It's getting out of hand!

[KelliJ 0]

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So to surmise, the 60-odd deaths resulting from tasing are "suspected, but have yet to be proven"?
How long ago were you tased?

Can you read and actually comprehend what you read? The deaths and serious injuries were very real (duh ) but tasers being the only cause was only suspected.

I was tased 7 years ago.

[freethefly 6]

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A great attitude in general, maybe. I don't know since I've never met him. But his attitude toward wanting to physically take down any and all who resist instead of using the tools available-including tasers-will most likely end up with him getting hurt someday. He has no right calling others who do choose to use a taser (responsibly) "pussyass cops".

If the situation escalated to the point that a taser were to be needed, I'm sure he would choose it. But, this thread isn't about such situations, it's about unnecessary use of the taser and that in the last 5 years there have been more than 200 deaths associated with the use of the taser.

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Yes, I did fill out and sign a release when I volunteered to be tasered. It warned of several possible side effects but also stated those side effects were suspected but not proven to have been caused by the interaction of the taser with a preexisting condition.

And if something would had happened to you, such as it did with the officer in the Jane's article, you would had been shit out of luck as you chose to be tasered. 200+ dead people within 5 years would argue (if they could) that Taser International is not disclosing the truth. The release you signed only protects Taser and not the person being tased.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 3,107]

>It would be interesting to see how a court case would be resolved
>if a person acted as you mentioned and shot a cop because the cop
>went for his taser, and then tried to justify his actions in court by saying
>he has a condition that is known to put him at more risk than the average
>person when tasered...yet has no data to back it up.

Well, he doesn't need data to back it up. If his doctor tells him "you have a weak heart; avoid stress and shocks because they could cause a fatal arrhythmia" and he sees a cop pull out his taser - AND this police force is known for using tasers at the drop of a hat to calm people down - then he has a reasonable expectation that he will be tased, and from the best source he has (his doctor) he might reasonably expect to die.

It is best, of course, to avoid such situations altogether. People can do this by acting reasonably with police officers, and police can do this by not tasering people to "calm them down."

[skycop 0]

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the situation did not seem to warrant police presence.

A histerical woman, dropping the f-bomb several times loudly in a crowded store doesn't warrant a police presence? I go to those type calls on a fairly regular basis. The officer evidently just happened to be there and was requested to intervene by an employee. And she apparently kept dropping the f-bomb and other things once the officer showed up. According to the posted article she was told to settle down several times and refused, causing a crowd to gather, annoyance and alarm to other customers and staff. That is disorderly conduct by the numbers, not a free speech issue.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[shropshire 0]

If the police turned up every time someone shouted F*ck, there'd be a squad of armed cops in every pub in England and bar in the US of A too, I wouldn't wonder, every night of the week.

Pity they dont' turn up to every house break-In or car theft

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

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If the police turned up every time someone shouted F*ck, there'd be a squad of armed cops in every pub in England and bar in the US of A too, I wouldn't wonder, every night of the week.

Pity they dont' turn up to every house break-In or car theft

I get the feeling that if the "christian" right wing had their way.. it would be a jailable offence.... like many other things they seek to legislate to control other peoples lives.
You just HAVE to protect those sinners from themselves ya know.

[skycop 0]

Sure,
Bars, nightclubs, locker rooms etc. the f-bomb is no big deal.
A Best Buy during the Christmas holiday shopping season is disorderly conduct.
I arrested a guy for the same thing at a Long John Silvers, he was pissed because his extra-crispy fish wasn't crispy enough. I told him to chill, he didn't and THOUGHT he could say whatever he wanted. I got a round of applause when I cuffed this guy

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[shropshire 0]

Sorry, but there seems to be a priority issue here. If that's the bigest problems that our police services have to solve, then great... but they really are not are they?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[normiss 891]

It's been found to be protected speech under the 1st amendment in similar cases in the past.
Cussing out a cop is not grounds for arrest OR tasering.
You guys need thicker skin. A little less ego would be nice too.

[skycop 0]

If that speech is being done for a legitimate reason, being mad at a store employee during a disagreement is not one.
Causing a crowd to gather, alarm, annoyance inside a crowded store is disorderly conduct.
Many people think they can say and do whatever they want, not the case.

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You guys need thicker skin. A little less ego would be nice too.

You have no idea how much shit LEO's put up with, my skin is very thick and calloused from many years of dealing with this stuff.
Police work is one of the jobs where many people THINK they know what actually goes on and how to do the job. "Well I would just do this, or this......." , judging from what I read in here. I suggest anyone who thinks that way should just go ahead and join up! Then after a couple years come talk to me....

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[KelliJ 0]

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>It would be interesting to see how a court case would be resolved
>if a person acted as you mentioned and shot a cop because the cop
>went for his taser, and then tried to justify his actions in court by saying
>he has a condition that is known to put him at more risk than the average
>person when tasered...yet has no data to back it up.

Well, he doesn't need data to back it up. If his doctor tells him "you have a weak heart; avoid stress and shocks because they could cause a fatal arrhythmia" and he sees a cop pull out his taser - AND this police force is known for using tasers at the drop of a hat to calm people down - then he has a reasonable expectation that he will be tased, and from the best source he has (his doctor) he might reasonably expect to die.

It is best, of course, to avoid such situations altogether. People can do this by acting reasonably with police officers, and police can do this by not tasering people to "calm them down."

It still seems to me that it is quite a stretch to claim justifiable homicide because a cop reaches for his taser and you are afraid he might use it. I have an aversion to dog bites. Does that mean if a cop comes near me with a dog i can shoot the dog because I'm afraid of being bit?
But then, I'm not a lawyer so I could very well be wrong.

Yes, it is best to avoid the situation altogether. But, in the real world, there are those who will always throw a tantrum when they can't have their way and there will always be cops and others who are a bit quick to tase.

[KelliJ 0]

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But, this thread isn't about such situations, it's about supposed unnecessary use of the taser and that in the last 5 years there have been more than 200 deaths associated with the use of the taser.

Fixed it for ya!

The rest of your post didn't tell me anything i wasn't already aware of when I signed up to get zapped. Whether or not TI is hiding the truth has yet to be proven.

[KelliJ 0]

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It's been found to be protected speech under the 1st amendment in similar cases in the past.
Cussing out a cop is not grounds for arrest OR tasering.
You guys need thicker skin. A little less ego would be nice too.

Sorry, pardner, but cussing out a cop is grounds for getting arrested. Same goes for giving them the bird.

[ExAFO 0]

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But then, I'm not a lawyer so I could very well be wrong.

Nor are the most vocal of posters regarding firearms/tasers, but they all think they're Johnnie Cochran or Hugo Black..


It's amusing to see how some people think their degrees in completely irrelevant fields somehow enables them to speak with any competence on American jurisprudence. An Attorney fresh out of Law school is not an expert in physics/engineering/comp sci. That flipside of that logic does not seem to stop those with degrees in those disciplines from presenting themselves as qualified to express authoritative conclusions of law.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[normiss 891]

I think I'll side with the courts that have said otherwise.
Yelling, cussing or otherwise "disrespecting" a cop is free speech and has been defended as such.
Nothing violent at all about free expression.
I'm not your "pardner".

[Gawain 0]

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Sorry, pardner, but cussing out a cop is grounds for getting arrested. Same goes for giving them the bird.

Maybe in your secret police state where you live -- But in the United States, cussing at or flipping the bird to the police is not subject to arrest.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ExAFO 0]

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Sorry, pardner, but cussing out a cop is grounds for getting arrested. Same goes for giving them the bird.

Maybe in your secret police state where you live -- But in the United States, cussing at or flipping the bird to the police is not subject to arrest.

(not directed at you personally)

It would seem that you are mistaken, given the wording of Disorderly Conduct statutes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorderly_conduct


Is it worth the $ for a 1st Amd challenge to try to overturn a conviction that could have been avoided by not acting like a prick in the first place?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Sure,
Bars, nightclubs, locker rooms etc. the f-bomb is no big deal.
A Best Buy during the Christmas holiday shopping season is disorderly conduct.
I arrested a guy for the same thing at a Long John Silvers, he was pissed because his extra-crispy fish wasn't crispy enough. I told him to chill, he didn't and THOUGHT he could say whatever he wanted. I got a round of applause when I cuffed this guy

You are real crimestopper, they gonna give you an award now?

[normiss 891]

UM v. Indiana
and
Michigan Court of Appeals rules 1897 statute barring use of vulgar language in front of women, children is unconstitutional. Case stems from an arrest of an individual cursing at a cop.
and
West Virginia:
"The U.S. Supreme Court has made it abundantly clear that individuals have a right to question police officers, even if police officers find the speech that they use to be offensive. Police officers don't have the right to be censors," Jason Huber

that's my first pass at finding legal precedence for cases based on cussing at cops. Yes, there are cases that have gone the other way, at least in state courts although the Supreme Court tends to lend towards the free speech argument so long as violence or "fighting words" are not present in the case.

Typically, cops tend to use "disorderly conduct" in response.
Last time I was talked to BY a cop cussing at ME with repeated F bombs - I was threatened with arrest for challenging his approach. We can't win so long as they are "trusted" or believed against the public in MOST cases.

[skycop 0]

Hey,
I was called there, this dude was acting like dickhead for a while considering they had to call, I had to get there. Once I arrived he decided to make a 1st Amendment challenge with his hush puppies, he lost.
What a way to make a living.......

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 891]

no crowd "gathered" in this case for that matter...they KNOW BETTER than to risk arrest these days...in Florida even more so.
being mad at a store employee or anyone for that matter is not a police matter...until it becomes violent.

[normiss 891]

How did it pan out in front of a judge?

[KelliJ 0]

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Sorry, pardner, but cussing out a cop is grounds for getting arrested. Same goes for giving them the bird.

Maybe in your secret police state where you live -- But in the United States, cussing at or flipping the bird to the police is not subject to arrest.

Texas must be one of those secret police states even though i don't live there.
www.legaltips.org/texas/PE/pe.009.00.000042.00.aspx

[normiss 891]

and that law has been ruled against...even in fairly violent DWI arrest case of The State of Texas v. DH Misdemeanor DWI - defendant was acquitted of all charges.

[Gawain 0]

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Sorry, pardner, but cussing out a cop is grounds for getting arrested. Same goes for giving them the bird.

Maybe in your secret police state where you live -- But in the United States, cussing at or flipping the bird to the police is not subject to arrest.

(not directed at you personally)

It would seem that you are mistaken, given the wording of Disorderly Conduct statutes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorderly_conduct

Is it worth the $ for a 1st Amd challenge to try to overturn a conviction that could have been avoided by not acting like a prick in the first place?

I don't dispute your final point, citing your source though is not conclusive. No where does it say that it's iron-clad disorderly conduct by yelling at a cop (unless instructed not to do so, but even then it's not 100%).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!