It's getting out of hand!

[KelliJ 0]

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Would you justify shooting a cop because he pulled out his night stick?

If I did nothing and was about to be clubbed? Hell yes. But I doubt that will ever happen to me.

And I've seen maybe 3 mounted police in my life, and all of them were when I was travelling.

So-let me see if i got this right-if a cop pulled his night stick and was about to hit you with it you would pull out a gun and shoot him? But you don't feel a cop should be able to taser someone who is refusing to settle down and continues to act irrationally and unpredictably? What makes your safety worth taking a cops life, but a cop's safety, and that of others around, isn't worth tasering an irate and uncooperative woman? After all, the chances of her being killed by the taser are extremely remote yet if you shoot someone they stand a very real chance of dying.

[normiss 871]

If you honestly think that woman was that sort of a threat to everyone around her, we have some MAJOR issues with law enforcement in this country.
Not that we don't for a myriad of other reasons...but OMFG you have GOT to be kidding me!!!!!

[KelliJ 0]

Hmmmmm....trying to weasel your way out of something you said?
So, what would you do...shoot him in his little pinkie toe? Or, maybe, just shoot his hat off?
Let me give you some advice, little boy.
If you ever pull out a gun in self defense you had better be damn good and ready to use it and by that I mean shoot to STOP. Unfortunately shooting to stop means shooting at center torso which quite often leads to death. If you aren't prepared to take the life of the person you are trying to stop then don't even carry.
Now you can go back to fantasizing about shooting unarmed cops in the park in front of their kids.

[normiss 871]

wow
you're tough
you must be a cop with a big gun and a badge

[KelliJ 0]

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If you honestly think that woman was that sort of a threat to everyone around her, we have some MAJOR issues with law enforcement in this country.
Not that we don't for a myriad of other reasons...but OMFG you have GOT to be kidding me!!!!!

Like I have been saying all along, I don't know if she was or wasn't....not enough info.
If you, on the other hand, can tell what was being said and what she was yelling then, by all means, share it so we can all be better informed!

[KelliJ 0]

Nope, sorry to disappoint you.

[normiss 871]

I'm not going to do your research for you.
You obviously have the same tools in front of you the rest of us do.
Other reports have talked to witnesses, these witnesses do not support the cop's version of things.
She was being arrested for using her own credit card simply because she stepped away from the counter.
Another case of a cop that doesn't want to hear anything from a citizen. You're going to jail is all she she had in her mind.
and the taser.

[billvon 3,090]

>Which means you better draw and shoot the instant the cops hand goes
>to toward the taser.

Right.

>But, if you do that, you are no longer protecting yourself against an
>imminent threat and are shooting a peace officer merely because they
>were preparing to deal with a situation in case it got out of hand.

If it is common practice to tase people to "calm them down", and you are upset - then it is to be expected that a cop would tase you after he reached for his taser. And in that case, you could reasonably expect to suffer serious injury or death if he manages to draw his taser - so firing first would be justified.

Which is why tasering people to 'calm them down' is such an incredibly bad idea from the cop's point of view. It gives people a justifiable reason to kill them.

[KelliJ 0]

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>Which means you better draw and shoot the instant the cops hand goes
>to toward the taser.

Right.

>But, if you do that, you are no longer protecting yourself against an
>imminent threat and are shooting a peace officer merely because they
>were preparing to deal with a situation in case it got out of hand.

If it is common practice to tase people to "calm them down", and you are upset - then it is to be expected that a cop would tase you after he reached for his taser. And in that case, you could reasonably expect to suffer serious injury or death if he manages to draw his taser - so firing first would be justified.

Which is why tasering people to 'calm them down' is such an incredibly bad idea from the cop's point of view. It gives people a justifiable reason to kill them.

I think you would have an incredibly hard time convincing a judge and/or jury that you were justified in shooting a cop because they reached for their taser.
Are you willing to bet spending the rest of your life in prison that you are correct?

[KelliJ 0]

I didn't ask you to do any research for me, merely to post for all to see what you are basing your claims on.

[ExAFO 0]

It seems some of those on this thread have been reading too many Black Panther Party pamphlets whilst listening to Rage Against the Machine and shooting methamphetamine.

DotCom Rambos strike again...

P.S. The legal theories that some have posted are so flawed it's amazing. A degree in anything other than law does not qualify one to be an authority on law.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[n23x 0]

It would also appear that some of the law enforcement types on this thread have been so busy jerking off to Platoon, Paths of Glory and Apocalypse Now that they can't help protect their friends, regardless of right and wrong.

Cops protecting cops instead of the general public strike again...

Wow, that was easy!

Do YOU think the officer in this situation responded correctly?

.jim

Edited to add: A position in law enforcement doesn't give one the right to abuse their powers. Further, those people shouldn't expect or deserve to be protected when they abuse that power.

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[shermanator 4]

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>The police officer said she used the taser to calm the irate and upset
>woman down.

Perhaps we're getting a little too taser happy here.

"Hey, Sarge, I gotta woman who got mugged who's _really_ upset!"

"Well, calm her down."

I actually want to do that.. just to see what it is like.

You've got the wrong culture there, Bill. That would only happen in Saudi to a woman who had been raped.

I feel all Americans should step up to the plate and be practice-Tasered. Then when/if it happens for real, it won't be such a shock.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[shermanator 4]

In regards to showing ID. ... if the card is signed on teh back, You do NOT have to provide a photo ID with it. When I worked at disneyland resort we used to check id, until ONE gues freaked, called the credit card company, who then contacted disney... policy was changed and we no longer were allowed to check ID. we were told NOT TO, as stated by the card companies. So, as long as it is signed on back, no id required. scary stuff.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[billvon 3,090]

>I think you would have an incredibly hard time convincing a judge and/or
>jury that you were justified in shooting a cop because they reached for
>their taser.

True. But being able to prove that tasering was both fatal for people with your condition, and was a common method used to "calm people down" in that police force, would go a long way towards being able to justify it. Which is why it's such a bad idea to _make_ it a common method.

>Are you willing to bet spending the rest of your life in prison that you
>are correct?

If my alternative was death by taser? Yes, I would risk it. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

[Gawain 0]

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If my alternative was death by taser? Yes, I would risk it. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

We don't agree on much, but dang, when we do...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[DSE 5]

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Would you justify shooting a cop because he pulled out his night stick?

If I did nothing and was about to be clubbed? Hell yes. But I doubt that will ever happen to me.

And I've seen maybe 3 mounted police in my life, and all of them were when I was travelling.

So-let me see if i got this right-if a cop pulled his night stick and was about to hit you with it you would pull out a gun and shoot him? But you don't feel a cop should be able to taser someone who is refusing to settle down and continues to act irrationally and unpredictably? What makes your safety worth taking a cops life, but a cop's safety, and that of others around, isn't worth tasering an irate and uncooperative woman? After all, the chances of her being killed by the taser are extremely remote yet if you shoot someone they stand a very real chance of dying.

Behaving irrationally and unpredictably don't equal "unsafe" or "threat to public safety." Otherwise, we'd be seeing every skydiver and Harley-rider wanna-be as potential Taser victims.
That is one of the tenets officers follow prior to drawing a weapon.
Officers DON'T possess the right to use a taser to "calm someone down." A taser is an escalation of force, not a de-escalation of force.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Apparently on another website, one of the members is a local to this area and got this info fro the news:

"She was in the middle of the buy when she got the info about her kid; the sale had occurred and all she had to do was sign for it. She was upset about the call and walked out of the BB to talk more in private and away from the noise inside. The BB employee thinks its suspicious and notifes police. Officer shows up, customer comes back in to close deal and the rest is on fim. they hadn't asked her to leave and the card wasn't flagged. Just suspicious behavior from employee's perspective."

[KelliJ 0]

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>I think you would have an incredibly hard time convincing a judge and/or
>jury that you were justified in shooting a cop because they reached for
>their taser.

True. But being able to prove that tasering was both fatal for people with your condition, and was a common method used to "calm people down" in that police force, would go a long way towards being able to justify it. Which is why it's such a bad idea to _make_ it a common method.

>Are you willing to bet spending the rest of your life in prison that you
>are correct?

If my alternative was death by taser? Yes, I would risk it. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

What conditions have been known to be fatal if tasered?

[KelliJ 0]

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Behaving irrationally and unpredictably don't equal "unsafe" or "threat to public safety."

That all depends on the situation and is a judgement call for the responding officers to make.
Did the cop in this situation make a bad judgement? I don't know. I wasn't there and don't have even a majority of the information concerning what happened.

[normiss 871]

and it appears you're not even willing to look for any of that info, so what's the point?

[freethefly 6]

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>I think you would have an incredibly hard time convincing a judge and/or
>jury that you were justified in shooting a cop because they reached for
>their taser.

True. But being able to prove that tasering was both fatal for people with your condition, and was a common method used to "calm people down" in that police force, would go a long way towards being able to justify it. Which is why it's such a bad idea to _make_ it a common method.

>Are you willing to bet spending the rest of your life in prison that you
>are correct?

If my alternative was death by taser? Yes, I would risk it. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

What conditions have been known to be fatal if tasered?

I am almost sure that you will not read this article but believe others will. If by chance you are ever tasered, I'll just laugh and laugh and laugh.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/44455/
From the article;
Although the company spins it otherwise, Taser-associated deaths are definitely on the rise. In 2001, Amnesty International documented three Taser-associated deaths. The number has steadily increased each year, peaking at 61 in 2005. So far almost 50 deaths have occurred in 2006, for an approximate total of 200 deaths in the last five years.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[KelliJ 0]

First off, if you had actually read the posts in this thread and not just jumped in you would know that I have been tased.
Second, I did go to the link and read the article, even though the first sentence forewarned of it's biased nature.
It made some interesting points but my question remains...what conditions can be fatal if tasered?
I know the article mentioned a couple, but I am sure there are more, right?

[skycop 0]

There are a couple of "if's" here.

If the officer was using the taser to "calm down" the woman, that is an absolute misuse of force and I'm sure a violation of policy.

If the officer was in the process of making an arrest then the taser use would likely be within policy. Like the chief said, if the taser was used to prevent a physical take down then that fits. Many in here don't like that but sometimes the truth hurts.
I don't have much faith in media accounts, we'll see how the court case shakes out.
Some of the comments in this thread have been amazing, I've debated this ad nausem.
It's not about control (okay maybe a little bit) it's more about a lack of civility. The whole situation could have been avoided if this woman showed some sense in the beginning.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[KelliJ 0]

Since you won't post the information you claim to have or even a link to it I'll just assume you have no information concerning the incident than what is mentioned in this thread.
For me to go web surfing and digging up information would not mean much if you and I base our opinions on different sources, now would it?