It's getting out of hand!

[billvon 3,107]

>What conditions have been known to be fatal if tasered?

Heart disease. The British government recently came out with a warning stating that tasers are especially dangerous to people with heart disease.

[skycop 0]

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The British government recently came out with a warning stating that tasers are especially dangerous to people with heart disease.

I can say with some confidence that fighting with the police can be dangerous as well, but that would be common sense which many people lack.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[KelliJ 0]

I haven't been posting in this forum for very long, but I learned quickly that there are some regulars here that think anything a cop does is wrong. They feel people have the right to do whatever they want, when they want, and where they want. Any consequences of these actions are then labeled unjust.

[KelliJ 0]

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>What conditions have been known to be fatal if tasered?

Heart disease. The British government recently came out with a warning stating that tasers are especially dangerous to people with heart disease.

Ok, good. At least one person here can answer a simple question.
Now, concerning heart disease and tasers....What are the chances of someone with heart disease dying from a taser compared to that of a otherwise healthy person under the same circumstances? No guessing, please, just hard facts.

[billvon 3,107]

>What are the chances of someone with heart disease dying from a
>taser compared to that of a otherwise healthy person under the same
>circumstances? No guessing, please, just hard facts.

There _are_ no hard facts. Indeed, other than seeing people die from taser use, and thus having anecdotal evidence, there's very little hard evidence at all. No one has bothered to do the research. From a recent article from the Seattle P-I:

===================
The Air Force Research Laboratory, which conducted the DoD study, released a statement last week saying the devices could be dangerous in certain circumstances and that there wasn't enough data to evaluate it. The need to rely on case reports from the manufacturer and the lack of laboratory data "generate uncertainty in the results," the report said.

"There's a huge gap in the scientific data that has been performed," said Larry Farlow, a spokesman with the Air Force Research Laboratory at Brooks City-Base in San Antonio.
===================

[warpedskydiver 0]

The whole situation could have been avoided of this woman showed some sense in the beginning.

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That would be true of the Woman and the officer as well.

Violence or a threat of violence is a last resort.

If an officer thinks someone may become violent, a threat of violence against that person will make it a reality.

As soon as anyone threatens, the reaction they wanted to avoid(if the cop wanted to avoid violence) will occur.


Some people are highly trained, and do not take lightly to being subjected to physical violence.

A case in point is that a long time ago my own uncle was a detective working for a local city.

They had served a warrant, and as a precaution they put the suspects husband in the paddy wagon.(very large man)

The woman was being charged with passing bad checks.

The woman was being cuffed and started complaining that she was not guilty, and that the bank had made a gross mistake.

When the officer cuffing her pushed her face first into the pavement. (in order to subdue her, although she was not physically resisting) her hubby tore the doors off of the paddy wagon, got out and beat the living shit out of three cops before he was shot in the abdomen.

The hubby then removed the weapon from the cops hands and threw it into the bushes.

My uncle successfully got the guy to stop by merely saying that what the cop did was wrong, and would be dealt with severly.

The guy unfortunately died in the hospital from infection.

The woman charged was found not guilty, and in fact the bank had mistakenly trasferred the funds from her account to the wrong persons account.

Total three cops hospitalized, one innocent man dead, and a woman with her face fucked up over nothing.

This occured in the late 1960s

[freethefly 6]

I have read every post but forgot that you have been tased. But, you were tased in a controlled situation. Did you have to fill out a questonaire pertaining to possible health conditions that may be fatal if tased? I watched the video of my nephew being tased. He is a 300 pound plus, muscle head cop in the KC area. The guy barely flinched (infact, he stood there and smiled at the camera). (Awhile back I posted an article on him making the largest cocaine bust ever in the Lenexa Ks. area.) I've asked Ryan ( acouple of years back) if he ever had to use his taser and he just made a muscle and pointed at it and said "with arms like these, I don't need to". He also said that the taser is for "pussyass cops who don't know shit about controlling a situation".

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[normiss 891]

I'll never understand the empirical rights to arrest that cops seem to have.
It seems given the local reports (multiple TV stations, multiple newspapers, police interviews, interviews with witnesses at the store) that the woman was being arrested for simply walking away from the counter. It's getting to the point where cops do not talk to people but simply process them.
This is a HUGE misunderstanding that led to a very heavy handed arrest that will now cost this woman thousands to sort out. For simply stepping away from the counter in consideration of others for a cell phone call.

The cop COULD have sorted the whole thing out with a few words, instead she chose to arrest, without even listening to the woman.
I'd have been pretty upset too...step away to take a phone call ... return to be greeted with arrest. The rest of you would simply surrender to a cop in a similar situation? Any clue how much the process costs?????

[shropshire 0]

If a cop never asks what conditions a person has before tasering, it really doesn't matter what conditons can proove fatal, now does it?

Also, considering people have died when Tasered, this device should be considered as a lethal weapon and only used in the cases where people are in real danger from an assult.

The subject of the original post in this thread is NOT such a case. from what I saw and read.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[KelliJ 0]

Quote

I have read every post but forgot that you have been tased. But, you were tased in a controlled situation. Did you have to fill out a questonaire pertaining to possible health conditions that may be fatal if tased? I watched the video of my nephew being tased. He is a 300 pound plus, muscle head cop in the KC area. The guy barely flinched (infact, he stood there and smiled at the camera). (Awhile back I posted an article on him making the largest cocaine bust ever in the Lenexa Ks. area.) I've asked Ryan ( acouple of years back) if he ever had to use his taser and he just made a muscle and pointed at it and said "with arms like these, I don't need to". He also said that the taser is for "pussyass cops who don't know shit about controlling a situation".

Sorry, but your nephew is wrong and has a very poor attitude. Tasers are not just for "pussyass cops", they are for officers to use when they feel the situation cannot be resolved peacefully yet does not warrant the use of a firearm.
Not every cop weighs 300 lbs and is able to subdue perps by overpowering them. Likewise, any cop who feels he can always overpower a suspect will eventually find out he is wrong. I hope, when your nephew discovers he isn't as tough as he thinks he is, that he will not be seriously harmed.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Likewise it will be a good thing when cops stop using lethal force because they are scared, and have not been assaulted.

[KelliJ 0]

Quote

>What are the chances of someone with heart disease dying from a
>taser compared to that of a otherwise healthy person under the same
>circumstances? No guessing, please, just hard facts.

There _are_ no hard facts. Indeed, other than seeing people die from taser use, and thus having anecdotal evidence, there's very little hard evidence at all. No one has bothered to do the research. From a recent article from the Seattle P-I:

===================
The Air Force Research Laboratory, which conducted the DoD study, released a statement last week saying the devices could be dangerous in certain circumstances and that there wasn't enough data to evaluate it. The need to rely on case reports from the manufacturer and the lack of laboratory data "generate uncertainty in the results," the report said.

"There's a huge gap in the scientific data that has been performed," said Larry Farlow, a spokesman with the Air Force Research Laboratory at Brooks City-Base in San Antonio.
===================

It would be interesting to see how a court case would be resolved if a person acted as you mentioned and shot a cop because the cop went for his taser, and then tried to justify his actions in court by saying he has a condition that is known to put him at more risk than the average person when tasered...yet has no data to back it up.
I'm surprised to see you making claims here that cannot be substantiated with evidence other than supposition.

[KelliJ 0]

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Likewise it will be a good thing when cops stop using lethal force because they are scared, and have not been assaulted.

We agree on that.
I would still much rather be tasered than shot. At least cops have the choice until something better comes along.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

I have read every post but forgot that you have been tased. But, you were tased in a controlled situation. Did you have to fill out a questonaire pertaining to possible health conditions that may be fatal if tased? I watched the video of my nephew being tased. He is a 300 pound plus, muscle head cop in the KC area. The guy barely flinched (infact, he stood there and smiled at the camera). (Awhile back I posted an article on him making the largest cocaine bust ever in the Lenexa Ks. area.) I've asked Ryan ( acouple of years back) if he ever had to use his taser and he just made a muscle and pointed at it and said "with arms like these, I don't need to". He also said that the taser is for "pussyass cops who don't know shit about controlling a situation".

Sorry, but your nephew is wrong and has a very poor attitude. Tasers are not just for "pussyass cops", they are for officers to use when they feel the situation cannot be resolved peacefully yet does not warrant the use of a firearm.
Not every cop weighs 300 lbs and is able to subdue perps by overpowering them. Likewise, any cop who feels he can always overpower a suspect will eventually find out he is wrong. I hope, when your nephew discovers he isn't as tough as he thinks he is, that he will not be seriously harmed.

Think what you will. I think Ryan has a great attitude for being a cop. I've wathed hundreds of his videos from his dash cam. Ryan is always courteous. He is always calm. But, Ryan has the advantage of being over 6' 5" and weighing over 300 pounds. In my opinion, he is one of the good cops who uses reason over going to the taser first. In the case of the Best Buy woman being tasered, I believe Ryan would had calmly resolved the situation and been back out on the street looking for real criminals. This cop in the video has no business being a cop. Besides cops did just fine before the taser came about when talking a person down usually rsolved a situation. Now, some asshole cops feel that it is their right to use a taser for any reason whatsoever.

Oh, and you did not answer my question about you being tased in a controlled situation. Did you have to fill out a questionnaire on possible health conditions that may be fatal (or injurouse, I'm adding to the question) if tased?

Here's an article at Jane's of a demo inwhich the demonstrator was severly injured. The injured was a cop!
http://www.janes.com/news/lawenforcement/pr/pr071011_1_n.shtml

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skycop 0]

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It seems given the local reports (multiple TV stations, multiple newspapers, police interviews, interviews with witnesses at the store) that the woman was being arrested for simply walking away from the counter. It's getting to the point where cops do not talk to people but simply process them.

Were you there? I must have missed the audio portion of the video, you've already started drawing conclusions.

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The cop COULD have sorted the whole thing out with a few words, instead she chose to arrest, without even listening to the woman.

Again, how do you know she didn't listen? The officer could have done many things, again we'll see how the case shakes out.

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The rest of you would simply surrender to a cop in a similar situation?

This womans actions drew the attention of the officer, I'm assuming the officer was working an off-duty detail at the store, but that is just a guess.
It's not a question of surrender, it's a question of control. The officer is a walking, talking consequence. When a situation requires police intervention there is already a certain lack of control to the situation, or else the police would'nt be there. When the police arrive I can almost guarantee they will take control of the situation, not because they dig taking control, it's how they go home at night. Right, wrong or indifferent if this woman would have chilled out, followed directions she probally would have gone home with an apology from the store and a free gift card or something. Instead she apparently continued to rant and rave causing a scene, these things don't happen in a vacuum.
My wife is a general manager for a large department store, she says the lack of civility of some people is shocking, over very trivial things. When the cops show up the situation is no longer trivial.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

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with arms like these, I don't need to". He also said that the taser is for "pussyass cops who don't know shit about controlling a situation".

Aren't these the type of cops you and many in here are constantly complaining about?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

with arms like these, I don't need to". He also said that the taser is for "pussyass cops who don't know shit about controlling a situation".

Aren't these the type of cops you and many in here are constantly complaining about?

I've very seldom complained about cops. I complained about the cop who wanted to search my El camino after being pulled over for 5mph over the limit. They brought dogs and wasted a few hours of their time and the taxpayers money for nothing after I refuse him to search. I also commend some cops such as Detective Fellows of the San Diego police dept..
I've watched Ryans videos and saw him easily subdue a person getting violent. Listening to the audio, he never raises his voice. He stays extremely calm and soft spoken. I never seen him slam someone to the ground or against the car. He makes a few quick (he's 1st degree black belt and has been training in the martial arts since around age 5) moves and they are held immobile and cuffed. If I do complain it is only about cops who go beyond the scope of reasonable force. Ryans size and easy demeanor does the trick. The majority of cops I have come across ( I know quite a few of them) are pretty good people. The few who were total assholes, I have no respect for. If I am pulled over for speeding, give me a ticket and it's fine. He/she is only doing their job of enforcing the traffic law. If I am pulled over for speeding, I am offended by being asked if my car can be searched and then held for dogs when I refuse to be searched. I am offended when I am taken from my vehicle and cuffed for no reason. I am offended when berated by a cop. I am offended when asked questions that do not pertain to the offense. You know as well as everyone else that some cops have no business being a cop.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skycop 0]

Well heck,
Question asked and answered! I wish it was always that easy in here
I agree with everything you said.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 891]

This one will be interesting either way.
My money is on the SA dropping charges...to be followed by a lawsuit for unlawful arrest at the least.
Daytona News Journal

What drew the attention of the officer was the request of the sales clerk. The cop was in the store on another matter.
It's generally seen as guilty until proven otherwise...of course you will call that "tell it to the judge".

[shropshire 0]

<>

Are you sure? 100% of the times?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[skycop 0]

I'll never say never, or 100% things seldom are.
But, I've been in the middle of HUNDREDS of situations where control was an issue until we arrived. The vast majority of situations require immediate attention, i.e. control. Once control is established then the situation is on it's way to being solved. Even very minor situations can spiral out of control, I've seen it happen. If we let the situation get out of control then we get blamed for that, the classic catch-22.
I'm sure this lady is probably a decent person who got caught up in big misunderstanding. With that said her actions led to her arrest, I addressed that earlier. Could this have been handled better, sure, monday morning quaterbacking is always easy.
I do give cudos to the police chief for backing his officer, many chiefs will throw an officer under the bus when things like this get dicey.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

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My money is on the SA dropping charges...to be followed by a lawsuit for unlawful arrest at the least.
Daytona News Journal

Nah, I say they tee-it-up, if they don't then the SA is a political hack.

I read the article, please excuse me for not putting alot of confidence in the ACLU or Amnesty International.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[shropshire 0]

I sort of understand where you're coming from but with the information that we have been presented with, the situation did not seem to warrant police presence.


As for the chief, if it turns out that he is backing up bad policeing, that could back-fire.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[KelliJ 0]

A great attitude in general, maybe. I don't know since I've never met him. But his attitude toward wanting to physically take down any and all who resist instead of using the tools available-including tasers-will most likely end up with him getting hurt someday. He has no right calling others who do choose to use a taser (responsibly) "pussyass cops".

Yes, I did fill out and sign a release when I volunteered to be tasered. It warned of several possible side effects but also stated those side effects were suspected but not proven to have been caused by the interaction of the taser with a preexisting condition.

[normiss 891]

So to surmise, the 60-odd deaths resulting from tasing are "suspected, but have yet to be proven"?
How long ago were you tased?