More Church vs State

[Lindsey 0]

...alcohol in the grocery store presents an unnecessary problem for those who are trying to give it up. ...

And how do you feel about cocaine sold on street corners?

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Once again, in Kansas, not long ago we had war on capital hill when people wanted to start selling booze on Sunday.

I find that pretty hard to believe; there are no hills in Kansas.

[Unstable 9]

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I find that pretty hard to believe; there are no hills in Kansas.

Good one. Ya got me.

=========Shaun ==========

[Shotgun 1]

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And how do you feel about cocaine sold on street corners?

That's a bit of a different subject, since the cocaine dealer is probably looking at a prison sentence for selling his/her drug. (And I don't exactly agree with the law on that.) But it's similar to alcohol being restricted to liquor stores, since you at least have to go out of your way to purchase it, rather than just throwing it into your basket at the grocery store (a place that is pretty much necessary for most people to go to).

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I'd really like to see alcohol go the way of tobacco - not made illegal, but reduced in visibility, availability, and social perception. Removing it from grocery stores would be one small step in that direction.

Anyhow, my main point for posting my opinion in this thread was to show that it's not just people from the church that have this opinion. I am an atheist (and a drinker), and while I believe that alcoholic beverages and other drugs should be legal, I think that they should be sold at a designated place and not at grocery stores.

Having been around alcoholism all of my life, and having studied it extensively, I do believe that this is one of the things that could make a tiny dent in the problem. And it's a problem that is not restricted to the "weak-minded" person who gives in to his/her temptations; this "weak-minded" person will be out on the streets driving drunk or at home affecting other people, etc., etc.

[DSE 5]

Keely, I really do see your point (BTW, one of the few non-alcoholics in my family, I have two immediate relatives incarcerated for alcohol-related crimes), but also don't agree that it's for society to treat adults as though they're two year olds that require safety latches on every cupboard door, plug covers on every outlet, radio monitors when Mommy (or more likely Big Brother) isn't there. In the social sense, society provides those very things for adults that can't behave like adults. Alcoholism is an illness no different than any other addiction, sure. It's also the most easily treated addiction of them all, IMO (says the guy whose significant other has been an MSW for 20 years). We pay for the cost of the treatment in our taxes, through our churches, through liquor taxes, through corporate donations. Rehab is ridiculously easy.
In other words, we're already footing the bill for a huge percentage of the cost of rehab/treatment/prevention/maintenance. Why do we further need to foot the bill by paying higher prices so that it might be "prescriptionized" and kept locked away, hidden from temptation, or controlled via *more* government intervention?
Having a cocktail before dinner, or a glass of wine with a meal is exceptionally commonplace throughout the world. Having a cold one with your friends on the weekend is as American as applie pie and good ole' mom.
I only socially drink, and that's rare enough. I don't drink beer nor the 3.2 alcohol found in the stores and at the end of the day, this legislation has a total impact of zero on my life (It's already hard enough getting Utah liquor stores to carry Oban 50 year; Why do you think I keep going back to Eloy?).
But I believe in protecting your rights with the perhaps misguided hope that you'll be there to help protect mine.
Obesity, perversion, prescription/non-prescription drug abuse, alcoholism, sex crimes against children, etc are all social pox, but the tools with which these sicknesses are fed are freely accessible because those same tools are part of daily life. When we remove individual choices from society....well...look how that sort of society hasn't propered and grown throughout the eons of time.
Everyone on this forum is related to a dysfunctional human being (or is one). Rather than casting aside our rights because of their weakness, aren't we better off experiencing our rights/choices while attempting to elevate them to the freedoms we enjoy?

[Shotgun 1]

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. . . don't agree that it's for society to treat adults as though they're two year olds that require safety latches on every cupboard door, plug covers on every outlet, radio monitors when Mommy (or more likely Big Brother) isn't there.

I don't think that having restrictions on alcohol is treating adults like children. It would still be pretty easily available even if it wasn't in grocery stores.

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Alcoholism is an illness no different than any other addiction, sure. It's also the most easily treated addiction of them all, IMO . . . Rehab is ridiculously easy.

Wow, I have to disagree 100% with you there. I think that alcohol is one of the hardest addictions to treat, partially because of the availability and social acceptance of it. I doubt you'll find many alcoholics who will say that their recovery was easy.

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Rather than casting aside our rights because of their weakness, aren't we better off experiencing our rights/choices while attempting to elevate them to the freedoms we enjoy?

I don't see how not selling alcohol in grocery stores is "casting aside our rights." It would still be available elsewhere.

Anyhow, I know we disagree, so I'll leave it at that. I've said everything I want to say on this subject, and it's a little too personal for me, so I really shouldn't be discussing it on here. So I think I will bow out of this thread now.

[Lindsey 0]

I do get where you're coming from, and I'm not sure that I disagree with you...though this is one of those things I've really not thought much about. Alcohol is treated as very innocuous, when in reality it's an especially harmful substance for a lot of people, and probably for our society in general.

I'm not sure that where it's sold is all that important in terms of the treatment of alcohol...but maybe it is.

linz

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[dannydan 5]

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At least the church is basing their argument in positive statistics. When we hear "God doesn't want us to drink" as an argument to change law, a big red flag goes up.

If I remember right the parable says to"not become a drunkard".... They drank wine all the time next to water... It was a probably in Gods eyes if WE abuse it and allowed ourselves into a stupor... My quote is not verbatam, perhaps I should remove the marks...