The president signs new energy bill

[Gawain 0]

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It confirms who controls congress. Big Oil.

With a 600% increase in ethanol production it's not just "big oil".

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rushmc 23]

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It confirms who controls congress. Big Oil.

With a 600% increase in ethanol production it's not just "big oil".

And with this, at least in the short term, food prices will go up and food reserves (are already) go down

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Misternatural 0]

>>Food prices will go up and food reserves (are already) go down

Sheesh, Now who's engaging in establishment fear based hyperbole.

Relax, even the president said that non corn feedstock ethanol production will be the focus, lets have a little faith here in the government's foresight on this issue.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Opie 0]

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Quote

Quote

It confirms who controls congress. Big Oil.

With a 600% increase in ethanol production it's not just "big oil".

And with this, at least in the short term, food prices will go up and food reserves (are already) go down

So would you rather pay a little more for your steak or keep sending our youth into harms way in the sandbox. The ethanol goals in this bill are lofty to say the least and ethanol certainly isn't the cure all for our energy problems but supporting increased domestic production of our energy needs is a step in the right direction. The U.S. has and will still have one of the cheapest food supplies relative to our avg. income in the world.

[Misternatural 0]

>>As far as I know, 21 years later, there are still no solar panels on the White House.


It could be next, it's a sign of the times, maybe Carter wasn't such a goober after all.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Amazon 7]

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So would you rather pay a little more for your steak or keep sending our youth into harms way in the sandbox

The members of the 101st Airborne Keyboard Detachment are having no problem sending our young off to foreign lands as long as they can sound all patriotic and macho from behind their keyboards.

[Gawain 0]

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Relax, even the president said that non corn feedstock ethanol production will be the focus, lets have a little faith here in the government's foresight on this issue.

You owe me a new keyboard for making me laugh while drinking my tea.

Ethanol production, coupled with the high gas prices has created yet-to-be-fully-realized huge increases in many basic staples of the food chain, primarily corn, and milk.

Ethanol as a sole fuel source is not viable while maintaining the agriculture system we have. Ethanol as a power booster, in tandem with gasoline holds more promise to reduce gasoline consumption and maintain mileage than as an E85 source.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

So would you rather pay a little more for your steak or keep sending our youth into harms way in the sandbox

The members of the 101st Airborne Keyboard Detachment are having no problem sending our young off to foreign lands as long as they can sound all patriotic and macho from behind their keyboards.

Wow, are you really talking about me? I don't know what's in the water up there, but goodness, stop drinking it.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

Max.... I got a nice big ladder for you to climb down off my back on this one....

You know all too well of whom I speak... all the keyboard warriors out there that support all these neat little wars... but would NEVER get involved in one... its far too safe behind their internet keyboards.

You support the war... YOU have been there and paid a high price for it... and would go back in a hearbeat... you are an honest warrior in that way
OH.. and last I checked.. didnt they take away your Unit designation..of AIRBORNE.. and make it AIRMOBILE

[Gawain 0]

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Max.... I got a nice big ladder for you to climb down off my back on this one....

The only reason I need a ladder is because you're taller than me, and then, it wouldn't be on your back. I'll happily say these things to your face.

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You know all too well of whom I speak... all the keyboard warriors out there that support all these neat little wars... but would NEVER get involved in one... its far too safe behind their internet keyboards.

If you want to refer to keyboard warriors that's one thing. However, you know what I speak of when I see it as you using those I've spilled blood with in reference to aid in besmirching someone else's character.

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You support the war...

We were talking about the Energy Bill, and components of it. Someone brings up the war and you bite hook-line-sinker. This bill will do nothing to affect US policy in the middle east, you know it.

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OH.. and last I checked.. didnt they take away your Unit designation..of AIRBORNE.. and make it AIRMOBILE

Well, we were Air Mobile during Vietnam if memory serves, we're now Air Assault. But former association with the XVIII Airborne Corps, and the fact that we still have Pathfinder units that are Airborne, I guess is what let's us keep it... Ol' Abe wouldn't look right without it.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,118]

>And with this, at least in the short term, food prices will go up and
>food reserves (are already) go down.

So we lessen our dependence on foreign oil and lose a few pounds in the process. High fructose corn syrup getting more expensive? Twinkies getting harder to come by? Sounds like a win/win situation.

[Amazon 7]

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If you want to refer to keyboard warriors that's one thing. However, you know what I speak of when I see it as you using those I've spilled blood with in reference to aid in besmirching someone else's character.

Chickenhawks have character

I think they lack honor

[Gawain 0]

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>And with this, at least in the short term, food prices will go up and
>food reserves (are already) go down.

So we lessen our dependence on foreign oil and lose a few pounds in the process. High fructose corn syrup getting more expensive? Twinkies getting harder to come by? Sounds like a win/win situation.

In that regard, you may be right...probably won't happen. But here in Kentucky, there was a time where we were paying $5.00/gallon. In Kentucky. Where we have a shit-ton of cows, beef and dairy and corn fields as far as the eye can see. It's down a bit now, but the increase was about $1.20 in less than a year, a higher rate than the increase in gas over the past 12 months.

In terms of the bigger topic, the bill, my initial reaction to it is that it does not really identify an "end state". Increase mileage 40%, increase ethanol production 600%, reintroduce incentives for hybrids, remove incentives for solar? The whole point of the hybrid tax incentives was to bring them mainstream. With hundreds of thousands of hybrids on the streets, that goal has been achieved. Solar, however, needs more fuel (to coin the phrase). I probably need to read more about pushing newer technologies, but I don't think I'll be impressed.

So, while I think some good will come from it, it doesn't ring consistent with the policies I remember coming from the President in years past.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lawrocket 3]

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>>As far as I know, 21 years later, there are still no solar panels on the White House.


It could be next, it's a sign of the times, maybe Carter wasn't such a goober after all.

Same thing could be said about the cat who did a BASE off of the Eiffel Tower 100 years ago. He became a crater, but was ahead of hsi time.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,118]

>my initial reaction to it is that it does not really identify an "end state".

I don't think there is one.

>Solar, however, needs more fuel (to coin the phrase).

I agree. It was one of those compromise bills where both sides needed to give and take, and the alternate-fuel folks had to give in on the solar incentives. Which means it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

One of the good-news/bad-news things about solar now is that Japan and Germany have pretty impressive incentives right now, and they are installing solar like crazy. Good news because everyone and their brother is building solar panels. When the no-names in China start cranking them out (which they're doing) you know the demand is way up there.

Bad news because with demand up, prices are up. From $4.00 a watt four years ago to $4.80 as of last month. It needs to be around $2.00 to be competitive with coal on a 10-15 year payback basis.

[rushmc 23]

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>>Food prices will go up and food reserves (are already) go down

Sheesh, Now who's engaging in establishment fear based hyperbole.

Relax, even the president said that non corn feedstock ethanol production will be the focus, lets have a little faith here in the government's foresight on this issue.

Come on, it is happening right now. There is already a lobby that this trying to reduce ethanol subsidies.

Now, the move is started toward non food ethanol production has started but corn is the main part right now.

Have you watched the price of corn over the last 2 years? How about the corresponding price of farm land? You have any idea? I doubt it

I am not against ethanol (it has made a huge difference in my dads retirement cash) but the investments out here has already dropped significantly. The food lobby has them scared and for good reason I think. Do you know what feeds the beef you eat?

So, before you post things like this, check things out.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Oh, and by the way, other than security, I trust the government for anything

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

It confirms who controls congress. Big Oil.

With a 600% increase in ethanol production it's not just "big oil".

And with this, at least in the short term, food prices will go up and food reserves (are already) go down

So would you rather pay a little more for your steak or keep sending our youth into harms way in the sandbox. The ethanol goals in this bill are lofty to say the least and ethanol certainly isn't the cure all for our energy problems but supporting increased domestic production of our energy needs is a step in the right direction. The U.S. has and will still have one of the cheapest food supplies relative to our avg. income in the world.

Bull shit post. No reply needed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Bull shit post. No reply needed

Uh... you replied

I could characterize a very high percentage of posts by a couple of right wing true believers here as just as much digital fecal matter

[rushmc 23]

Something else I just thought of........

If the ethanol moves to non food type production, and if the profits of those type supplies create a profit greater than corn or bean production, do you think the land will continue to produce corn and beans or move to something else.

Again, I am not against ethanol, but there are consequences to for every decision

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Misternatural 0]

You owe me a new keyboard for making me laugh while drinking my tea.

Hey It's the least I can do,

Your keyboard owes its existence to petroleum products, which is one of the reasons I choose to try to conserve oil, it is a fundamental building block for so many things in our every day life- most of us have no idea how petroleum affects us, it is after all a natural resource derived from ancient plants and animals and is simply a synthesis of SOLAR ENERGY I am not anti petroleum however I am a proponent of technological evolution- here's a short history of human accomplishments:

Stone age- bronze age- iron age- dark age/renaissance- industrial age- oil age- information age- and now we are entering the alternative energy age.

Finally after all of my bitching about politicians and their stagnant myopic partisan bullshit, the U.S government has made a monumental stride forward into the energy age, is it experimental? hell yeah! but some of the science behind it actually works.Will it have adverse economic impacts- maybe, but at least we're getting out heads out of our asses and getting bills passed which could mean something for a brighter future.

edited to add that I fucking forgot about the space age right up there with the age of aquarius.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Misternatural 0]

>>Do you know what feeds the beef you eat?

Ok now someone owes me a new keyboard cuz I think I laughed up part of a lung just now.

I choose to eat mostly wild game, besides have you heard of cellulosic ethanol? switchgrass? or Biodiesel made from algae? as far as I know these technologies don't infringe on feedlot meat sources.

yeah yeah I know it's all an experimental pipe dream...and they can never replace petroleum- They're not meant to fill the complete consumption equation by themselves. BUT all of these technologies put together can go a long way toward easing the pressure on foreign oil. that's the point, the bill is COMPREHENSIVE.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[rushmc 23]

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>>Do you know what feeds the beef you eat?

Ok now someone owes me a new keyboard cuz I think I laughed up part of a lung just now.

I choose to eat mostly wild game, besides have you heard of cellulosic ethanol? switchgrass? or Biodiesel made from algae? as far as I know these technologies don't infringe on feedlot meat sources.

yeah yeah I know it's all an experimental pipe dream...and they can never replace petroleum- They're not meant to fill the complete consumption equation by themselves. BUT all of these technologies put together can go a long way toward easing the pressure on foreign oil. that's the point, the bill is COMPREHENSIVE.

I do not understand why you have to do this

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Misternatural 0]

>>I do not understand why you have to do this

what, what am I doing, you mean ranting like a freeking nut bar and mixing in some facts?? isn't that what we do here?

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[rushmc 23]

what, what am I doing, you mean ranting like a freeking nut bar and mixing in some facts?? isn't that what we do here?