Santa almost Shot Down over Brazil

[1969912 0]

You can't make this stuff up!

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSEIC85598720071219?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews
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EDIT to add:

Well no wonder Santa almost got shot down, Brazil has ~3 times the gun murder rate of the US.

According to the Small Arms Study, Brazil has 9 guns per 100 people, which is 1/10 the rate of the highest per capita country, the US.

Also, (quoting from "The Numbers Speak For Themselves", John Hay Rabb. From Guns & Ammo mag):

"All firearms in Brazil must be registered with the government. This registration process can take anywhere from 30 days to three months. All civilian handguns are limited in caliber to no more than 9mm. All rifles must fire handgun ammunition only. Brazilians may only buy one gun per year. At any one time, they may only have in their possession a maximum of six guns: two handguns, two rifles and two shotguns. To transport their guns, citizens must obtain a special police permit. CCW permits are available but are rarely issued."

Brazil has a per capita overall murder rate (ALL WEAPONS) of ~20/100,000 pop. US rate is ~6/100,000. 3.3 times

Brazil has a per capita gun murder rate (FIREARMS ONLY) of ~11/100,000 pop. US rate is ~4/100,000. 2.8 times
-----------------------

So the US has TEN times as many guns per capita as Brazil, and the US has few gun restrictions, brazil many.

US has ~33% of Brazil's (All Weapons) murder rate. US has ~35% of Brazil's (Firearms Only) murder rate.

No causation implied, but it's still true re: Brazil/US:

Ten times the guns, 1/3 the murders. No wonder Santa narrowly escaped a brutal death by firearm.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Most of Rio's 700-plus slums are controlled by drug traffickers and are not regularly patrolled by police, who instead go into the slums in military-style raids, often using helicopters and armored vehicles.

Looks like they didn't do their simple homework! I mean, taking a helicopter with something good onboard can't be determined to be so on the ground when the police raids are carried with the same vehicle.

On another hand I take issue with your graft in your attachment. I'd like to see the web site that it came off of. I'm not buying that 9 out of 10 people in the U.S. own firearms. Perhaps the number of guns out there per capita might be defendable, but people who own one gun most likely own 2 or more.... Misleading statistics.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Most of Rio's 700-plus slums are controlled by drug traffickers and are not regularly patrolled by police, who instead go into the slums in military-style raids, often using helicopters and armored vehicles.

Looks like they didn't do their simple homework! I mean, taking a helicopter with something good onboard can't be determined to be so on the ground when the police raids are carried with the same vehicle.

On another hand I take issue with your graft in your attachment. I'd like to see the web site that it came off of. I'm not buying that 9 out of 10 people in the U.S. own firearms. Perhaps the number of guns out there per capita might be defendable, but people who own one gun most likely own 2 or more.... Misleading statistics.

ltdiver

I will go looking but I have seen a UN report as well as others stating 90 guns per 100 people. Now, many of those are multiples owned by one person but I will see if I can find it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[1969912 0]

Quote

Quote

Most of Rio's 700-plus slums are controlled by drug traffickers and are not regularly patrolled by police, who instead go into the slums in military-style raids, often using helicopters and armored vehicles.

Looks like they didn't do their simple homework! I mean, taking a helicopter with something good onboard can't be determined to be so on the ground when the police raids are carried with the same vehicle.

On another hand I take issue with your graft in your attachment. I'd like to see the web site that it came off of. I'm not buying that 9 out of 10 people in the U.S. own firearms. Perhaps the number of guns out there per capita might be defendable, but people who own one gun most likely own 2 or more.... Misleading statistics.

ltdiver

Right. there's no way that 9 out people in the US own guns. The graph just shows per capita firearms and doesn't say anything about how many people own how many. The graph would be the same if all US guns were owned by one person.

The graph came from here:

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/year_b_pdf/2007/2007SAS_English_press_kit/2007SASCh2_summary_en.pdf


Which is part of (Chapter 2. 'Completing the Count: Civilian Firearms') this study:

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/yearb2007.html


In post #76 of mnealtx's "Gun control/availability of guns" thread nerdgirl posted a link to the methodology used in the study:

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/year_b_pdf/2007/CH2%20Stockpiles.pdf
---------------------

I don't understand how it's misleading. The way I saw it was that it's just a way to show gun ownership corrected for poulation so that country by country comparisons can be made.

Is the study reliable? I have no idea, but there are certainly a lot of guns in the US.

BTW and FWIW, the Small Arms Survey group is clearly anti-gun.

Thank God Santa is OK

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[1969912 0]

Quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

Rushmc,

The basis of the news story in your first link is the SAS (see my reply to ltdiver above). I think the SAS was UN-funded, but I'm not certain.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

Thanks for the web sites.

Now to quote from them:

Quote

"The United States is unique among wealthy nations
in its vast private inventory of firearms. The
nearly 200 million guns in private hands..."

And from this web site which shows the population of the U.S.--

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

"U.S. Population:301,139,947.

Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun ownership per capita. Not the 90%.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[1969912 0]

[url]Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun ownership per capita. Not the 90%. ***

The link re the methdology used in the SAS addresses that. Basically, the number of US firearms is not known for certain. Any numbers you see are estimates, and each study can produce differet results. Also look at the year of the estimate because the number of guns is always increasing. The SAS is unique in that it looked at ownership worldwide.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Basically, the number of US firearms is not known for certain. Any numbers you see are estimates, and each study can produce differet results.

And thus the aforementioned 90% is misleading.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[billvon 3,132]

>Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun
>ownership per capita.

That assumes no one owns more than one gun. I think there are enough John Riches out there that the percentage of people who own guns is significantly smaller.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

>Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun
>ownership per capita.

That assumes no one owns more than one gun. I think there are enough John Riches out there that the percentage of people who own guns is significantly smaller.

Thank you, yes.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

Thanks for the web sites.

Now to quote from them:

Quote

"The United States is unique among wealthy nations
in its vast private inventory of firearms. The
nearly 200 million guns in private hands..."

And from this web site which shows the population of the U.S.--

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

"U.S. Population:301,139,947.

Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun ownership per capita. Not the 90%.

ltdiver

As I stated in the first reply. 90 guns per 100 people with multiple ownership, (may not show 9 in 10 own guns.)

Some of those sites were older (pre 911 which has made some difference) and very slanted but I posted them anyway as it was the first info I came across. I will look at the others provided now and keep looking

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun
>ownership per capita.

That assumes no one owns more than one gun. I think there are enough John Riches out there that the percentage of people who own guns is significantly smaller.

As you say, guesses are all we have, on both sides.

I think the only one we may be able to trust at some level is the 90 guns per 100 people (not 90% owning guns)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

Rushmc,

The basis of the news story in your first link is the SAS (see my reply to ltdiver above). I think the SAS was UN-funded, but I'm not certain.

Good point I dont know for sure either. And depending on the "side" the numbers will be worked for max effect.

I am going to keep looking as I have seen a very comprehensive statistical estimate looking into how many in the US own guns. I do not remember the
%age however.

IF I find it I will post

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

Quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

Rushmc,

The basis of the news story in your first link is the SAS (see my reply to ltdiver above). I think the SAS was UN-funded, but I'm not certain.

Good point I dont know for sure either. And depending on the "side" the numbers will be worked for max effect.

I am going to keep looking as I have seen a very comprehensive statistical estimate looking into how many in the US own guns. I do not remember the
%age however.

IF I find it I will post

According to data previously cited on this forum, 41% of US households own guns.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[1969912 0]

Quote

>Now if I do my math correctly this comes out to about 66.4% gun
>ownership per capita.

I think there are enough John Riches out there that the percentage of people who own guns is significantly smaller.

Is the 24 hours already up?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I think the SAS was UN-funded, but I'm not certain.

Verbatim from the report:
“The Small Arms Survey project is supported by the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs, and by contributions from the Governments of Canada, Finland, France, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.”

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[1969912 0]

Quote

Quote

I think the SAS was UN-funded, but I'm not certain.

Verbatim from the report:
“The Small Arms Survey project is supported by the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs, and by contributions from the Governments of Canada, Finland, France, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.”

VR/Marg

Thanks. Good thing I wasn't certain.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

And thus the aforementioned 90% is misleading.

The units are guns per 100 people.

I guess the inclination to turn /100 into percentage could happen. It could be stated as 9 guns per 10 people or 900 guns per 1000 people .

E.g, I have no idea what the US per capita rate of rig & parachute possession is; however, I have two rigs and four parachutes (although 1 rig


I concur that having information on the distribution of those guns by household would be very interesting, e.g., is there a very small number of people who have 100+ guns or is it a normal distribution or something else?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

Rushmc,

The basis of the news story in your first link is the SAS (see my reply to ltdiver above). I think the SAS was UN-funded, but I'm not certain.

Good point I dont know for sure either. And depending on the "side" the numbers will be worked for max effect.

I am going to keep looking as I have seen a very comprehensive statistical estimate looking into how many in the US own guns. I do not remember the
%age however.

IF I find it I will post

According to data previously cited on this forum, 41% of US households own guns.

That would make more sense to me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

And thus the aforementioned 90% is misleading.

The units are guns per 100 people.

I guess the inclination to turn /100 into percentage could happen. It could be stated as 9 guns per 10 people or 900 guns per 1000 people .

E.g, I have no idea what the US per capita rate of rig & parachute possession is; however, I have two rigs and four parachutes (although 1 rig


I concur that having information on the distribution of those guns by household would be very interesting, e.g., is there a very small number of people who have 100+ guns or is it a normal distribution or something else?

VR/Marg

I know two who have at least 30 each and one of them could well have over 100 guns himself.

He is a farmer with a wife and 3 kids.

With the reloading supplies he has should a fire ever break out at his place I think half of the county may become a hole

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[FreeflyChile 0]

And I'm flyin to Brazil tomorrow...I guess I won't wear my santa outfit...

[SpeedRacer 1]

So what would be a good weapon to mount on a flying sleigh?

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[FreeflyChile 0]

I think you could feed the raindeer chili before taking off...that would make for some good ammunition...