Benazir Bhutto Killed In Attack

[Skyrad 0]

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If by shall issue you mean has some of the largest arms bazaars on the planet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M

Been to Darra market back in the 80's. What that film doesn't show you is the shops that openly have sweet (Candy) jars full of pure Heroin on the shelves or massive amounts of canabis resin out on the shelves like giant slabs of car tyres. Its a hell of a place.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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She was a dead woman walking from the instant she got off the plane on her return from exile. It was just a matter of time.

Then why did she go back? She had money, fame...could have made plenty more of both giving lecture dinners, and writing a book. I was kind of wondering this when she put herself back in harms way in the first place.

Because she wanted power.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Sounds like a good reason for George II to push Mushy for an all out assualt by our troops in the Tribal Areas since he cant do it.

Only a good idea if you want to see alot more dead Americans. These people have known nothing but war for all their lives and are armed to the teeth.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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Only a good idea if you want to see alot more dead Americans. These people have known nothing but war for all their lives and are armed to the teeth.

War is not a sport of the meek of heart.... BUT this is the area where the actual enemy is....if we are at war with AQ and the Islamic radicals.. then so be it... wanna bet the body count is a lot higher on the radical side.....

Start out with a fleet of the pilotless drones.. and everytime a controller sees a gathering with weapons..... send them a nice little present... day or night.. these are not people who are friends of the west... and would do anything to kill a westerner..... so be it... they wanted a war... give it to them in all its fury.

[shropshire 0]

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Couldn't agree more - probably already happened, don't you think?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

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Only a good idea if you want to see alot more dead Americans. These people have known nothing but war for all their lives and are armed to the teeth.

War is not a sport of the meek of heart.... BUT this is the area where the actual enemy is....if we are at war with AQ and the Islamic radicals.. then so be it... wanna bet the body count is a lot higher on the radical side.....

Start out with a fleet of the pilotless drones.. and everytime a controller sees a gathering with weapons..... send them a nice little present... day or night.. these are not people who are friends of the west... and would do anything to kill a westerner..... so be it... they wanted a war... give it to them in all its fury.

Your thinking makes sense if you are a American who knows nothing about the area. No offence but every male over the age of about 8yrs old carries a rifle or machine gun, they always have done. If you go about blasting anyone with a weapon then all you'll do is ignite further hatred against the US amoung the Islamic and developing world. This is a war you win by intelligence and careful strikes not by great indiscriminate firepower.

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if we are at war with AQ and the Islamic radicals.. then so be it... wanna bet the body count is a lot higher on the radical side.....

I think your president stated it before "Bring it on!" several thousand dead young Americans and tens of thousands of maimed and psychologicly damaged young Americans later (not even going to mention innocent non Americans) and what has been achived?
Fuck all.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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Your thinking makes sense if you are a American who knows nothing about the area. No offence but every male over the age of about 8yrs old carries a rifle or machine gun, they always have done. If you go about blasting anyone with a weapon then all you'll do is ignite further hatred against the US amoung the Islamic and developing world. This is a war you win by intelligence and careful strikes not by great indiscriminate firepower.

I have some pretty good insights into the area.... They are protecting and supplying Bin Laden and AQ... they have gone far beyond just protecting a GUEST.... as is custom.
THE FRIEND OF MY ENEMY IS MY ENEMY..
They have openly supported the Taliban.... and are suplying them with the means to wage war.

This is a clear cut case of being the enemy... and I dont think we could make it any worse for their hatred of the west by attacking them.....

They are the ones who will not make peace... so give them a REAL war.. with DEATH from above.
In war... you kill the enemy... and continue to kill them until they dont want war any more....

These are the people who declared war on us... we may not have "gotten" it for a while... but ya know what.... we get it now... too bad this incompetent fuck would not have stayed the course in Afghanistan in the first place.. and followed our enemy across the border into their stronghold.

Edited to add.
Good reason for them to learn a new way of living... if you are carrying around an RPG.. and an AK... you die....live by the AK.. DIE by the AK

[Skyrad 0]

No offence but it sounds like you've watched one Rambo film to many. Guess only Americans have the right to bear arms in their own country eh?
Hearts and minds eh? Follow your strategy and watch your countrys economy collapse and your youth die in far away lands.
Alternativly work hearts and minds and intelligence led attacks.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kschilk 0]

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For anyone that wanted to see her dead, it is a win-win situation, be quiet, do not claim responsibility, and let the other faction take the brunt of the retaliation.

Textbook example of assasination don't you think?

Things like this have a tendency to backfire. This could seriously erode support for terrorists and other extremists, it could end up being an intelligence coup for the U.S. and its allies. She had plenty of followers and supporters already but this could tip the fence-sitters, more in her direction. She's a martyr now and over there, that has power.

"T'was ever thus."

[Amazon 7]

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No offence but it sounds like you've watched one Rambo film to many.

Yes I find it offensive and no I am not into Rambo films.. I leave those to the stupid right wing fucks who got us into the Incompetence in Iraq...yet will not go themselves.

Hopefully when you were a child you learned at an early age.. that you do NOT go up to the biggest person in the school and kick them in the shin.... you HAVE to then expect an ass whoopin.

At this point I have had it with hearing the same old tired shit over and over.. and am about ready to support a severely scorched earth policy.. kill all of the fucks in the area and let ALLAH sort em out. Bin Laden and all those who love him want a HOLY WAR.. well I think we can bring it to them since that is what they want. THEY are our ENEMY.. They give no mercy to captives. and in fact revel in the most disturbed atrocities.. I think turn about is fair play.. No Mercy.. No quarter...

Hearts and minds will not work in this region.. the Wahabists and the Madrasas have seen to that.. and they are already killing our young.... our women.. our children.. indiscriminately because we do not believe as they do. The area of Waziristan etc.. is a rats nest.. time for the fucking exterminator.

[jakee 1,596]

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Hopefully when you were a child you learned at an early age.. that you do NOT go up to the biggest person in the school and kick them in the shin.... you HAVE to then expect an ass whoopin.

Hopefully you learned at a slightly older age that nations are not the same as individual people.

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well I think we can bring it to them since that is what they want. THEY are our ENEMY.. They give no mercy to captives. and in fact revel in the most disturbed atrocities.. I think turn about is fair play.. No Mercy.. No quarter...

Who are 'They'? Where do 'They' live? Is everyone in a certain geographical area a member of 'They'?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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Who are 'They'? Where do 'They' live? Is everyone in a certain geographical area a member of 'They'?

They are the people of the tribal areas who live by a code that vilifies anyone not in the tribe... or a valued "guest" who is like thinking who they support and worship.

It is a lawless area that supports the killing of innocents.. and that is ALMOST to a Man Woman and Child there. The bazaars are filled with items praising and building a cult of personality around the great leader wh declared Holy War on the USA.. MEN... as well as women and children. There is no point in trying to win hearts and minds of a people who feel impotent in the world that worship those who leave it by detonating bombs indiscriminately to kill anyone not like them... so those are the rules...kill or be killed by some radical nut job.... again.. THEY declared war on US.. there is no mercy or quarter from them... so give them what they desire...so much.. well not everything.... remove them from earth without them being able to take some infidels with them.

Radicals do not want peace nor do they, like the Palistinians, are they willing to wage peace. The only alternative is to give them the Holy War they wanted.

[akarunway 1]

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Who are 'They'? Where do 'They' live? Is everyone in a certain geographical area a member of 'They'?

They are the people of the tribal areas who live by a code that vilifies anyone not in the tribe... or a valued "guest" who is like thinking who they support and worship.

It is a lawless area that supports the killing of innocents.. and that is ALMOST to a Man Woman and Child there. The bazaars are filled with items praising and building a cult of personality around the great leader wh declared Holy War on the USA.. MEN... as well as women and children. There is no point in trying to win hearts and minds of a people who feel impotent in the world that worship those who leave it by detonating bombs indiscriminately to kill anyone not like them... so those are the rules...kill or be killed by some radical nut job.... again.. THEY declared war on US.. there is no mercy or quarter from them... so give them what they desire...so much.. well not everything.... remove them from earth without them being able to take some infidels with them.

Radicals do not want peace nor do they, like the Palistinians, are they willing to wage peace. The only alternative is to give them the Holy War they wanted.

jean. You're losing focus. You have go to back to the root of the problem.> A short readhttp://www.answering-islam.org/t_root.htmlMe myself and I think if they don't want a fuckin McDonalds on ever corner let them be. And we don't need their fukin oil and we don't need to be the WORLD POLICE.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Amazon 7]

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Me myself and I think if they don't want a fuckin McDonalds on ever corner let them be. And we don't need their fukin oil and we don't need to be the WORLD POLICE.

I would have to concur with Frank at this point...

We can not let them be as THEY PROVED that THEY will NOT let us be... THEY do not believe in live and let live.



I have been to the middle east and personally I am not ready to live in a 7th century hell on earth.

[akarunway 1]

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Me myself and I think if they don't want a fuckin McDonalds on ever corner let them be. And we don't need their fukin oil and we don't need to be the WORLD POLICE.

I would have to concur with Frank at this point...

We can not let them be as THEY PROVED that THEY will NOT let us be... THEY do not believe in live and let live.



I have been to the middle east and personally I am not ready to live in a 7th century hell on earth.

Yeah well Jean. If we wouldn't have imposed our (the USA and big Corps) on them MAYBE (a big maybe) they wouldn't be so fuckin pissed at us. Leave em alone. Let em live in whatever fuckin century they want. None of my business.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[TheAnvil 0]

ISI involvement could be quite likely, but I don't think its senior leadership would approve of such. Probably one or two of its members were involved at some level. Lots of variables in the Pakistan equation. For some odd reason my gut is telling me Musharraf didn't do this or approve of it. Say waht you like about the ISI and Musharraf, they love their country and I don't think they would destabilize it so.

If the Pakistani people accept this as the work of AQ and its supporters in the Waziristan/border areas, then the Pakistani military will begin operations there soon. They'll likely do so anyway.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Skyrad 0]

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For anyone that wanted to see her dead, it is a win-win situation, be quiet, do not claim responsibility, and let the other faction take the brunt of the retaliation.

Textbook example of assasination don't you think?

Things like this have a tendency to backfire. This could seriously erode support for terrorists and other extremists, it could end up being an intelligence coup for the U.S. and its allies. She had plenty of followers and supporters already but this could tip the fence-sitters, more in her direction. She's a martyr now and over there, that has power.

A martyr according to her brother and her followers. Don'6t go reading to much into this. Remember she ran away from Pakistan for several years because she was up on corruption charges. The Pakistani people may like a good riot now and then but they have very long memories. She was a corrupt politician and no amount of western spin about what a great hope for Pakistan she was will wash that away.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Yes I find it offensive and no I am not into Rambo films.. I leave those to the stupid right wing fucks who got us into the Incompetence in Iraq...yet will not go themselves.

And yet now you advocate getting into an even bigger mess in NWFP/Pakistan before your country has even sorted out the mess in Iraq.

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Hopefully when you were a child you learned at an early age.. that you do NOT go up to the biggest person in the school and kick them in the shin.... you HAVE to then expect an ass whoopin.

When I was a child I learnt first hand what the Mujahideen was capabily of, not by sitting and watching CNN or FOX but by being there. The reason that America got off so lightly in Afghanistan was because they didn't commit that many troops and used the Northern Alliance as a proxy army supplying airpower and intelligence and special forces to win. When US troops went in to the mountains they often got their arses kicked, remember Anaconda? "We don't do mountains" was a quote I remember. So they got the Royal Marines in to do the job. In Helmand province in the south of Afghanistan the British forces are fighting the most casualty heavy war since WWII. Sorry to hurt your feelings but quite simply other than your special forces your troops simply aren't upto the job and your country lacks the political support at home to see the job through. If the US goes in with boots on the ground in NWFP expect a "ass whoopin".

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At this point I have had it with hearing the same old tired shit over and over.. and am about ready to support a severely scorched earth policy.. kill all of the fucks in the area and let ALLAH sort em out. ***

So you are advocating a stratergy of terrorism, well its nice to have you out of the closet. You sound like Ann Coulter, exactly what is the difference between you and the Republicans you seem to hate so much, because from reading your posts in this thread you sound like a very right wing Neo Con.

Hearts and minds will not work in this region.. the Wahabists and the Madrasas have seen to that..

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Do you understand that is an oxymoron.

The area of Waziristan etc.. is a rats nest.. time for the fucking exterminator.
***
A neo con crossed with a WFF anouncer. That comment makes you no better than Bin Laden. Congratulations he has won.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Who are 'They'? Where do 'They' live? Is everyone in a certain geographical area a member of 'They'?

They are the people of the tribal areas who live by a code that vilifies anyone not in the tribe... or a valued "guest" who is like thinking who they support and worship.

It is a lawless area that supports the killing of innocents.. and that is ALMOST to a Man Woman and Child there. The bazaars are filled with items praising and building a cult of personality around the great leader wh declared Holy War on the USA.. MEN... as well as women and children. There is no point in trying to win hearts and minds of a people who feel impotent in the world that worship those who leave it by detonating bombs indiscriminately to kill anyone not like them... so those are the rules...kill or be killed by some radical nut job.... again.. THEY declared war on US.. there is no mercy or quarter from them... so give them what they desire...so much.. well not everything.... remove them from earth without them being able to take some infidels with them.

Radicals do not want peace nor do they, like the Palistinians, are they willing to wage peace. The only alternative is to give them the Holy War they wanted.

You know nothing of the area, the people or the customs. That psot is as sane as ..

The Americans eat babies, worship the devil and wish to kill us all.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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ISI involvement could be quite likely, but I don't think its senior leadership would approve of such. Probably one or two of its members were involved at some level. Lots of variables in the Pakistan equation. For some odd reason my gut is telling me Musharraf didn't do this or approve of it. Say waht you like about the ISI and Musharraf, they love their country and I don't think they would destabilize it so.

If the Pakistani people accept this as the work of AQ and its supporters in the Waziristan/border areas, then the Pakistani military will begin operations there soon. They'll likely do so anyway.

I agree with you that I doubt that GPM had anything to do with it. The que of people who wanted her dead was quite long even if he had wanted her dead all he had to do was wait until someone else did it. Her house was well guarded (I've been there) but outside of it she was an easy target. As for the Pakistani army going into Waziristan most likley they will have to but they will as always suffer high losses in doing so and most likely it will achieve very little. GPM can do without mre bad news so I doubt it will be a prolonged raid.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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So you are advocating a stratergy of terrorism, well its nice to have you out of the closet. You sound like Ann Coulter, exactly what is the difference between you and the Republicans you seem to hate so much, because from reading your posts in this thread you sound like a very right wing Neo Con.

And what are you sounding like here.. that seems to be some VERY heavy support for the islamic radical terrorists. I have seen a whole lot of how much you know the area....hmmmmmmm

The difference between me and the republicans.... I would actually LISTEN to the professional soldiers that we have trained... to fight a war....instead of going with the Bible.. or the Koran for guidance on how to fight a war like our administration.. and AQ have done.

[Skyrad 0]

Yea I must be a radical seeing as I'm not an American and traveled without milliatry aid.

You want to see alot more dead Americans then follow your unreasoned irrational .

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

It seems you are good with the dead americans thing.. So just what is your solution ...give our enemies free reign to attack at will... all those evil christians must die if they will not convert???? After all... the passages demanding that are right there in the holy book of the religion of peace are they not??

I added a few of your fucking crazy icons just for you.


I would be happy with about 1000 or so pilotless drones........and anytime the operator sees something worth engaging.. do it... Make their litttle paradise a hell on earth till they get the idea.. that perhaps peace is a better course. They can get some nice pocket change in the process just give up the criminals who attacked us.
It is VERY reasonsed.. and VERY rational....if you cant live in peace with the people you want to attack.. the other people have the right to KILL YOU.

[Gawain 0]

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She was a dead woman walking from the instant she got off the plane on her return from exile. It was just a matter of time.

Too true, unfortunately. We'll soon see what changes her "martyrdom" will effect...

No doubt Al Qaeda will be blamed and it will be used as an excuse for more "War on Terror" restrictions.

However, if we use the "follow the money" concept to see who benefits, the biggest beneficiary would seem to be Musharraf. Hard to see how AQ would benefit.

Bhutto's return to Pakistan strengthened Musharraf's position, especially as he left the military. Bhutto was pro-western, anti-extremist, favored direct involvement in the mountains to oust AQ, and her positions made her a perfect shoe-in for Prime Minister, while Musharraf remained President. It was a win-win. From democratic practices to get her into office to providing legitimacy to the opposition party.

Musharraf was in total control. His release of power following martial law was not some hapless act. AQ has shit-tons of money too. So, following the money is not going to reveal a whole lot.

What I find unfortunate is how the scene of the attack and assassination was not contained. Already, it's been hosed down.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,150]

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She was a dead woman walking from the instant she got off the plane on her return from exile. It was just a matter of time.

Too true, unfortunately. We'll soon see what changes her "martyrdom" will effect...

No doubt Al Qaeda will be blamed and it will be used as an excuse for more "War on Terror" restrictions.

However, if we use the "follow the money" concept to see who benefits, the biggest beneficiary would seem to be Musharraf. Hard to see how AQ would benefit.

Bhutto's return to Pakistan strengthened Musharraf's position, especially as he left the military. Bhutto was pro-western, anti-extremist, favored direct involvement in the mountains to oust AQ, and her positions made her a perfect shoe-in for Prime Minister, while Musharraf remained President. It was a win-win. From democratic practices to get her into office to providing legitimacy to the opposition party.

Musharraf was in total control. His release of power following martial law was not some hapless act. AQ has shit-tons of money too. So, following the money is not going to reveal a whole lot.

What I find unfortunate is how the scene of the attack and assassination was not contained. Already, it's been hosed down.

I put "follow the money" in quotes and added the words "concept" and "benefit" for a reason. The reader was expected to infer that we look to see who benefits, and benefits do not have to be financial.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.