diablopilot 2 #1 January 12, 2008 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080112/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/secure_driver_s_licenses QuoteThe last thing I want to do is punish citizens of a state who would love to have a REAL ID license but can't get one," Chertoff said. Does this guy really believe the shit that he's spewing? What a cunt. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2 January 12, 2008 I have not looked into much of the detail about this but, I have a couple of questions and I am looking for some opinions. 1) Do you think the US should have ANY kind of ID that proves you are a citizen? and 2) If you think and ID of some kind is OK what would be the limits? I ask this because I hear of the resistance to voter ID's and all the other stuff. What, to you or anybody else, is the issues involved? I did not read the link so that is not what I am asking about."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 January 12, 2008 1) No. 2) No. You should have to prove your identity for some things, but I am 100% against any form of mandated National ID.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 January 12, 2008 Doesn't matter if they're 'red' or 'blue'...they're ALL collectivists. The sooner they turn us all into mindless drones producing for the good of nannystate.gov, the better they'll like it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #5 January 12, 2008 Quote1) No. 2) No. You should have to prove your identity for some things, but I am 100% against any form of mandated National ID. OK, why? When do you see the need and, when do you think the "need" is going too far? Look, I tend to agree with you but I am not sure WHY I agree with you. I am strugling with this myself so I am looking for input and issues."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #6 January 12, 2008 I love it!!! "...as passed by congress" roflmMuthaFukinAo...... "c'mere lil sheeple, we'll protect yazz".... For it is written!!! I will say it again,... the worm is a turing,.... HAS turned!... Get your houses in order peeps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #7 January 12, 2008 Quote I love it!!! "...as passed by congress" roflmMuthaFukinAo...... "c'mere lil sheeple, we'll protect yazz".... For it is written!!! I will say it again,... the worm is a turing,.... HAS turned!... Get your houses in order peeps I have no fucking clue what you are trying to say here when looked at in the context of my post"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #8 January 12, 2008 wasnt a REPLY to what you said.... I had to click the REPLY button from somewhere!! I am just passing on my opinions and.... well... fact as I believe them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #9 January 12, 2008 Some might describe that as irony. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #10 January 12, 2008 Quote Doesn't matter if they're 'red' or 'blue'...they're ALL collectivists. The sooner they turn us all into mindless drones producing for the good of nannystate.gov, the better they'll like it. ...in other words, a nicer way of saying "The dumbing down of American peeps"... Its been going on for a long long time, and NOW it is starting to come to light! It just amazes ME how "clueless the average AMERICAN (3rd 4th 5th etc Generation) people are!! I think it was Ben Franklin whom said it best about this; (not verbatim but) " those willing to give up freedoms and liberties for security, deserve neither freedom or liberty.".... History buffs, how close am I to the actual quote? edit; fixed some speeeeling errors Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #11 January 12, 2008 Quote wasnt a REPLY to what you said.... I had to click the REPLY button from somewhere!! I am just passing on my opinions and.... well... fact as I believe them... Ok, I think I get your point but, I still have not gotten a reply to my questions"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #12 January 12, 2008 Quote Some might describe that as irony. .jim I am sorry of I am being dense tonight but ..... huh?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #13 January 12, 2008 I wonder how long it will take to get a coherent answer here..... (not aimed at you) "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #14 January 12, 2008 QuoteI have not looked into much of the detail about this but, I have a couple of questions and I am looking for some opinions. 1) Do you think the US should have ANY kind of ID that proves you are a citizen? and 2) If you think and ID of some kind is OK what would be the limits? I ask this because I hear of the resistance to voter ID's and all the other stuff. What, to you or anybody else, is the issues involved? I did not read the link so that is not what I am asking about. QuoteQuote1) No. 2) No. You should have to prove your identity for some things, but I am 100% against any form of mandated National ID. OK, why? When do you see the need and, when do you think the "need" is going too far? Look, I tend to agree with you but I am not sure WHY I agree with you. I am strugling with this myself so I am looking for input and issues. ------------------------------------------------------------ That was you and them DIABLO... Here is my take as I understand things from the Founding FatherS points of veiwS.... 1-NO 2-NO This is a country of SUPPOSEDLY "free movement" according to these documents; Bill of Rights, United States Constitution, and in someparts the Declaration of Independence.... When WE the People ALLOW our ELECTED (HIRED) officials that HELP run our nation, to implemeant laws and rules and regulations that OPPOSE those individual rights granted to us in those documents by God through our FFs, then we as a nation of CITIZENS may as well walk into any prison or jail or concentration camp etc etc and pull the door shut behind us and give the key to unlock it, to BIG BROTHER (the gvt, OUR elected represenitives)!!! We as 3rd generation and older American citizens have already allowed our country to become a third world nation right before our very own eyes by NOT standing firm in what we know is right and wrong! We were told (ordered) by the FFs that if ANY of the three branches of gvt overstep the limits set forth in those three documents (above) then it is We the People that are responsible for setting it back right... If we do not take action against the gvt for screwing around with the rights of the FRE people and the duties of the gvt, then we will pay for it in the end... Dudes, I don't need to say to you all that your RIGHTS are and have been frickin INFRINGEDupon over time! The problem, is that most average citizens cant see past the "smoke and mirrors" that OUR "hired officials USE to put us back into a slavery type of society... QuoteI did not read the link so that is not what I am asking about. Brother rushmc... dont read the link! READ our/YOUR nations documents! They TEACH us how to run this nation, somewhat like the bible teachs us how to live.... There is more.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #15 January 12, 2008 Dude, I have taken time to go through the Federalist Papers so, I ask you again (and I am not being an ass cause I really want to know why you think this) where in the Constitution do you see that it is wrong to have some kind of ID card? I understand the fears and I hear the retoric but, today, when it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? Our drivers licenses already show our addresses and all that so, if there was a permant passport type card we need for airports and employment, what, past what we already provide for a DL, would we be risking? I am playing devils advocate here. I, we (you and I ) really think a national ID card is a bad idea, we need to be able to VERY SPECIFICALLY tell people why. That is what I am after"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #16 January 12, 2008 Quotewhen it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? How many times in the LAST ten years have they change the PAPER for our money system to TWART counterfeiting??? My state has changed our DLs like three times in the last ten years to TRY and stop kids from buying BEER! All to NO avail!!! The BAR CODE will be next!! "the MARK" You tell me bro, where does it stop? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #17 January 12, 2008 Quote Quotewhen it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? How many times in the LAST ten years have they change the PAPER for our money system to TWART counterfeiting??? My state has changed our DLs like three times in the last ten years to TRY and stop kids from buying BEER! All to NO avail!!! The BAR CODE will be next!! "the MARK" You tell me bro, where does it stop? Ok, what is your solution? Or at least, an attempt at some sort of solution?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 January 12, 2008 QuoteQuote Quotewhen it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? How many times in the LAST ten years have they change the PAPER for our money system to TWART counterfeiting??? My state has changed our DLs like three times in the last ten years to TRY and stop kids from buying BEER! All to NO avail!!! The BAR CODE will be next!! "the MARK" You tell me bro, where does it stop? Ok, what is your solution? Or at least, an attempt at some sort of solution? Why does there need to be one? Article IV of the Constitution: Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. With that, why do we NEED a *national* ID card?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #19 January 12, 2008 What I am about to say WILL NOT happen, so it is moot point! But to reverse what has been done to our country by its very own countrymen re; politicians and businessmen and some unknoing commoners, would be to REVOLT against the system and start over! Harder than first time? I think not. But it has to be done COLLECTIVELY by the PEOPLE and not individualisticly. YEP shit will hit the fan for a few years while WE are regrouping around the PRINCIPLES that made this countries ideals GREAT! I mean throw every one of those Senators, Congressmen, and representives OUT of office and I mean like yesterday! Put the Baker and the shop owner and the blacksmith etc back in! The outside world will shune us and this and that, but the better outcome for OUR nation is what counts.... RIGHT? But we would have to do it as WHOLE and not as individuals or else it won't work. It will be worse than what we have and are seeing now. Elections every 4, 6 years has not cut it for a very very long time. (one of the reasons for our demise) Politics has NO place in business and visa versa! We do not need a gvt that regulates EVERYfrickingTHING! The PEOPLE will buy and sell where WE feel the most comfortable. EXAMPLE, if ACME bed manf makes a shitty and UNSAFE bed to sleep in/on, then WE will watch them (ACME) go out of business or watch them make a better product!!! The executive, legislative and judicial branches of our gvt need not to bother themselves or their PURPOSEs with that stuff... Thats NOT their job! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #20 January 12, 2008 QuoteWhy does there need to be one? Article IV of the Constitution: Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. With that, why do we NEED a *national* ID card? pretty much like I said about our FFs already having it all (for the most part) together like what the bible is to life! Our founding fathers toiled over these documents alot longer than the 55days that it took the "clown congress in 2001-02 to ratify the stupid PaTrIoT act! geezz.... I still have a very hard time with that one! And WE the PEOPLE bought it hook line and SINKER! And that is EXACTLY what it is doing, it is SINKING us and fast.... hince this thread that were chatting about.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #21 January 12, 2008 I see another thread in this section that starts with "Pussifacation of this country..." I have not read any of that yet, but it sounds like something else NEGITIVE about the way the USA is BEING!!! i'll be back later....need to do some research... peace and God speed to you all! maybe I should print my manifesto I wrote some years back sometime in here.... Some of you young guns WILL freak! You'll think that I'm nuts and too old fashioned..... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #22 January 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote Quotewhen it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? How many times in the LAST ten years have they change the PAPER for our money system to TWART counterfeiting??? My state has changed our DLs like three times in the last ten years to TRY and stop kids from buying BEER! All to NO avail!!! The BAR CODE will be next!! "the MARK" You tell me bro, where does it stop? Ok, what is your solution? Or at least, an attempt at some sort of solution? Why does there need to be one? Article IV of the Constitution: Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. With that, why do we NEED a *national* ID card? It will be a state ID courtesy of "federal guidlines". The government already has collected information about most of us from military records, tax returns, social security, phone bills, and paychecks etc. Your car license tag says a lot of things about you accessible to most law enforcement agencies. It's about people who don't belong here; that's what they are looking for. What they will do with people who don't belong here, but are not terrorists, it's anybodys guess. Seems nobody in politics likes to use the "D" word: DEPORTATION. Stopping voter fraud is a bonus. We are a nation at war with terrorism.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 January 12, 2008 <> Where is all this terrorism,of which you speak? We, globaly have been sold a crock. What is the actual scale of it compared to all of the other problems that we are taxed to solve? How many people have been lost, to terrorist violent acts .vs. how many are killed (say) on our roads, through cancer, through drug use etc ....etc.... and then compare the amount of money spent by our governments (i.e by US!!) on each of these. Someone is making a shit load of money and it's not any of us!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #24 January 12, 2008 QuoteI understand the fears and I hear the retoric but, today, when it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? Our drivers licenses already show our addresses and all that so, if there was a permant passport type card we need for airports and employment, what, past what we already provide for a DL, would we be risking? Although I am sure you are aware of it, but not every one is: legal resident aliens do NOT get to vote. Therefore, what would a national ID state: that one is residing in the US legally (in which case it will do nothing against voter fraud)? Or would it state that one can vote (therefore doing nothing to tackle the illegal resident issue)? Just thoughts, not really any idea about a solution (I am opposed to having to carry a national ID at all times, although I've had a valid passport for the past 35 years...) "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #25 January 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote Quotewhen it comes to voting, voter fraud, illeagals in our country, (and I am not trying to support a national ID card) why would it be wrong to identify ourselves as leagal US citizens? How many times in the LAST ten years have they change the PAPER for our money system to TWART counterfeiting??? My state has changed our DLs like three times in the last ten years to TRY and stop kids from buying BEER! All to NO avail!!! The BAR CODE will be next!! "the MARK" You tell me bro, where does it stop? Ok, what is your solution? Or at least, an attempt at some sort of solution? Why does there need to be one? Article IV of the Constitution: Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. With that, why do we NEED a *national* ID card? That makes sense to me. Thanks. I am most definatly for states (not national) power"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
