Pussification of This Country -A Different View

[PLFXpert 0]

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So you might get away with that even if you're not really his wife, but there might be legal issues with it later on. I'm not sure how that stuff works.

Well it worked out well for Sandra Bullock so it MUST be OK. I think she even got a trip to Florence out of it.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Gene03 0]

Great post Jaye and a lot of interesting drifts.
The only thing I can add is what a friend of mine told me several years ago when I was ranting about something.

Does it affect you on a personal level? yes/no

Can you do anything about it? yes/no

Then why I you wasting your time and energy on it?

He said just cut the "extraneous bogus" out of your life and move on.

Or just take one of these and call me in the morning.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[Shotgun 1]

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So you might get away with that even if you're not really his wife, but there might be legal issues with it later on. I'm not sure how that stuff works.

Well it worked out well for Sandra Bullock so it MUST be OK. I think she even got a trip to Florence out of it.

Ok, now you've lost me.

[PLFXpert 0]

It was reference to a really cute movie that I cannot BELIEVE you haven't seen.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Shotgun 1]

That movie sounds familiar, but I guess I never saw it. I'll rent it if I'm ever in the mood for a chick flick.

Oh, and it's a plus that it has Peter Gallagher in it, who was in one of my favorite movies... The Idolmaker, which is definitely not a chick flick.

[PLFXpert 0]

It's been a Christmas-time staple in my family since it came out because my grandma can't tolerate anything but a feel-good, sugary-sweet movie. The bonus is, this one is well-performed, quirky, charming & funny.

I like a variety of movies, but I admit I'm a sucker for "French Kiss", "Cutting Edge", "Steel Magnolias" and more still!

I blame it on the pussification of this country!

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[nerdgirl 0]

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WHAT IN THE WORLD gave you the fucking idea that you are the only one that matters in a marriage? Maybe you should have realized that you are far too fucking selfish to ever commit to anything but yourself and NOT GOTTEN MARRIED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Would have been better than bogging those of us that take the commitment seriously down into your fucking 80% divorce rate statistics.

That figure struck me.

I was under the impression that ~50% of US marriages failed (which is less than good but still less bad than 80%). Inspired a lil’ data hunt.

From the CDC data:
Marriage rate: 7.5 per 1,000 total population
Divorce rate: 3.6 per 1,000 population (46 reporting States and D.C.)

= 48% divorce rate for overall US in 2006, which is the lowest rate since 1970.

Factors attributed include older first marriages and more cohabitation (w/out marriage).

By state, highest divorce rate (not real surprise):
Nevada (6.4/1000).
Followed by Arkansas (6.1),
Wyoming (5.2),
Idaho/West Virginia (5.0), &
Alabama/Kentucky/Oklahoma/Tennessee (4.9).

An interesting observation that suggests education may be a key factor to lowering divorce rates: “People who have completed college tend to have significantly higher marriage and lower divorce rates compared to those with less education. Among those married in the early 1990s, only 16.5 percent of college educated women were divorced within ten years, compared to 46 percent for high school dropouts. Indeed, most of the recent divorce rate decline has been among the college educated; for those with less than a high school education, the divorce rate actually has been rising.” {Quoted from Rutgers “State of our Unions Study, unsure whether it was peer-reviewed or not.
---- ---- ----

The 80% divorce rate seems to be attributed to parents of autistic children, although the validity of that figure is being questioned.

http://asa.confex.com/asa/2006/techprogram/S1940.HTM
“Although it has been reported that the divorce rate in families with an autistic child is in the 80% range, there does not appear to be much written about this phenomenon. Based on experience from a child psychiatric practice specializing in autism spectrum disorders, the author will discuss some of the aspects of the apparent causes of this extremely high divorce rate in hopes of finding ways to lessen the impact on both parents and children.”

http://www.autismvox.com/how-high-is-the-divorce-rate-among-autism-parents/
“Further, the National Autism Association (NAA) has launched what it refers to as the “first national program to combat divorce rates in autism community; it hopes to “confirm or update that percentage [of 80%] before referencing it in its program materials.” And, the “toll” that the “stress” of raising an autistic child can take on a marriage has more recently been in the news due to Jenny McCarthy who said during her Oprah appearance on September 18th:

”Soon after Evan’s diagnosis, Jenny says the stress of raising a child with autism began to take a toll on her marriage. An autism advocacy organization reports that the divorce rate within the autism community is staggering. According to its research, 80 percent of all marriages end.

“I believe it, because I lived it,” she says. “I felt very alone in my marriage.”

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[georgerussia 0]

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Well thank you, mister positive.

I'm mister Real Life.
If this is what happens in real life, the kids should know that.
They need to know that what they heard on TV (especially from politicans) may not be correct information.
They need to know that if someone is a priest, it does not mean he should be trusted, or even not a pedophile.
They need to know that if someone promises to love you forever, this is a groundless promise, which should not be taken seriously.
In other words, the adult world is full of lies, cheating, backstabbing, and not like Disney cartoons.

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I'm working towards a solution. I hope you are, too.

There is no solution. It is politics. Nowadays they're justified because they were grown up in a single-parent family. Several hundred years ago the same people would be justified because they were affected by an Evil Spirit. In Islamic countries a lot of things could be justified because you were not born in "right" religion (if you agree to convert to Islam). And so on.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Great post Jaye and a lot of interesting drifts.
The only thing I can add is what a friend of mine told me several years ago when I was ranting about something.

Does it affect you on a personal level? yes/no

Can you do anything about it? yes/no

Then why I you wasting your time and energy on it?

He said just cut the "extraneous bogus" out of your life and move on.

That's absolutely right. Your friend is wise. Worrying about things that we cannot control is fruitless and takes our time, focus, and energy from things that we can and should be concerned with.

I would say, however, that far too many of us think that we can't control anything beyond our front door. Though I don't think I'll single-handedly create a legitimate decrease in this country in divorce rate, I can make a difference one couple at a time -if I'm doing it for the right reasons.

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Or just take one of these and call me in the morning.

Hell yeah send me a bottle and I'll pay shipping.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Gene03 0]

Sorry.
Homey don't play that pharmaceutical game.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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That figure struck me.

I was under the impression that ~50% of US marriages failed (which is less than good but still less bad than 80%). Inspired a lil’ data hunt.

From the CDC data:
Marriage rate: 7.5 per 1,000 total population
Divorce rate: 3.6 per 1,000 population (46 reporting States and D.C.)

= 48% divorce rate for overall US in 2006, which is the lowest rate since 1970.

Factors attributed include older first marriages and more cohabitation (w/out marriage).

Actually those numbers are not accurate; check what they are reporting. All states report and contribute to the marriage numbers. ONLY 48 STATES contribute to and report divorce numbers. I'm not sure how they are ok with putting out that number without explaining the missing data.

-And did anyone get a tiny chuckle out of those numbers being reported by the CDC? If the Center for Disease Control has to report marriage and divorce stats...bwahahahahaaa...

Yes I'm aware that the 80% has been quoted but not verified by parents of Autistics. I am acutely aware of that. -However, the speaker who was talking from stage had said 'Close to 80%' = 76%, and he was not referring to special needs families. I really wish I knew which source he was citing; he mentioned it, I failed to write it down in my notes. I'm thinking maybe social security? I have to check...

The other thing is that many reporting agencies (that I checked) were reporting divorce rates per first marriage only. Not that it's better or worse, just that it's good to know exactly what info we're looking at.

Honestly if the divorce rate per ALL marriages in the entire US dropped below 50%, I'd say it's a great start! -Still, does your officiant during the wedding ceremony of your choice yell out, "Hey! Anybody got a coin? Let's see what their odds of being honest with each other at this moment are."

Marriage is work. It's 'the toughest job you'll ever love' to borrow a motto , but we just don't do a great job of teaching that, in my very outspoken opinion.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[nerdgirl 0]

Jaye - Help me understand better your analysis and how to better communicate the information.

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Actually those numbers are not accurate; check what they are reporting. All states report and contribute to the marriage numbers. ONLY 48 STATES contribute to and report divorce numbers. I'm not sure how they are ok with putting out that number without explaining the missing data.

On what basis are you challenging the “accuracy” of the CDC’s data? (It’s not a statistical analysis, it’s just raw data.) The website clearly discloses the States that have chosen not to submit and methods. Do you have a better source or even competing source? I’m always interested in a 2nd or 3rd, etc. data set to strengthen the analysis.

The explanation for the 4 States that don’t report on divorces is federalism. The US Dept of Health & Human Services (under which CDC falls) can *request* information from States, that does not mean the States have to send it. One possible policy response would be to federally mandate submission by all States. Would you recommend that? There are diseases, e.g., smallpox, plague, tularemia, measles, for which reporting to the CDC is a federal requirement. Personally, I’m inclined to not federally mandate reporting on divorces.

Is it really your assertion that including data from additional 4 States is going to skew the values from 48% to 80% … or to “76%”? Mathematically, what would the divorce rate have to be in those States for that to occur? Frankly, it would be a fascinating anomaly.

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-And did anyone get a tiny chuckle out of those numbers being reported by the CDC? If the Center for Disease Control has to report marriage and divorce stats...bwahahahahaaa...

No, I didn’t chuckle. I’m not being flip or facetious … seriously, what preferable source would you suggest?

Are you arguing to dismiss figures because you’re under the impression that vital statistics fall outside of the purview of the CenterS for Disease Control and Prevention? Do you have in mind some agenda or other reason why the CDC should not be a credible source? [I’m genuinely asking here.] If the data was coming from a hypothetical “Institute for a Higher Divorce Rate” or the “National Alliance Against Divorce” I could understand and support the skepticism. If the data & the hypothesis don’t agree, does one revise the hypothesis or the data?

Were you aware that two of the CDC’s Centers are the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) & National Center for Public Health Informatics (NCPHI)? (Also within the CDC is the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.)

Within NCHS, is the National Vital Statistics System:

“The National Vital Statistics System is the oldest and most successful example of inter-governmental data sharing in Public Health and the shared relationships, standards, and procedures form the mechanism by which NCHS collects and disseminates the Nation's official vital statistics. These data are provided through contracts between NCHS and vital registration systems operated in the various jurisdictions legally responsible for the registration of vital events--births, deaths [including suicides – nerdgirl], marriages, divorces, and fetal deaths. Vital Statistics data are also available on line. In the United States, legal authority for the registration of these events [i.e., why States aren’t required to report - nerdgirl] resides individually with the 50 States, 2 cities (Washington, DC, and New York City), and 5 territories (Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands). These jurisdictions are responsible for maintaining registries of vital events and for issuing copies of birth, marriage, divorce, and death certificates.”

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However, the speaker who was talking from stage had said 'Close to 80%' = 76%, and he was not referring to special needs families. I really wish I knew which source he was citing; he mentioned it, I failed to write it down in my notes. I'm thinking maybe social security? I have to check...

Help me understand why/how you view an unspecified, unattributable representative (perhaps) from the Social Security Administration as credible on statistics on divorce rates (perhaps among parents of special needs families) but not the publicly available data reported by the Department of Health and Human Services?

The Census Bureau (under DoCommerce) does collect survey-based (as opposed to State record-based) data on marriages and divorces too; they also direct to the CDC’s National Vital Statistics System for raw data.

I’m not trying to make you look bad or anything like that … [there’s one O-6 submariner left over from those hand-packed by Rickover to whom I rant about how the nuclear model does *not* apply to bio & nano who satisfies any very small quota in me for that ] but understand how to better convey information.

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Marriage is work. It's 'the toughest job you'll ever love' to borrow a motto, but we just don't do a great job of teaching that, in my very outspoken opinion.

Concur heartily!
My parents were married for almost 35 years, until my dad died in 2001. I saw how they put each other, their marriage, and their child in front of themselves.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Jaye - Help me understand better your analysis and how to better communicate the information.

I guess I failed to communicate properly. I meant the percentage of marriages that end in divorce. The whole 'divorce rate' as reported by the CDC doesn't give any clear information on that. All it states is number of marriages in a given year and number of divorces. The percentage is taken from that. Obviously, all of those divorces were not resultant from all of those marriages. Most will be from marriages from previous years. What we're looking for SPECIFICALLY is the percentage chance that a marriage will fail. -Meaning, ends in a way other than the death of one spouse. Obviously, that won't be available from a single year's data on how many people got married and how many people were divorced. As I stated in my post, I don't recall the source. I said it 'might' have been social security, Let's not all go off half-cocked and suddenly tear apart a statement that I never even made.

The rest of your post you're taking my original rant far, FAR too literally. I'm not saying that the CDC isn't reporting accurate data, I'm not trying to say it should be required for states to report...I'm not saying that I question whether the marriage stats really are recorded by the CDC (you said something about how you were not being flippant and facetious? I was. ) I don't know who you're talking about an unofficial rep of social security, I did NOT realize that anyone quoting a statistic from any source then becomes a 'rep' for the source they quoted...once again, if you read my post, I said that I did not remember the source that it *might* be SS. I think you are nit picking just a weeee bit too much here.

I'm not sure how you suddenly pulled special education into this either, unless you simply google searched '80% divorce rate' and came up with an article on Autism.

Edit to add: you're researching my moment of blowing off steam far more than I ever would have expected anyone to. If I wasn't as coherent as I should have been, I apologize!

Speaking of Autism, my son is in the beginning stages of a melt down -I can hear it in his voice. I'm a little busy and don't have time to search for some source for statistics on divorce that I'm really not going to bother with at the moment. I'll be seeing that speaker again within a couple of weeks and I'll just take notes.

Edit added -And thank God the boy calmed down. Crisis averted.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[billvon 3,111]

>government would try to find a way to require it on some (the mentally ill? Rapists? etc)

Governments have done that to some people (require Norplant or equivalent as a condition of their parole or plea.) So there's precedent. I don't think it is currently legal though. Also several governmental agencies offer Norplant either for free or with an incentive (like $100 or something.)

[mnealtx 0]

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>government would try to find a way to require it on some (the mentally ill? Rapists? etc)

Governments have done that to some people (require Norplant or equivalent as a condition of their parole or plea.) So there's precedent. I don't think it is currently legal though. Also several governmental agencies offer Norplant either for free or with an incentive (like $100 or something.)

That seems odd... they can force Ritalin on your kids, but not a contraceptive implant on a parolee?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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>government would try to find a way to require it on some (the mentally ill? Rapists? etc)

Governments have done that to some people (require Norplant or equivalent as a condition of their parole or plea.) So there's precedent. I don't think it is currently legal though. Also several governmental agencies offer Norplant either for free or with an incentive (like $100 or something.)

I've never heard of the parole deal...I think it's a good thing.

As far as offering Norplant at a reduced price...I know we could get it while in the army for free. I didn't opt for it due to the side effects, but a friend of mine did.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.