mnealtx 0 #76 January 8, 2008 QuoteQuotehis principles include socialized medicine, tax increases for the middle class, and he is no supporter of the second amendment. Which is why he is refreshing. We don't suspect it. We don't reckon it. We KNOW it. Well, we *know* that about all Dem candidates and most of the Reps, as well...but it *is* nice to actually see one admit it, that is true.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #77 January 8, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Couldn't agree more. Pure showmanship to get some sympathy and make her appear human and likable. The suckers on her forearms, pointy teeth and tiny horns really give it away, though. Even with her hooves covered by fashionable shoes. Exactly why i'd never vote for a woman. "TEARS UPON DEMAND" And what happens if her estrogen pills get fucked up. Look out. She'll have to spend a week at Camp David every month just to save everybody else the hassle of evacuating The white House. "What do you mean by ovary-action?!" Statements like this say more about you than about Hillary.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #78 January 8, 2008 I don't like all of his positions either, but I like enough of them to vote for him, and recognize that he is very unlikely to get all of those things. I'm willing to bet that even Democrats now know that tax hikes of any significance will be a fast ride out of office. Cigarettes, liquor, gas, and the like - no problem. Any attempt right now to hit people with anything more than a tiny incremental increase in income tax is political suicide. Federal gun control (in the flavor of nobody can have a gun) is generations away and will not be dependent on who is in The White House. Full-blown socialized medicine will not happen just because of the cost. Or as someone's Peter O'Rourke sig line says "If you think it's expensive now; wait until it's free." There will be needed changes such as guarantee issue, standardized benefit sets, closing of loopholes for special interests, and so forth; but I guarantee the price tag will prevent our federal government from actually owning the means to provide universal health care. Obama strikes me as a new breed who is actually going to listen, then act out to genuinely serve the broadest constituency possible. Hillary is an old-schooler who thinks she already knows how everybody should be. Straying a bit here, but I've always wondered how, with at least 80% of the population in favor of abortion in at least some cases (that being a very conservative "some"), how can any federal level politician get on board an abortion ban? How can they claim to represent the citizenry?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #79 January 8, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Couldn't agree more. Pure showmanship to get some sympathy and make her appear human and likable. The suckers on her forearms, pointy teeth and tiny horns really give it away, though. Even with her hooves covered by fashionable shoes. Exactly why i'd never vote for a woman. "TEARS UPON DEMAND" And what happens if her estrogen pills get fucked up. Look out. She'll have to spend a week at Camp David every month just to save everybody else the hassle of evacuating The white House. "What do you mean by ovary-action?!" Statements like this say more about you than about Hillary.... Facetious fun man. I figure from my posting history people would know. I'll have to remember to telegraph those with smilies." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #80 January 8, 2008 QuoteI don't like all of his positions either, but I like enough of them to vote for him, and recognize that he is very unlikely to get all of those things. I'm willing to bet that even Democrats now know that tax hikes of any significance will be a fast ride out of office. Cigarettes, liquor, gas, and the like - no problem. Any attempt right now to hit people with anything more than a tiny incremental increase in income tax is political suicide. Federal gun control (in the flavor of nobody can have a gun) is generations away and will not be dependent on who is in The White House. Full-blown socialized medicine will not happen just because of the cost. Or as someone's Peter O'Rourke sig line says "If you think it's expensive now; wait until it's free." There will be needed changes such as guarantee issue, standardized benefit sets, closing of loopholes for special interests, and so forth; but I guarantee the price tag will prevent our federal government from actually owning the means to provide universal health care. Obama strikes me as a new breed who is actually going to listen, then act out to genuinely serve the broadest constituency possible. Hillary is an old-schooler who thinks she already knows how everybody should be. Straying a bit here, but I've always wondered how, with at least 80% of the population in favor of abortion in at least some cases (that being a very conservative "some"), how can any federal level politician get on board an abortion ban? How can they claim to represent the citizenry? I wouldn't be so sure. If he gets a democratic congress he could pass pretty sweeping gun control, start the road to socialized medicine, and raise taxes for sure. I don't understand the credibility that Obama is given. He will fall victim to the machine that is Washington DC like they all do.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #81 January 8, 2008 I don't watch Fox news. In two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school." I could care less what his parents named him. But I'd bet the farm that being exposed to a Muslim school and environment affected him in some way. Didn't all of our upbringing affect each of us???? Thanks for the ignorant jab. nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #82 January 8, 2008 With all the hoorah about Romney's faith and "what it would mean in the White House", I'm surprised there's not been any mention of Obama's church and it's vision. No, wait, it's the MSM... I'm not surprised. http://www.tucc.org/about.htmMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #83 January 8, 2008 Quote I'll have to remember to telegraph those with smilies. Yey! Smilies! Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,603 #84 January 8, 2008 QuoteBut I'd bet the farm that being exposed to a Muslim school and environment affected him in some way.And I'd have to say that's probably a good thing. Because it means that there will be one more group that he won't automatically put into a basket and assume they're all alike. I was exposed to Brazilian schools; in fact, I was in 7th grade before I went to American schools. But, well, I'm nothing like either Carmen Miranda or Gisele Bundchen (darn it). Go figure. What being in another country did was to open my eyes to the variety of people all around the world, the vast majority of whom just want to have happy lives, and happy families. They're more human than Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, or Jewish. Once someone's religion (or any other qualifier) takes on primary importance in their lives, they are far more likely to become zealots. I don't really think that's good, because it robs one of the ability to judge through a multifaceted lens. His multicultural upbringing is one of the things that I like about Obama. I just hope he can balance his lack of experience with good advisors. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #85 January 8, 2008 Quote Quote I'll have to remember to telegraph those with smilies. Yey! Smilies! STOP IT! STOP IT AT ONCE!This is Speakers Corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,603 #86 January 8, 2008 How mixed are the churches that the other candidates go to? Almost certainly not very; Sunday morning is one of the most segregated times in America. The UCC is an aligned group of congregations, each of which can pick individual strengths. The UCC church I went to was open and affirming, which meant that homosexuals were welcome, even if it meant they showed affection during church events (just like everyone else). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #87 January 8, 2008 >I guess honesty and fidelity isn't very high on her list of issues either, then. Or maybe she understands her relationship with her husband better than you do. (I mean, I know you're very close to Bill Clinton and all, but isn't it possible that she knows him a little better than you do?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #88 January 8, 2008 I don't much answer to commands, but I entertain requests. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #89 January 8, 2008 >I could care less what his parents named him. But I'd bet the farm >that being exposed to a Muslim school and environment affected him in >some way. I spent four years in a predominantly Indian and Asian school. It definitely affected me! Made me far less prejudiced against people who look different than I do. If his exposure to other cultures gives him a better understanding of said cultures, then that makes him a better candidate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #90 January 8, 2008 I had very similar exposure and experience growing up my self, Europe when they didn't like Americans was quite eye opening. I would question the goal of an Islamic school funded by the Saudi government. There are things I too like about Obama, but those are outweighed by the things I do not like and/or agree with. I still wish we had a better pool of candidates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #91 January 8, 2008 >I would question the goal of an Islamic school funded by the Saudi >government. But not the goals of a private religious school funded by right-wing bible thumpers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #92 January 8, 2008 Quote> If his exposure to other cultures gives him a better understanding of said cultures, then that makes him a better candidate. regarding that singular issue, maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #93 January 8, 2008 Did I say that I did? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #94 January 8, 2008 Maybe you need to be tied. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #95 January 8, 2008 QuoteIn two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school." Why is there more to mention? I think most people understand that if you go to an Indonesian Public school you are going to be exposed to a lot of Muslims.....One might even call it a predominantly Muslim school.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #96 January 8, 2008 QuoteIf he gets a democratic congress he could pass pretty sweeping gun control, start the road to socialized medicine, and raise taxes for sure. Actually, Clinton tried that. Recall that in 1994, had Clinton been up for re-election unopposed, he would have lost. The "Republican Revolution" happened that year, and the GOP took Congress for the first time in, what, 40 years? Two years previously, Republicans were not liked. That year, Dems were not liked. Once the power was divided, the GOP kept getting elected to Congress and Clinton got re-elected and is now viewed as a good president. Obama knows that. I believe that he is actually one who would be deliberate in his actions, and not propose sweeping reforms from the get go. He'd spend a couple of years planning it and wait until after the 2010 elections to really go for it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #97 January 8, 2008 QuoteIn two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school." I see your point. But I attended a Jesuit law school. I attended kindergarten with predominantly Latino students. It doesn't mean he's Muslim. And if he's Muslim, it doesn't mean he's a bad guy. I think Obama is a GOOD guy. Personally, I like that Obama isn't focusing on his religion (or lack thereof). I like that he isn't focusing on his race. I like that he isn't focusing on anything but his ideas. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #98 January 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteIf he gets a democratic congress he could pass pretty sweeping gun control, start the road to socialized medicine, and raise taxes for sure. Actually, Clinton tried that. Recall that in 1994, had Clinton been up for re-election unopposed, he would have lost. The "Republican Revolution" happened that year, and the GOP took Congress for the first time in, what, 40 years? Well, they did let him raise taxes, and then used that to win Congress. Perfect have your cake and eat it too scenario. But yes, the GOP is perfectly capable and willing to using the fillibuster if they no longer have a President ready to veto everything. Pelosi's 2007 year proves this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #99 January 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf he gets a democratic congress he could pass pretty sweeping gun control, start the road to socialized medicine, and raise taxes for sure. Actually, Clinton tried that. Recall that in 1994, had Clinton been up for re-election unopposed, he would have lost. The "Republican Revolution" happened that year, and the GOP took Congress for the first time in, what, 40 years? Well, they did let him raise taxes, and then used that to win Congress. Perfect have your cake and eat it too scenario. But yes, the GOP is perfectly capable and willing to using the fillibuster if they no longer have a President ready to veto everything. Pelosi's 2007 year proves this. So, Dems threatening filibuster for what they want is good, Reps threatening filibuster for what they want is bad? Is that the gist of the comment?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #100 January 8, 2008 Quote>I guess honesty and fidelity isn't very high on her list of issues either, then. Or maybe she understands her relationship with her husband better than you do. (I mean, I know you're very close to Bill Clinton and all, but isn't it possible that she knows him a little better than you do?) The question of the day. She sat there on tv and claimed that speculations about her husbands infidelity were a "vast right wing conspiracy". Then, the denials ended when DNA evidence existed and it could not be denied. One possible answer, she is the most clueless person in the world. She didn't know what the entire state of Arkansas was well acquainted with. She didn't give any credence to the statements of the wives of personal friends and a laundry list of other women that goes back 20 years. Being that unaware is not a positive for a candidate. Or, she knew, and point-blank lied on tv to protect her political position and keep her husband out of trouble because of the political necessity. I go with option 2. I agree with you and she does know her husband better than all of us. She knows about the years of sexual harassment at work and the unwanted groping of other mens wives. She is ok with it. She seems willing to allow anything to protect her political future. People just don't trust her. Her integrity issue is one of her making. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
