PLFXpert 0 #76 January 17, 2008 I like you. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #77 January 17, 2008 "And for calling me a paranoid conspiracy nut, I highly recommend that you eat cloned meat once it hits the market. " Well how is your argument that the FDa is not to be trusted any different to those that say we cant trust NASA when they sadi we went to moon? A genuine criticism would have been to address the methodology of the study, that you did not do. By the way the FDa isnt the only organisation to conclude that cloned food is safe. The Federation of Animal Science Socities supported the FDa's conclusion read more here: http://www.fass.org/page.asp?pageID=191 Are they in on the conspiracy to hide the truth as well? As fas as eating cloned meat goes, as a veggie, not gonna happen unless this proves succesful: in vitro meat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat If we all went veggie we might cut carbon emissions by a staggering 21% evidence for that here: http://www.physorg.com/news4998.html I find it amusing that people that seem so concerned about their enivorment are rarely keen on even making this move, something that will involve little cost but could have huge impacts. Another thing I find amusing is that people are so keen on fear of future food technologies, but dont seem to care about the real threat to food supply which is over fishing. Many sciensits believe fish could be extinct for human consumption in a few decades, read more here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10433-no-more-seafood-by-2050.html You see far more people scare mongering new food technologies such as Gm or cloning than you see people worrying about fish stocks. Seems to me then that such fears are driven by anti technology or anti capitlaist agendas and have nothing to do with genuine scientific concerns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #78 January 17, 2008 Quote Are they in on the conspiracy to hide the truth as well? I don't think anyone is in a conspiracy to "hide the truth." However, I don't trust the government -- especially the FDA -- to do its due diligence when it comes to ensuring things are safe for the population, especially when there is heaps of money to be made on the technologies they test. To me, due diligence = long-term testing. 14 weeks, to me, does not qualify as long-term. 14 years seems more like long-term testing to me. As far as the FDA not representing our interests -- look how many drugs have been recalled because they found out *later* that they were harmful. For such occurrences, I blame both the big pharm companies and the FDA for not doing its due diligence. For that reason among others, I don't trust what the FDA says. Quote You see far more people scare mongering new food technologies such as Gm or cloning than you see people worrying about fish stocks. Seems to me then that such fears are driven by anti technology or anti capitlaist agendas and have nothing to do with genuine scientific concerns. Again, I'll be comfortable with new food technologies after some long-term testing on products. You can call me a paranoid communist nut if you like. It won't change my opinion that the FDA's word cannot be taken at face value. And thanks for the links, will check them out later. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #79 January 17, 2008 QuoteCorporations can make production of my televisions, computers, etc as efficient as they like. When they're fucking with my food, that's where they cross the line in my book.Unless you grow all of your own vegetables,grains and meat, your food has been fucked with. Pick up any package and read the ingredients. If you can't pronounce it, you probably shouldn't be putting it in your body, which partially explains all of the lard asses lumbering around these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #80 January 17, 2008 QuoteDo you believe it would be hypocritical to oppose cloned meat, but support stem cell research? Why? If someone gets uptight about putting cloned meat into their mouths just because it's not natural, and it might kill them, but wouldn't have a problem recieving a lab manufactured liver or heart created by stem cells, needs to look at their whole thinking process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #81 January 17, 2008 What I meant was: Are there any possible instances you see where such a position (oppose cloned meat, support stem cell research) might not be hypocritical? At this point, my question is rhetorical. I'm SWAMPED and unfortunately do not have the time I did yesterday for picking brains. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #82 January 17, 2008 QuoteWhat I meant was: Are there any possible instances you see where such a position (oppose cloned meat, support stem cell research) might not be hypocritical? Not if you are truly into the 'All things natural' mindset. Of course, you'd probably never leave a 5 mile radius of your home, if it were an honest conviction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #83 January 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteDo you believe it would be hypocritical to oppose cloned meat, but support stem cell research? Why? If someone gets uptight about putting cloned meat into their mouths just because it's not natural, and it might kill them, but wouldn't have a problem recieving a lab manufactured liver or heart created by stem cells, needs to look at their whole thinking process. There could be a necessity for a cloned organ -- someone's life could depend on it. On the other hand, I see absolutely no need for cloned meat for consumption. I see no hypocrisy in those viewpoints. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #84 January 18, 2008 "As far as the FDA not representing our interests -- look how many drugs have been recalled because they found out *later* that they were harmful. For such occurrences, I blame both the big pharm companies and the FDA for not doing its due diligence. For that reason among others, I don't trust what the FDA says. " I can only think of only a handful of drugs which have been pulled post release. Comapre this with the thousands of drugs that have been approved. Id be suprised if you could show me that the failure rate of the FDA was much higher than in any other industries. Every industry is subject to failure, planes crash , parachutes fail, cars break down. I doubt theres an industry on Earth that dooesnt occasionally make mistakes. The FDa includes a post release follow up in its testing and yes that occasionally finds a drug that is more dangerous than was revealed in tests. The fact that these drugs are then withdrawn from the market shows the system is generally working. In the case of the safety of cloned meat , this isnt just one study , Ill paste the quote from the link I gave above in case you didnt read it: "FDA has reviewed over 400 studies that have evaluated the safety of food from cloned animals and has concluded that the food from these animals is no different from normal animal food products. These studies have encompassed detailed comparative analysis for known nutrients and potential toxins, feeding trials utilizing several different animals, taste comparisons and visual evaluations by many independent laboratories. All have concluded that there is no difference in the relative nutrient content or safety between foods from cloned animals and foods from conventionally produced animals. For the above reasons, this committee is completely supportive of the FDA risk assessment statement. Federation of Animal Science Societies Scientific Advisory Committee on Food Safety, Animal Health, and Animal Drugs Members: Dr. Gary L. Cromwell, Chair Professor University of Kentucky Dept of Animal/Food Sciences 609 WP Garrigus Bldg Lexington, KY 40546 Email: gcromwel@uky.edu Dr. Andrew L. Skidmore Livestock Technical Service Manager Schering-Plough Animal Health 9379 Alexander Road Alexander, NY 14005 Email: andrew.skidmore@spcorp.com Dr. Kathryn J. Boor Professor Cornell University Food Science Dept 413 Stocking Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Email: kjb4@cornell.edu Dr. Robert A. Norton, Jr. Auburn University 231 Ann Upchurch Hall Auburn University, AL 36849-5416 Email: rnorton@acesag.auburn.edu Dr. William A. Olson Consultant/Owner Center for Regulatory Services, Inc. 5200 Wolf Run Shoals Road Woodbridge, VA 22192 Email: cfrsrv@aol.com Dr. Michael Allen Payne Program Director WIFSS University of California-Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 Email: mpayne@ucdavis.edu Dr. Rodney (Rod) L. Preston Professor Emeritus 191 Columbia Court Pagosa Springs, CO 81147-7650 Email: RLPreston@centurytel.net Brian W. Sheldon Professor and Dept Extension Leader North Carolina State University Dept of Poultry Science Box 7608 Raleigh, NC 27695-7608 Email: brian_sheldon@ncsu.edu Dr. Gary C. Smith Colorado State University Dept of Animal Sciences Center for Red Meat Safety Fort Collins, CO 80523 Email: gary.smith@colostate.edu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #85 January 18, 2008 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you believe it would be hypocritical to oppose cloned meat, but support stem cell research? Why? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If someone gets uptight about putting cloned meat into their mouths just because it's not natural, and it might kill them, but wouldn't have a problem recieving a lab manufactured liver or heart created by stem cells, needs to look at their whole thinking process. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote There could be a necessity for a cloned organ -- someone's life could depend on it. On the other hand, I see absolutely no need for cloned meat for consumption. I see no hypocrisy in those viewpoints. But, it's all about a better world through science. Embrace it. You don't get to pick and choose. Science Rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
