Butters 0 #26 January 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteShould everyone be given a house, car, gun, etc... because we have public schools, public roads, etc...? You chose to insert yourself. And you choose not to answer my question."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #27 January 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteFunny that people who use public services feel so bad about paying for them. It's more likely that they feel bad about paying more for them than they get out of them -- to make up for people who can't or won't pay for them, but use them anyway. So it's OK to pay less than you get in public services, but not more. No wonder we are up to our eyes in debt. Gee, another strawman argument to try to justify enforced charity by government fiat...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #28 January 23, 2008 QuoteSo it's OK to pay less than you get in public services, but not more. No wonder we are up to our eyes in debt. Not sure how you derived that from my comment. In a perfect world, we'd all pay in exactly what we get out of public services. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29 January 23, 2008 Quote .. obvious to anyone who thinks about it. Yeah like THAT is going to happen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #30 January 23, 2008 http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2583432Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #31 January 23, 2008 Public services. I guess I missed that part of the Constitution where it says that healthcare, schools, social security, medicare, etc are the responsibility of the federal government to provide and, as such, the federal government has a right to tax us for them. Not only that, but the federal government is obligated to provide them to people who are not even citizens of this country (read "illegal aliens"). People should be financing their own healthcare and public schools are the responsibility of local and state governments - if it is an obligation of any form of government. Plus, look at the poor job that public schools are doing in educating the children of today...and it is certainly not for a lack of money."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #32 January 23, 2008 QuoteNo Neal, he's right, you're right, poor people suck and god damnit, SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN HEALTHCARE. Just as us good GOPers know that dropping 2 atomic bombs on women and children was a good idea to coerce their men fighting at war to relent, dissallowing grubby poor people from healthcare i a better idea. You nd me Neal, sing together: FUCK POOR PEOPLE, THIS IS AMERICA GOD DAMNIT! I don't mind poor people at all. I just wish they would stay in school long enough to figure out spelling and grammar." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #33 January 23, 2008 QuotePublic services. I guess I missed that part of the Constitution where it says that healthcare, schools, social security, medicare, etc are the responsibility of the federal government to provide and, as such, the federal government has a right to tax us for them. Not only that, but the federal government is obligated to provide them to people who are not even citizens of this country (read "illegal aliens"). People should be financing their own healthcare and public schools are the responsibility of local and state governments - if it is an obligation of any form of government. Plus, look at the poor job that public schools are doing in educating the children of today...and it is certainly not for a lack of money. Did you attend a public school or college? Do you drive on public roads?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #34 January 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFunny that people who use public services feel so bad about paying for them. It's more likely that they feel bad about paying more for them than they get out of them -- to make up for people who can't or won't pay for them, but use them anyway. So it's OK to pay less than you get in public services, but not more. No wonder we are up to our eyes in debt. Gee, another strawman argument to try to justify enforced charity by government fiat... Are public schools "charity"? Are public roads "charity"? Is air traffic control "charity"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #35 January 23, 2008 Our public schools are failing our children, our roads are in constant need of repair, and ATC is on the verge of charging user fees. I would be all for universal health care if the government could run anything without making a mess of it, but such is not the case. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll retain control of my own health care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #36 January 23, 2008 QuoteDid you attend a public school or college? Yes. QuoteDo you drive on public roads? Yes. Now, answer my question. Should everyone be given a house, car, gun, etc... because we have public schools, public roads, etc...?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #37 January 23, 2008 QuoteOur public schools are failing our children, our roads are in constant need of repair, and ATC is on the verge of charging user fees. I would be all for universal health care if the government could run anything without making a mess of it, but such is not the case. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll retain control of my own health care. The only systemic failures are those engineered by right wing politicians unwilling to get the electorate to pay for what they want.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #38 January 23, 2008 And you think he will answer a straight forward question? bwawawae4awwawawawwawaThat's the best jok today in SC... "According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #39 January 23, 2008 > I guess I missed that part of the Constitution where it says that >healthcare, schools, social security, medicare, etc are the responsibility of >the federal government to provide . .. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." >and, as such, the federal government has a right to tax us for them. "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers . . ." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #40 January 23, 2008 promote=provide. Gotcha."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #41 January 23, 2008 Quote And you think he will answer a straight forward question? bwawawae4awwawawawwawaThat's the best jok today in SC... No, I don't. PS: Some people pay taxes to build bridges to drive over while some people pay taxes to build bridges to live under ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #42 January 23, 2008 What I was referring to, is that if he can not throw a strowman argument there, then he will never be capable to answer a single opinion question that is not within "GW is a liar, or the most yada yada...."lines"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #43 January 23, 2008 QuotePS: Some people pay taxes to build bridges to drive over while some people pay taxes to build bridges to live under ... And a lot of right wing people want more and more tax cuts.. while so many of our bridges and other infrastructure rusts away. BUT they can still have a nice little adventure in Iraq with a whole lot of right wing Friends of the Admistration getting rich on cost plus no bid contracts. Just more of the same from the something for nothing crowd. You want services and roads and education.. but are not willing to pay for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #44 January 23, 2008 QuoteQuotePS: Some people pay taxes to build bridges to drive over while some people pay taxes to build bridges to live under ... And a lot of right wing people want more and more tax cuts.. while so many of our bridges and other infrastructure rusts away. BUT they can still have a nice little adventure in Iraq with a whole lot of right wing Friends of the Admistration getting rich on cost plus no bid contracts. Just more of the same from the something for nothing crowd. You want services and roads and education.. but are not willing to pay for it. You don't know anything about me because you lack reading and comprehension skills. PS: I hope the bridge doesn't collapse while you're living under it."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #45 January 23, 2008 >you lack reading and comprehension skills. Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #46 January 23, 2008 Does "promote the general welfare" mean that the federal government has the right to tax its citizens and then redistribute that money as it sees fit? If we take your concept further, then I guess the federal government should be paying to heat and cool our homes (or, for that matter, supply us with homes in which to live), provide clothing for us all to wear, and how about paying for everyone's vacation so we can relieve the stress of work (at least for those of us who do). Promote does NOT mean to provide. The dictionary defines promote as: "To urge the adoption of; advocate. To attempt to sell or popularize" !"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #47 January 23, 2008 QuoteThe only systemic failures are those engineered by right wing politicians unwilling to get the electorate to pay for what they want. Almost correct. Is should read as follows: QuoteThe only systemic failures are those engineered by right wing politicians unwilling to get the electorate to pay for what they want. On another note, I think that engineering is a good way of looking at politics. Politicians attempt to engineer the society they want. And attempts at engineering get tested as prototypes before production because we don't want to unleash something that can cause harm and doesn't work. The problems are, for the most part, worked out and you can move forward. Look at politicians as Microsoft and healthcare as Vista. A whole lot of issues to be worked out, and there is a legitimate chance that it just won't work as advertised. The only difference is that failed programs do not die. They keep pumping money to try to fix them instead of scrapping the idea and trying something else. Or, even worse, instead of merely fixing the kinks in a system they seek major overhaul wherein the cure is worse than the disease. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #48 January 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteDid you attend a public school or college? Yes. OK, so you have benefitted from taxpayer supported services. Quote QuoteDo you drive on public roads? Yes. OK, so you have benefitted from taxpayer supported services. Quote Now, answer my question. Should everyone be given a house, car, gun, etc... because we have public schools, public roads, etc...? I do not believe I have ever suggested such a thing. YOU brought up the topic of houses, cars and guns, not me, nor piper. But since you ask, I think health care and housing at some level should be provided for those who are UNABLE to provide it for themselves. Our society (including you) is not served well by having uneducated, homeless or sick people lying around the public streets. Typical right wing greed syndrome - take what you can in the way of public education, but begrudge every penny spent on someone else.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #49 January 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteOur public schools are failing our children, our roads are in constant need of repair, and ATC is on the verge of charging user fees. I would be all for universal health care if the government could run anything without making a mess of it, but such is not the case. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll retain control of my own health care. The only systemic failures are those engineered by right wing politicians unwilling to get the electorate to pay for what they want. Honestly, Professor, I don't think you actually believe every systematic failure was caused by right wing politicians. The left has their fair share as well as moderates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #50 January 23, 2008 QuoteTypical right wing greed syndrome Blah, blah, blah ... Quotetake what you can in the way of public education, but begrudge every penny spent on someone else. Could it be that people don't begrudge every penny spent on someone else but begrudge spending every penny on someone else ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
