Not everyone should have access to guns. Part 2 -- Huckabee.

[quade 4]

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/huckabees_muzzle_control_probl.html

Where the F is that NRA gun safety education program?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

I have hunted for years, ocasionaly with others who have hunted for years. Over those years I have limited those I go with to a very few, because those who I now choose not to hunt with, have the very same problem
Not just a Huckabee problem.

Sad just the same.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GQ_jumper 4]

Where the F is that NRA gun safety education program?

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I definitely wouldn't be against something like that being mandatory prior to purchasing firearms, especially after reading stories like this.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Where the F is that NRA gun safety education program?

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I definitely wouldn't be against something like that being mandatory prior to purchasing firearms, especially after reading stories like this.

Wouldn't that remove ownership from being a right? Wouldn't that make it a privilege that you have to earn, and could be denied by the government?
Just asking.

[Zipp0 1]

Reporters and cameramen shouldn't be out there in the first place!

But they were, and this is reckless and irresponsible behavior on the part of the hunters.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Where the F is that NRA gun safety education program?

Being coopted for political reasons. Because of the activity of its political side, and its opposition, the educational side has been branded as evil, like Joe Camel.

[mnealtx 0]

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Where the F is that NRA gun safety education program?

Being coopted for political reasons. Because of the activity of its political side, and its opposition, the educational side has been branded as evil, like Joe Camel.

Yeah, I have trouble with that, too.

VPC folks saying "Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult" is good, but NRA folks saying "Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult" is bad?? wtf??

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kschilk 0]

This time, it was only a shotgun....imagine what damage he could do, with the power of the presidency. I'd say it's a graphic example of his "concern" for the people. Besides, I thought all Huckabillies knew how to use guns!?!

"T'was ever thus."

[b1jercat 0]

The hunter education program is alive and well where I live. I see nothing wrong with turning a twelve year old loses with a rifle. Happend's all the time in fact it's encouraged.

blues

jerry

edit to add: Huckabee won't be in my hunting party.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Wouldn't that remove ownership from being a right? Wouldn't that make it a privilege that you have to earn, and could be denied by the government?
Just asking.

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You are 100% correct, it would no longer b a right and I'm OK with that, I've seen countless "trained professionals" do stupid things with guns while I was training them. So turning a "right" into an earned privilige to ensure guns are held by those who can use them responsibly only seems like a logical step forward with our righs.

Also IIRC the bill of rights legalizes gun ownership in order to maintain a properly equipped militia to defend our country. Shouldn't that also imply that the militia need to be properly trained as well as equipped? I wouldn't consider it a rollback of our rights just a new interpretation of them.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[masterrig 1]

Besides, I thought all Huckabillies knew how to use guns!?!

Obviously, this one doesn't!

What an idiot! Basic hunting rule... Know where everyone is while hunting! Geeze... couldn't this dumb-ass be charged with something? Oh... like... careless use of a firearm, life endangerment... something similar? This guy wants to be president? What a maroon!


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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Wouldn't that remove ownership from being a right? Wouldn't that make it a privilege that you have to earn, and could be denied by the government?
Just asking.

You are 100% correct, it would no longer b a right and I'm OK with that,

I'm not. You assume that the gov't will act in good faith when that is never the case.

While you're at it, which other rights are you willing to sign away?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[GQ_jumper 4]

I'm not. You assume that the gov't will act in good faith when that is never the case.

While you're at it, which other rights are you willing to sign away?

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Since it's a right would you be ok with convicted murderers getting out of prison and owning guns? How about someone who barely has the mental capacity to care for themselves, whether it be someone who's handicap was caused by birth or an accident, do you think they should be able to go out and carry guns as they please? If it's a right shouldn't it be given to EVERYONE?

Or how about we continue offering the rght to those who have shown they are not a threat to society SHOULD THEY POSSES A FIREARM. And while we are at it why not force people to prove they are trained to safely handle such a weapon. You have to take a hunter's safety course prior to hunting, why not take a firearms safety course prior to gun ownership?


Do you think that you are so experienced with weapons that taking a course to prove you are capable of keeping them is below you? Is that what your issue is? Don't forget I defend the rights of people in the US but when I see something that endangers people I look for a way to allow people to keep their rights that doesn't endanger innocents. If we continue to let idiots carry weapons than eventually we will get someone in ofice who has such a vendetta against gun ownership that they will completely take that right away, so we as gun owners need to act now and show that we are willing to ensure only people who can handle them properly carry weapons so the government doesn't feel the need to intervene on a grand scale.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[akarunway 1]

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Besides, I thought all Huckabillies knew how to use guns!?!

Obviously, this one doesn't!

What an idiot! Basic hunting rule... Know where everyone is while hunting! Geeze... couldn't this dumb-ass be charged with something? Oh... like... careless use of a firearm, life endangerment... something similar? This guy wants to be president? What a maroon!


ChuckMaybe DICK Cheney will become prez and he could be VICE prez and they could go hunting w/ SHRUBya

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[mnealtx 0]

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Since it's a right would you be ok with convicted murderers getting out of prison and owning guns? How about someone who barely has the mental capacity to care for themselves, whether it be someone who's handicap was caused by birth or an accident, do you think they should be able to go out and carry guns as they please? If it's a right shouldn't it be given to EVERYONE?

Until it is proven differently (that they cannot handle the responsibility or have forteited it due to violent crime convictions) - yes. Otherwise it's not a RIGHT.

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Or how about we continue offering the rght to those who have shown they are not a threat to society SHOULD THEY POSSES A FIREARM. And while we are at it why not force people to prove they are trained to safely handle such a weapon. You have to take a hunter's safety course prior to hunting, why not take a firearms safety course prior to gun ownership?

I think everyone should get training - but I don't think said training (required in almost ALL instances for CCW, I believe) should be a requirement for mere ownership.

Would you be in favor of training and licensing for owning books? How about for speaking in a public place?

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Do you think that you are so experienced with weapons that taking a course to prove you are capable of keeping them is below you? Is that what your issue is? Don't forget I defend the rights of people in the US but when I see something that endangers people I look for a way to allow people to keep their rights that doesn't endanger innocents.

No, I don't think that - but you evidently think that the training and courses that you have taken make you beyond criticism. What you advocate is no longer a right but a privelege you beg the government for, hat in hand.

***If we continue to let idiots carry weapons than eventually we will get someone in ofice who has such a vendetta against gun ownership that they will completely take that right away, so we as gun owners need to act now and show that we are willing to ensure only people who can handle them properly carry weapons so the government doesn't feel the need to intervene on a grand scale.

[GQ_jumper 4]

I believe you are reading too far into my posts. Gun ownership implies that the individual intends at some point to use the gun. Do you not agree that everone who intends to use a gun should have some sort of training in safe handling of the gun with a set of course standards they have to meet?

If individuals show they cannot handle a weapon safely they don't need to have one. You need to take a drivers test to posses a drivers license, vehicles can kill people in an instant just s guns can, so why not train people to properly use them.

And also the last time I checked, if you misread a passge in a book that pasage doesn't go flying out of the book and possibly kill someone, so I'm not to sure needing training or a library card is the best answer, just my opinion.

Oh, and at no point have I ever said my training put me above criticism, so quit trying to take cheap shots to discount my opinion.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[mnealtx 0]

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I believe you are reading too far into my posts. Gun ownership implies that the individual intends at some point to use the gun. Do you not agree that everone who intends to use a gun should have some sort of training in safe handling of the gun with a set of course standards they have to meet?

I refer you back to my comment about training/licensing to own books. It boils down to the same thing, as far as the right itself is concerned.

Also as I stated above, do I think training is a good idea? Yes, absolutely. Do I think it should be a prerequisite for ownership? No.

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If individuals show they cannot handle a weapon safely they don't need to have one. You need to take a drivers test to posses a drivers license, vehicles can kill people in an instant just s guns can, so why not train people to properly use them.

Ok - military and police first, then, since you are so hot to advocate it. If you can honestly say that military and police, who are SUPPOSED to be extremely well trained (somewhat valid for military and to a large degree a JOKE for most police officer) never have an negligent discharge, then we'll talk about requiring it for the general public.

Somehow, I doubt Suzie Homemaker is going to need much training to realize that the 6'4", 220 lb man who just grabbed her and said "Bitch, you're coming with me" is a threat and what to do about it.

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And also the last time I checked, if you misread a passge in a book that pasage doesn't go flying out of the book and possibly kill someone, so I'm not to sure needing training or a library card is the best answer, just my opinion.

That's exactly the can of worms you COULD be opening up.

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Oh, and at no point have I ever said my training put me above criticism, so quit trying to take cheap shots to discount my opinion.

Yet that is EXACTLY what you implied of me from my answer.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,148]

Well, said.

The best way responsible gun owners can protect their right is to see that the right is not abused by the incapable and the irresponsible.

Requiring a training program would be in line with the 2nd amendment, IMO. What use is an unregulated and untrained militia anyway?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, said.

The best way responsible gun owners can protect their right is to see that the right is not abused by the incapable and the irresponsible.

Requiring a training program would be in line with the 2nd amendment, IMO. What use is an unregulated and untrained militia anyway?

Except for the fact that the clause is subordinate and not restrictive, perhaps. Training is good - I advocate it but it should NOT be made a prerequisite unless you want to open the door to book licenses/training, etc... what you advocate for one right can be transferred to all.

As for what use an unregulated and untrained militia is.... ask the British.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[masterrig 1]

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Besides, I thought all Huckabillies knew how to use guns!?!

Obviously, this one doesn't!

What an idiot! Basic hunting rule... Know where everyone is while hunting! Geeze... couldn't this dumb-ass be charged with something? Oh... like... careless use of a firearm, life endangerment... something similar? This guy wants to be president? What a maroon!


Chuck

Maybe DICK Cheney will become prez and he could be VICE prez and they could go hunting w/ SHRUBya

What a concept!


Chuck

[auburnguy 0]

I just came back from bird hunting for the weekend and I didn't take plenty of shots because of someone or a dog might have been too close or have been anywhere near where my gun would swing. Having said that I have seen the Huckabee video and while it was a shot I wouldn't have taken it wasn't as close as people are making it out to be.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[rushmc 23]

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I just came back from bird hunting for the weekend and I didn't take plenty of shots because of someone or a dog might have been too close or have been anywhere near where my gun would swing. Having said that I have seen the Huckabee video and while it was a shot I wouldn't have taken it wasn't as close as people are making it out to be.

Now, why am I NOT surprises

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Also IIRC the bill of rights legalizes gun ownership in order to maintain a properly equipped militia to defend our country. Shouldn't that also imply that the militia need to be properly trained as well as equipped? I wouldn't consider it a rollback of our rights just a new interpretation of them.

Your recollection is incorrect.

And you really have to think hard about how literacy tests and poll taxes were used to deny blacks the right to vote before you think about altering this right.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Well as for your little crack on the military, basic training does exactly dick to make someone competent with a firearm, it's continued training and familiarization that makes one proficient.

And if I read your post right yu are saying that untrained people should be able to purchase firearms as they can now, but at what point do you consider it necessary to require training. I am just trying to understand your point of view so we don't keep going in circles with our replies.

I have seen too many idiots, civilians as well as military do stupid things with firearms whih is why i believe anyone who puts their hands on one should be properly trained. And again, I argue that your little book anecdote doesn't tie in to this argument at all. Please tell me how a book can be lethal short of someone making a Wil-E-Coyote-esque contraption utilizing books, anvils, and an oversized rubber band.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[mnealtx 0]

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Well as for your little crack on the military, basic training does exactly dick to make someone competent with a firearm, it's continued training and familiarization that makes one proficient.

Wow, no shit... I never would have guessed. Yes, that was sarcasm, and I am a vet.

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And if I read your post right yu are saying that untrained people should be able to purchase firearms as they can now, but at what point do you consider it necessary to require training. I am just trying to understand your point of view so we don't keep going in circles with our replies.

I don't think it's NECESSARY at any point to require training. I do, as I've already asserted several times in the thread, think that getting training is a good idea.

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I have seen too many idiots, civilians as well as military do stupid things with firearms whih is why i believe anyone who puts their hands on one should be properly trained. And again, I argue that your little book anecdote doesn't tie in to this argument at all. Please tell me how a book can be lethal short of someone making a Wil-E-Coyote-esque contraption utilizing books, anvils, and an oversized rubber band.

I think where the disconnect is happening is that you're making a direct comparison between books and guns, where I am talking about the nature of rights as a whole. If the government is allowed MORE intrusion into where and how ONE right can be granted, you open the door to allow that same intrusion into ALL rights (such as the Jim Crow laws).

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706