FDA Approves Cloned Meat

[PLFXpert 0]

That wasn't my statement you replied to.

But in regard to your response: What are you thoughts on the conclusions you quoted?

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[BIGUN 1,488]

The areas that I bolded and italicized.

_A_ 14 week study on rats? IMO - not long or in-depth enough. Wasn't it the FDA who yanked PPA off the shelves post-testing?

The _Uncertainties_ make me uncertain...

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For example, the degree of confidence that can be placed in judgments arising from a well-conducted, consistent, and extensive dataset is much higher than from a small, poorly designed, and highly variable datasets. Further, because datasets tend to arise from an individual laboratory or producer, the uncertainties associated with that producer and method are lower than for other laboratories or producers for which less information is available.

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indicating that either the animal has minimal epigenetic dysregulation, or that any initial epigenetic dysregulation has been resolved.

And the whole third one.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,488]

I am unreceptive because - living here in cattle/beef country, there are improprieties... Ranchers dumping hormones into the feed without measurement, they administer their own antibiotics, rather than calling a vet... Chickens have abnormal amounts of hormones, antibiotics in them, etc.

In addition, I did ask one DVM [who just so happened to have worked for the department years ago that conducted this study] and before I had even finished my discussion, she said, "Not a good idea." Which I'll probe for more information later. She was busy.

So, my initial remark is no thanks, but I am receptive to additional independent and long-term testing. I remain receptive because on a bigger scale; greater supply reduces prices and on a bigger picture, couldn't this be the beginning of solving a lot of the world's hunger problems?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[PLFXpert 0]

I didn't want to assume and appreciate the clarification.
I agree generally long-term testing is key.

It sounds like it will be some time before we see cloned meat & milk on shelves, though.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[shropshire 0]

Perhaps, what we should do is lock these FDA/EU plonkers in a room and feed them all of the shite (and nothing else) that they say is cool for us to feed to our kids. This would be a propper long term test.... If they walk out alive, not dribbeling and with the same number of limbs (no more/no less) that they went in with... Then and only then would I even think about feeding it to my dogs.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[masterblaster72 0]

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Perhaps, what we should do is lock these FDA/EU plonkers in a room and feed them all of the shite (and nothing else) that they say is cool for us to feed to our kids. This would be a propper long term test.... If they walk out alive, not dribbeling and with the same number of limbs (no more/no less) that they went in with... Then and only then would I even think about feeding it to my dogs.

Well said, sir.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Royd 0]

I find a bit of irony that many people who are opposed to the cloning of agricultual products for human consumtion complain about those who oppose stem cell research. A heart or liver created by stemcells is nothing more than a cloned part.

[philh 0]

"The FDA is a tool for the big food and pharm companies, so what would anyone expect? The FDA's word cannot be trusted, so I don't care how long their report is (even the most educated of consumers would probably not read through it anyhow). "

Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that FDA faked the evidence on th safety of this food? Whenever scientific studies are presented, paranoid conspiracy nuts usually go on about how the evdience against them was faked, its reminds me of a self reinforcing delusion.

"Cloned meat and genetically modified foods serve a single purpose: to maximize corporate profits"

Thats true, but its also true for tv's, parachutes, cars, clothes and most other things we produce ; its called capitalism. Capitalism is the worst economic system we've ever thought of, excpet for all the other ones. if you have a good alternative to capitalism , Im sure economists would love to hear it , but so far no ones comes up with anything good. I await your suggestions, until then stop bitching about the profit motive, its how things get produced and produced effeciently.
Having said that i agre with Bilvon that we need to be concerned about mainting gentic diveristy. But threats to gentic diversty are not just specific to new food technologies, witness the potatoe famine . Concerns may be justified but paranoin delusion about giant conspiracies are not.

[masterblaster72 0]

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"The FDA is a tool for the big food and pharm companies, so what would anyone expect? The FDA's word cannot be trusted, so I don't care how long their report is (even the most educated of consumers would probably not read through it anyhow). "

Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that FDA faked the evidence on th safety of this food? Whenever scientific studies are presented, paranoid conspiracy nuts usually go on about how the evdience against them was faked, its reminds me of a self reinforcing delusion.

"Cloned meat and genetically modified foods serve a single purpose: to maximize corporate profits"

Thats true, but its also true for tv's, parachutes, cars, clothes and most other things we produce ; its called capitalism. Capitalism is the worst economic system we've ever thought of, excpet for all the other ones. if you have a good alternative to capitalism , Im sure economists would love to hear it , but so far no ones comes up with anything good. I await your suggestions, until then stop bitching about the profit motive, its how things get produced and produced effeciently.
Having said that i agre with Bilvon that we need to be concerned about mainting gentic diveristy. But threats to gentic diversty are not just specific to new food technologies, witness the potatoe famine . Concerns may be justified but paranoin delusion about giant conspiracies are not.

Whatever you say dude. I'll just be sure not to eat cloned meat -- food is something that I take very seriously. Whether you choose to eat cloned meat or not isn't my concern.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 3,120]

>Buying cheaper food that is of the same price and same quality, to me,
>is capitalism.

>Buying cheaper food that is of potentially questionable, potentially
>pathological quality for the same price: I call that
>stupidity...gullibility...malleability on the part of the consumer.

Stupidity, gullibility, malleability etc on the part of the consumer IS capitalism. (Of course, what you consider stupidity, others will consider good ol' common sense.) In capitalism, the consumer is always right - even if he spends all his money buying cigarettes and cheap booze. And even if those things make him sick or kill him.

>As far as trusting private corporations to take on the task of ensuring
>genetic diversity -- a task that has been under the control of nature for
>millions of years -- no thank you. I'd rather nature continue to take care
>of that part for me. I don't have such trust in private industry.

I agree, and would add that I support efforts to archive those more-natural strains in seed/gene banks so we have a 'record' of them if we ever need them.

[billvon 3,120]

>I'll just be sure not to eat cloned meat . . .

How will you know?

[masterblaster72 0]

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>I'll just be sure not to eat cloned meat . . .

How will you know?

I'll likely become a vegetarian once cloned meat hits the markets -- that's how I'll know. Been a vegetarian before, so it wouldn't be a difficult thing for me.

As far as your 'gene banks' go, I see potential for a complete fiasco. I don't see recreating diversity from 'gene banks' as the solution for recreating the diversity that millions of years of evolution brought about.

Corporations can make production of my televisions, computers, etc as efficient as they like. When they're fucking with my food, that's where they cross the line in my book.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Shotgun 1]

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I'll likely become a vegetarian once cloned meat hits the markets . . .

How will you know if you're eating GM/cloned produce?

[Shotgun 1]

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In capitalism, the consumer is always right - even if he spends all his money buying cigarettes and cheap booze. And even if those things make him sick or kill him.

Yep, as long as your name isn't Jack Kevorkian, you can legally assist people with suicide... and even make a profit from it. Now if these companies would just come up with a quicker method... Oh wait, that would mean less profit for them, so of course they wouldn't want to do that.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How will you know if you're eating GM/cloned produce?

That was my question too.

We have been consuming chemically and genetically manipulated products for years. I really don't see cloned meat as much different.

(I do see an opportunity for a certification process for organically grown and raised products)

[PLFXpert 0]

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I find a bit of irony that many people who are opposed to the cloning of agricultual products for human consumtion complain about those who oppose stem cell research. A heart or liver created by stemcells is nothing more than a cloned part.

Do you believe it would be hypocritical to oppose cloned meat, but support stem cell research? Why?



I'm not for or against cloned meat as of yet. My main concerns with the meat industry have little to do with whether the cow is a clone. We've been "fucking with our food" long before we started cloning it.

If the status quo (diet, environment, treatment, use of antibiotics, etc.) were greatly improved upon, I'm not sure I'd have a problem eating meat--cloned or not.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Shotgun 1]

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I'm not for or against cloned meat as of yet. My main concerns with the meat industry have little to do with whether the cow is a clone. We've been "fucking with our food" long before we started cloning it.

If the status quo (diet, environment, treatment, use of antibiotics, etc.) were greatly improved upon, I'm not sure I'd have a problem eating meat--cloned or not.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. There are already a lot of things to be concerned about in the meat/dairy industry besides cloning.

I do eat meat and dairy though, and I'll admit I haven't made much effort to check it's source, but it's something that's been nagging at me for a while now.

[masterblaster72 0]

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I'll likely become a vegetarian once cloned meat hits the markets . . .

How will you know if you're eating GM/cloned produce?

I'll avoid supermarkets and buy from small stores where produce is certified organic, as I already do now. I pay more for it, and it's a matter of trust, I know, but I don't mind. It gives me peace of mind.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[BIGUN 1,488]

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If the status quo (diet, environment, treatment, use of antibiotics, etc.) were greatly improved upon, I'm not sure I'd have a problem eating meat--cloned or not.

Thanks for clarifying my point. It's the whole chain from cradle to grave (no pun intended, but its out there).

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[PLFXpert 0]

If we can agree whether or not cloned meat is "OK to eat" has less to do with genes and more to do with diet, environment, treatment, use of antibiotics, etc., then it would seem the FDA approving it for consumption is merely the catalyst for the "real issue".

The real potential issue--as it seems to me--is the diversity concern. I wonder what the industries' plans are in that regard?

It is (mostly) for the latter reason I am not without concerns of the ramifications of cloned meat.



Either way, I won't be eating much meat or dairy--cloned or not--until my fore-mentioned issues are addressed & refined.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[billvon 3,120]

>As far as your 'gene banks' go, I see potential for a complete fiasco. I
>don't see recreating diversity from 'gene banks' as the solution for
>recreating the diversity that millions of years of evolution brought about.

I agree. However, having a limited supply of seed with which to restart a certain strain of crop is better than having no seed with which to start with. For more details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault

Keep in mind that we have been bucking evolution in our crops for about 6000 years now. We would consider most "natural" crops inedible, and they would not feed many people even if we were to eat them.

>I'll likely become a vegetarian once cloned meat hits the markets -- that's
>how I'll know.

That will definitely work!

>Corporations can make production of my televisions, computers, etc as
>efficient as they like. When they're fucking with my food, that's where they
>cross the line in my book.

I think they have been doing that for millenia.

[councilman24 37]

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You can mass produce meat now, rather than having to wait for it to gestate naturally and grow. The only people this would benefit are those at the top of the big food corporations (and perhaps their stockholders).

What about cloning do you think bypasses gestation and growth? This is NOT brave new world with baby anything in a flask. A cloned animal simply means that instead of genes from two parents the offspring has the genes of one parent. It takes some physical manipulation. Female cows still get pregnant, give birth to babies that have to grow up. Any indentical twins, whether mice, cows or people are clones of each other in that they have identical genetic material.

Right now cloning is NOT cheaper, and is only cost effective for reproducing the best breeding stock. You aren't going to be eating cloned meat for a long time. But these animals CAN enter the food chain when they get old and tough.

Cloned animals is different from GMO's. GMO's have been manipulated to add a gene not native to the species. But a clone is identical to the donor parant. If you would eat the parent, why not eat the twin?

None of the above discussion relates to antibiotic use, genetic diversity in species, etc.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[philh 0]

I am a veggie and can highly reccomend it, no need to wait for cloned meat.

[masterblaster72 0]

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I am a veggie and can highly reccomend it, no need to wait for cloned meat.

And for calling me a paranoid conspiracy nut, I highly recommend that you eat cloned meat once it hits the market.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[nerdgirl 0]

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I find a bit of irony that many people who are opposed to the cloning of agricultual products for human consumtion complain about those who oppose stem cell research. A heart or liver created by stemcells is nothing more than a cloned part.

I hear a large number of people *supporting research* on stem cell therapy for potential life-saving therapeutic uses, with the implicit requirement for FDA approval for safety & effectiveness, e.g.:

2:1 support for stem cell research, per 2007 Virginia Commonwealth University survey, which is commensurate w/surveys from 2001

curiously (to me at least here’s the results of a very recent survey of New Hampshire primary voters found that among likely Republican primary voters 62% support/28% oppose stem cell research, among likely Democratic primary voters 89% support/5% oppose).

Therapeutics have significantly more stringent regulatory requirements than food (& nutritional supplements).

Most of what I’ve read (here & previously) is a concern for ensuring that before a new biotechnologically-enabled food product is introduced into the consumer market-place that substantive research showing it to be safe for long-term human consumption is conducted and *supporting research* to demonstrate its safety.

If I read correctly, a number of posters seem to be espousing some form of the precautionary principle … which has substantial economic and regulatory ramifications.


~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~

Among the many things I miss about living in the San Francisco Bay area are the fantastic Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) opportunities. My roommate (had to have a roommate living in Palo Alto on a fellows salary) and I split a share from Live Earth Farm in Watsonville (

While there’s an initial large payment (for the farmer at the start of the year), it came out to $35 per week. Probably more expensive than a cheap grocery store but A LOT less than “Whole Paycheck.”

VR/Marg … vegetarian since 1986 ... altho’ consuming BGH-containing yoghurt since 1994

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying