the Bush admin. Overall, you still did pretty well.

What tax breaks would those be, exactly?

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Darius11 12]

This is another one of those things that makes me have a Lewis Black moment.

They should call it a gift as the people who pay NOTHING in to the tax system will get the full benefit.

I guess I don’t get it. I figured a tax credit means you get a credit on taxes you have paid. They should call it a gift or maybe better yet a financial rape because I don’t remember anyone asking me if I wanted to give my money to people who pay no taxes.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And by the way, this still doesn't even come close to making up for the tax breaks given to the top earners over the course of the Bush admin. Overall, you still did pretty well.

What tax breaks would those be, exactly?

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Ok, and? Oh, wait... it's more of the "the rich aren't paying their share" thing, isn't it?


Comparisons between 2004 and 2005 (from information available on the CBO site) show the following:

2004:
Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.2% 67.2%
Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3% 0.9%

2005:
Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.5% 68.7%
Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3% 0.8%

When Reagan cut the top tax rate from 50% to 28%, contributions by those affected went from 9% of the total to 18% of the total. Contributions from the bottom 20% went from 6% of the total down to 2%. Looks like much the same effect is happening with this tax cut, to a smaller extent.

Contrary to Democrat dogma and class envy, the rich are still paying the lion's share of the tax burden.

*edited to fix my boo-boo with the numbers - I read the wrong chart, my apologies.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Darius11 12]

Quote

the rich are still paying the lion's share of the tax burden

First let apologize as I am jumping in to this discussion and I have not read every post.

I do believe the Middle Class pay the biggest share of the total taxes is this not correct?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[mirage62 0]

Does anyone really believe anyone in this country needs to pay MORE taxes? Not “Tax the rich and lower the taxes on the middle class” I’m asking does the government need more tax income? We need responsible spending not more money to spend.

Either you believe in a progressive tax code or not. The “rich” pay more dollars – which is how you pay the bills. Period.

The argument is and always will be that if you make XXXX dollars than “your rich” and should be taxed more cause I only make XX. Of course the person who makes X feels that XX is rich and should be taxed more. XX and X both dislike XXXX cause he is REAL rich.

And that the XXXXXXXXXX truth

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

First let apologize as I am jumping in to this discussion and I have not read every post.

G'morning, Dar - no worries.

Quote

I do believe the Middle Class pay the biggest share of the total taxes is this not correct?

According to the information from the CBO, the top 10% of earners pay 54.7% of the total tax burden. The top 20%, as stated up-thread, pay 68.7% (2005 data).

As an aside - in 1993, the top 10% paid 44.9% of the total tax burden, and the top 20% paid 60.5%.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[piper17 1]

Close....reduce taxes, reduce expenditures, reduce the stupid regulations that hinder business growth and watch the economy take off.

Government isn't the solution to problems. Government is the problem.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Close....reduce taxes, reduce expenditures, reduce the stupid regulations that hinder business growth and watch the economy take off.

Government isn't the solution to problems. Government is the problem.

Agreed.

From the IMF:
“This tax induced distortion in economic behavior results in a net effi­ciency loss to the whole economy, commonly referred to as the ‘excess burden of taxation,’ even if the government engages in exactly the same activities—and with the same degree of efficiency—as the private sector with the tax revenue so raised.”

From the Journal of Monetary Economics:
“There is substantial crowding out of private spending by government spending.…Permanent changes in government spending lead to a negative wealth effect.”

From a study by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas:
“Growth in government stunts general economic growth. Increases in govern­ment spending or taxes lead to persistent decreases in the rate of job growth.”

Now, all we need to do is get those porkers in Congress away from the public trough across the board...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

And by the way, this still doesn't even come close to making up for the tax breaks given to the top earners over the course of the Bush admin. Overall, you still did pretty well.

What tax breaks would those be, exactly?

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Ok, and? Oh, wait... it's more of the "the rich aren't paying their share" thing, isn't it?


Comparisons between 2004 and 2005 (from information available on the CBO site) show the following:

2004:
Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.2%
Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3%

2005:
Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.5%
Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3%

When Reagan cut the top tax rate from 50% to 28%, contributions by those affected went from 9% of the total to 18% of the total. Contributions from the bottom 20% went from 6% of the total down to 2%. Looks like much the same effect is happening with this tax cut, to a smaller extent.

Contrary to Democrat dogma and class envy, the rich are still paying the lion's share of the tax burden.

They pay more because they have gotten exponentially richer due to other Bush policies. The gap between the rich and non-rich has never been wider. The rich are staying ahead of inflation - the rest of us are not. Indexed to inflation, most people's income has been decrasing since Bush took office, except the very wealthy.

Luckily, things will be put right after the elections.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Luckily, things will be put right after the elections.

Yup.... kill that golden goose to get at the eggs now, rather than feeding it so you can KEEP getting eggs.

"Rob the rich and pay the poor, until there are no rich no more"

As I thought... another class envy whine...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,118]

> Close....reduce taxes, reduce expenditures . . .

You have to do both. But the only sane way to do it is reduce expenditures FIRST, THEN reduce taxes. If you do it the opposite way there is no reason to ever reduce expenditures.

>reduce the stupid regulations that hinder business growth . . .

Which ones?

> and watch the economy take off.

Again, historically the economy does better when taxes are high. So "the economy will take off if we reduce taxes" is unsupportable. It's a LOT more complex than that.

[piper17 1]

What is wrong with the gap between rich and poor becoming wider?

Is it becoming wider because the rich are growing ever richer and the poor are growing richer at a slower rate? Why are the "poor" becoming poorer?

Could it be because they drop out of school, become addicted to drugs/alcohol, engage in various risky behaviors rather than complete school, learn a skill/trade, go to work regularly? Or, if their jobs are eliminated, they fail to do anything to learn new ones?

This country offers an abundance of opportunities to those willing to do what it takes to get ahead. Heck, why do you think we are being overrun with illegal aliens? It sure isn't because this country doesn't offer people an opportunity to make a decent living. If that was the case, they would stay home!

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

Quote

Luckily, things will be put right after the elections.

Yup.... kill that golden goose to get at the eggs now, rather than feeding it so you can KEEP getting eggs.

"Rob the rich and pay the poor, until there are no rich no more"

As I thought... another class envy whine...

Class envy? FU#$ U class envy. I have all the class I need. It's about fairness and a shared prosperity. Class envy is some fucked up right wing term they coined to make themselves feel superior somehow.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

Could it be because they drop out of school, become addicted to drugs/alcohol, engage in various risky behaviors rather than complete school, learn a skill/trade, go to work regularly? Or, if their jobs are eliminated, they fail to do anything to learn new ones?

It could be. But I can point you to a lot of drug addicted lazy dropouts with millions in the bank too.
There are lots of working poor in America. There are lots of very hard working people that can barely make ends meet. I'm not sure what planet some of you live on, but here in the real world, things are tough out there.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.