Why Ron Paul is lagging in the polls

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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>If Paul became president, things wouldn't change overnight, and he knows it.

Another thing that would happen is that the Libertarian party would be tempered by actual exposure to real world politics - and would rapidly morph into something a bit less extreme. Would benefit the party greatly I think.

Would it temper them or corrupt them and eventually morph them into what currently exists once they are in a position of power? The jaded side of me feels they will only remain pure while they have no control of anything. Paul is somewhat of an idealist and my biggest concern is that he would become quickly neutered by reality. Nonetheless, I still feel he is the best political option we have seen in many years.

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[dan_iv 0]

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Was he not living in "the real world?" Was he simply lying about realities? Or did he just give it his best shot - and through a combination of bad luck and a mistake or two, failed to achieve all of what he wanted?

bill, you're a fairly reasonable man. I know this because we've dealt with each other over the years on-line and in real life. I respect you because, well, you're also one of the most intelligent people I've ever met.

Knowing how intelligent you actually are, if I may ask you a question, bill, do you play the lottery?

I'm guessing here, but I'd say probably not because you have taken a certain amount of math in school and realize it is, after all extremely unlikely that you'd ever be able to win.

I look at Ron Paul in much the same way. Yeah, it's "fun" to think about never having to pay taxes again and reform the government. Sure, I get that. But I also think it's incredibly dishonest for him to even talk about it the way he has. He has to be either a Pied Piper leading people with his promises he never intends to keep or he has to be a complete and total wacko for thinking it actually can be done. He absolutely has to be one or the other; there is no third way. Certainly not by anything he's ever said in public.

People talk about his consistency of message not varying over the course of time. To me, in this case, that's not a good thing. He's spoken for 20 some odd years about this "plan" of his, without even mentioning that, "well, if elected I'll have to just work within the system and do what I can do." No. He's consistently talked about the abolishment of vast sections of the government, parts of which are sort of really required by the U.S. Constitution.

The guy is a nut job, has spouted the same crazy talk for years and is unwavering in his message. Sounds a lot like another President I can think of that also happened to come from Texas.

The only way to change the status quo is to actually do something about it. Sitting there pessimistically saying it's impossible to have any impact is pretty pathetic. I guess I'm a whacko for believing we could do some good with some change.

I think you have sufficiently answered the OP's question, you believe that he is lagging in the polls because you believe he is a nutcase.

[billvon 3,111]

>Would it temper them or corrupt them and eventually morph them
>into what currently exists once they are in a position of power?

Both, in a way. There's a level of corruption (call it favoritism, or "being faithful to your friends" or whatever you like) that is pretty much required to be successful in politics. That happens to _all_ politicians once they get to a certain level. The better ones are not any more corrupted by one side than by the other, and still make somewhat uninfluenced decisions.

It will also temper them. Their platform will (I suspect) shed the more unrealistic aspects and become more centrist. I understand the reasoning behind doing away with the IRS and the EPA, but neither will work in the real world.

[billvon 3,111]

>Knowing how intelligent you actually are . . .

That's a big assumption based on some people's reactions to my postings here!

>if I may ask you a question, bill, do you play the lottery?

A few times for fun (part of an office pool) but I don't expect it to be a paying proposition, if that's what you mean.

>He has to be either a Pied Piper leading people with his promises he
>never intends to keep or he has to be a complete and total wacko for
>thinking it actually can be done.

I don't think those are the only two choices. I think he's an idealist who really believes what he's saying, and who will partially fail when he tries to implement his policies in the real world. That doesn't make him a wacko in my book, any more than Gandhi was a wacko for thinking nonviolence always works, or Amory Lovins for thinking that conservation can solve all our problems.

Does nonviolence always solve problems? Is conservation the complete answer to energy shortages? Is libertarianism 100% practical as written? No to all three. But I don't think it's crazy to try to get any of those three to work.

[nanook 1]

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>If Paul became president, things wouldn't change overnight, and he knows it.

Another thing that would happen is that the Libertarian party would be tempered by actual exposure to real world politics - and would rapidly morph into something a bit less extreme. Would benefit the party greatly I think.

I can see two end results for this: as they temper, they completely change the Old Guard out and completely replace new people and have the same party with completely different people; or the original guard change themselves. I think you want the original people to be there.

I'm thinking maybe some experience with a few of them serving as state governors and doing a good job at it. That way a Presidency isn't a major expierment for them. It would force them to look at issues a senatorship doesn't have to. They can't ignore tax increase possibilities, property rights and govt programs/entities in their prospective states by not voting for/against them in this position. They may get a healthy respect for the why's certain entities/programs exists and make more informed theories. In time, like you said, they may be more tempered, with the basic beliefs still central.

I believe RP isn't the right answer now. He is low on the polls for many reasons, the major ones displayed in this thread. I guarantee my beliefs have nothing to do with the media's negative protrayal. I distrust the media since I've seen their product first-hand as a Skydiver and a member of the Armed Service. All my opinions were formed looking at his campaign sites, RP support sites and Lib.org.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[auburnguy 0]

Ron Paul is lagging in the polls because he is Ron Paul

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I'm thinking maybe some experience with a few of them serving as state governors

The last 7 years have proven that this is no guarantee of competence.

Speed Racer
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[nanook 1]

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I'm thinking maybe some experience with a few of them serving as state governors

The last 7 years have proven that this is no guarantee of competence.

You are right, it never proves competence. I'm not saying the expierence will prove a perfect (or mediocre) presidency. But for the sake of building a good party portfolio, a good plan of actions and milestones and patience can go a long way. Pretty soon, you may have a Lib president making decisions that pisses off the masses.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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But for the sake of building a good party portfolio,

That seems to be what the problem is with the current crop in power.... too much time partying as a legacy frat boy and WAY too much drinking, partying and cocaine frying the brain cells AFTER graduating as well.