kelpdiver 2 #76 January 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe financials are laying off 10s of thousands of employees. It's not that difficult. And Reagan fired all the ATCs. He did, but it was noteworthy due to the incredible rarity of the event. You won't see Bush firing all of his generals, or shutting down the Air Force. He can't even eliminate the EPA, much as he'd like to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #77 January 18, 2008 Stay tuned: The Bush will explain his economic stimulus package at 11:40 Eastern. Gotta love election years in the US, this is when the politicians scramble to gain voter confidence, it's why democracy works,-citizens can change the course of government by voting. lets keep it that way.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #78 January 18, 2008 in the face of a recession He used the opportunity to publicly put pressure on congress to extend his tax plan which was soon set to expire. Oddly the dow drops another 50 points after a 300 point drop yesterday- so much for confidence.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #79 January 18, 2008 Fuck it...I want my $800. I am going to buy another 52 in. TV! Yeee haw! Thanks Dubya, ya fucking moron! That makes a lot more sense than investing that money in an energy revolutuion that would creat jobs and solve the energy problems of the country.... you rock! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #80 January 18, 2008 the advantage of the rebate method is that it is a one time event. Lowering the bracket rates, otoh, lasts until changed again. And no one can bitch that this is a tax cut for the rich - if the thrown out numbers hold up, I won't be seeing that money, despite the rather hefty amount I paid in 2007. For those living by the paycheck, that $800 can make up for the spike in gas and food prices, or allow the start to a savings reserve. A lot of people do better with lump sums rather than saving $35 per paycheck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #81 January 18, 2008 Well, even though I am a Democrat- I have to admit you are talking to an investor- so I am looking for ways to improve my odds at making money in the stock market. We all gotta eat somehow. Anyway I was slightly encouraged by treasury secretary Paulsons explanation of the Bush plan but only slightly- as you can see the market yawned at this proposal. Most of it is fluff and talking points designed to give the impression that the Bush administration has everything under control. If you'll notice the secretary said that when congress sends over the bill he would "run like a bunny" to get that tax refund in our hands..... translation- were gonna give you some candy before the election. big fucking deal- again, the market yawned at the proposal.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #82 January 18, 2008 at this moment I don't think the market is receptive to any good news. There is so much negativity (and 10 billion dollar writeoffs) that the coming of Jesus wouldn't start a rally. And also, there's a big difference between Bush floating a proposal and the Democrat lead Congress enacting it as it stands. After having their ways thwarted last year by the veto, they are now the ones that can dictate the terms since the Republicans need this at least as much as the Democrats, and probably much more more. I think the market would like to see a more finalized result before they get too excited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #83 January 18, 2008 Quote For those living by the paycheck, that $800 can make up for the spike in gas and food prices, or allow the start to a savings reserve. A lot of people do better with lump sums rather than saving $35 per paycheck. Understood. But when I was young and dumb (and broke) I thought that the answer to my debt was to run up another credit card. I found out that eventually you have to pay the bill. As a nation we have quite a bill to pay already. I found out that things are much better when you tighten your belt a bit and pay down that orignial debt. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #84 January 18, 2008 >>I think the market would like to see a more finalized result before they get too excited. Oh, I totally agree but my point was about some of the details of the Bush proposals. I am not against getting some money into the hands of those that need it to stay afloat,and by this I mean families not banks and corporations, but for the president to state that the democratic controlled congress needs to get this tax rebate program extended to stimulate the economy is pure election year politics and will do nothing to help stem the tide of a recession. The stock market is swayed by many things, but it has a good nose for bullshit too, and it reacts more quickly than any other economic indicator.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #85 January 18, 2008 QuoteFuck it...I want my $800. I am going to buy another 52 in. TV! Yeee haw! Why not buy $800 in stock in an alternative energy company. That way, you can help create jobs and help solve the energy policy. Maybe you can even turn that money into MORE money instead of buying a new television. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #86 January 18, 2008 Quote I found out that things are much better when you tighten your belt a bit and pay down that orignial debt. sure, in the long run. But governments have long bumped spending/cut taxes during recessions. They're supposed to then raise taxes/cut spending during the booms, but that part tends to be missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #87 January 19, 2008 >>Why not buy $800 in stock in an alternative energy company. Yes here are some bargains...WFR, FSLR,VSE,SPWR but wait until the Fed makes a decisive move to cut rates and the mortgage insurance crisis has a clear resolution otherwise you'll get caught in a suckers rally like the one at the end of December.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #88 January 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe financials are laying off 10s of thousands of employees. It's not that difficult. And Reagan fired all the ATCs. If you really think it isn't hard to fire an underperforming unionized employee, then obviously you have never been in that situation. There was a distinct difference there. Government Unions are not allowed to strike. ATCs were no only endangering lives of US citizens, but those of countries around the world that would send flights to the US. Then-SecTrans Drew Lewis had trained replacements and military controllers were used as well. QuoteI know the positions aren't similar. I understand the semantics argument between controling and influencing. In the end, the President of the US does have a very significant influence over the US economy and with that the world economy to a lesser degree. We agree up to your last point. Whenever the US economy sneezes, the rest of the world markets over-react and catch a cold. Look at Japan's index performance since the new year as an example. QuoteAs a state, it would now appear that other countries and regions (EU) have done a much better job in recent years of managing their economies. The EU lives by the health of France and Germany. The UK is doing great outside of the EMU. Unemployment in France is 9%, Germany 10.6%, Italy 7%....with overall GDP growth of pretty much under 2%. France's tax burden is 50% of it's GDP. (!) Spain is doing well growth-wise, but unemployment is high, 8.1%. As I see it, the EU has succeeded at providing common currency, nothing more. Complex funding, debt management, and loss of sovereignty are issues I do not think have been truly faced.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #89 January 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteFuck it...I want my $800. I am going to buy another 52 in. TV! Yeee haw! Why not buy $800 in stock in an alternative energy company. That way, you can help create jobs and help solve the energy policy. Maybe you can even turn that money into MORE money instead of buying a new television. I already have stock in biofuels. On a serious note, the $800 will likely be foolishly squandered on heating my home. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #90 January 21, 2008 >For those living by the paycheck, that $800 can make up for the spike >in gas and food prices, or allow the start to a savings reserve. Well, you do realize that if many people put it in savings, then the plan fails, right? A much better plan (if economic stimulus is your goal) would be to buy everyone an american-made 36" digital ready color TV (or similar entertainment device.) It would be a huge boost to that sector of the economy and would avoid the heartbreak of millions of Americans losing their TV reception come Feb 2009. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #91 January 21, 2008 Quote>For those living by the paycheck, that $800 can make up for the spike >in gas and food prices, or allow the start to a savings reserve. Well, you do realize that if many people put it in savings, then the plan fails, right? There are still benefits to increasing the savings rate. It can't all be short term thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #92 January 21, 2008 >There are still benefits to increasing the savings rate. What economic benefits accrue from people increasing their savings (via a standard savings account) instead of spending the money in the market? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #93 January 22, 2008 Quote>There are still benefits to increasing the savings rate. What economic benefits accrue from people increasing their savings (via a standard savings account) instead of spending the money in the market? Is this a serious question? Think about how we got to this current situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #94 January 22, 2008 >> Why not buy $800 in stock Hold on to your butts people- the market opened down another 200 points...freefall- traders are blowing a head gasket on CNBC The experts are calling for a recovery in late third or fourth quarter. lots of people are loading up on cash in anticipation of a bottom, the favored sectors for this bottom feeding are techs, financial and retail which are getting hit the most. house of pain today.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #95 January 22, 2008 Quote A much better plan (if economic stimulus is your goal) would be to buy everyone an american-made 36" digital ready color TV (or similar entertainment device.) . Which brand would that be?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #96 January 22, 2008 QuoteQuote>There are still benefits to increasing the savings rate. What economic benefits accrue from people increasing their savings (via a standard savings account) instead of spending the money in the market? Is this a serious question? Think about how we got to this current situation. Borrow, and spend like a drunken sailor?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #97 January 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote>There are still benefits to increasing the savings rate. What economic benefits accrue from people increasing their savings (via a standard savings account) instead of spending the money in the market? Is this a serious question? Think about how we got to this current situation. Borrow, and spend like a drunken sailor? Congress' strong suit (regardless of composition)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #98 January 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote>There are still benefits to increasing the savings rate. What economic benefits accrue from people increasing their savings (via a standard savings account) instead of spending the money in the market? Is this a serious question? Think about how we got to this current situation. Borrow, and spend like a drunken sailor? As a sailor, I resent that statement. Yes, I was a drunken fool, but I remain tatoo free and while in the navy I SAVED money! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #99 January 22, 2008 QuoteQuote Think about how we got to this current situation. Borrow, and spend like a drunken sailor? Congress' strong suit (regardless of composition) I'm thinking more about companies and individuals, who quickly have to pay for such transgressions. (Congress/President can do it for decades) If you overextend yourself, it makes small problems into big ones. And when you have no safety net and are faced with an uncertain economy, you hold onto every dollar. If you had 2 or 3 months reserve, you could spend normally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #100 January 22, 2008 AgreedMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
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