South Asian Protesters block illegal immigrants deportation

[Richards 0]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=006fbb82-d36c-4b79-9ef8-9d91d93d1430&k=36929

Laibar Singh, an illegal immigrant who was facing a deportation hearing (at taxpayers expense) had a stroke and claimed after this that Canada had to keep him here on compassionate grounds. He was ordered deported but when his CBSA escorts took him to the airport they were blocked by about 2000 predominately Sikh protesters who physicall prevented them from taking him into the airport. His flight had to leave without him. The CBSA has now granted a stay of his deportation order.

I am quite unsetled by the implications of this. Now an ethnic community has the confidence to physically block the deportation of one of their community members and demand the government keeps him. What message does this send to others who wish to come here illegally? This is not the message I wanted us to send. He had a fair hearing (which in my opinion he did not deserve) and in acordance with our laws was ordered deported. Now the sikh community will physically block our government from doing it's job if it offends thier community? I think these people need to decide if they are Indians or Canadians. Currently it is clear that their loyalty lies with their countrymen first and Canada second.

Our government just sent the message that it can be bullied by ethnic communities.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Now an ethnic community has the confidence to physically block the deportation of one of their community members and demand the government keeps him. What message does this send to others who wish to come here illegally?

That decent white people would never behave like this. Damned...ethnics. Let them carry their towels in their luggage, like normal people, not on their heads. How fucked up is that?

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He had a fair hearing (which in my opinion he did not deserve)

Certainly not. Who needs bullshit like the rule of law, or courts, or evidence, or due process? People know the truth; that's all that matters.

Oh, and those Canadians on Juno and Gold beaches on June 6, 1944 - that was really pointless.

[Richards 0]

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Now an ethnic community has the confidence to physically block the deportation of one of their community members and demand the government keeps him. What message does this send to others who wish to come here illegally?

That decent white people would never behave like this. Damned...ethnics. Let them carry their towels in their luggage, like normal people, not on their heads. How fucked up is that?

Wow. Now that is a straw man argument if I ever heard one. You have needlessly spun my comment into an attack on ethnics which it was not. Nor have I stated that white people would never behave wrongly, but don't let the facts stop you from putting words in my mouth.

I have never agreed with pandering to special interest simply because the scream loud. Whether it is an ethnic community, a union, NRA or anti-gun lobby I expect our government to operate on principle instead of going "oh we don't want to loose the "goup-x" vote in the next election". I guess I expected too much of our government. I also expect all communities to respect the decisions of our courts even when they disagree with them. Peacefull protest is fine, disruption or blocking is wrong and should be illegal.

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He had a fair hearing (which in my opinion he did not deserve)

Certainly not. Who needs bullshit like the rule of law, or courts, or evidence, or due process? People know the truth; that's all that matters.

Our protective laws should apply to Canadian citizens, legal immigrants and those who declare refugee status the instant they arrive (not merely when they get busted for being here ilegally). If you are caught here illegally your remaining time in Canada should be about as long as it takes to drive you to the airport

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Oh, and those Canadians on Juno and Gold beaches on June 6, 1944 - that was really pointless.

I was not aware that they died so people could bully our government into submission and demand that Canadians lose the right to determine in accordance with our own laws who stays and who goes.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Wow. Now that is a straw man argument if I ever heard one. You have needlessly spun my comment into an attack on ethnics which it was not. Nor have I stated that white people would never behave wrongly, but don't let the facts stop you from putting words in my mouth.

Of course I spun up what you said. Welcome to the real world. But with all due respect, you brought it on yourself; and it wasn't "needless", it was done to make a point that I felt needed to be made: you let yourself give into the temptation to let an undercurrent of "soft bigotry" - or at the very least, ethnic xenophobia and resentment - creep into your address of the issue. It's the base side of human nature, and I fight it within myself, too; sometimes I really have to consciously force myself not to do it (like when there's an Asian driver doing 45 mph in the left lane of a freeway. God, why do they do that? But I digress.)

There are so many really good arguments out there about the need to get a handle on illegal immigration, ethnic resentment shouldn't be one of them, in my opinion. I know it pisses people off and makes them defensive when I call them on it, but it's how I feel about it. You're not the first, and I imagine you won't be the last.

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Our protective laws should apply to Canadian citizens, legal immigrants and those who declare refugee status the instant they arrive (not merely when they get busted for being here ilegally). If you are caught here illegally your remaining time in Canada should be about as long as it takes to drive you to the airport

Wrong!! Every citizen of every modern democratic nation (such as yours, for example) needs to understand how wrong this is. Without the rule of law, enacted by the people, and genuine due process in how that law is applied and enforced, our nations and their ideals are nothing.

I beg you: do not begrudge trials and hearings for those accused of wrongdoing - that is the proper way for a legitimate government to pronounce a person a wrongdoer, not by mere "declaration". That very process, even despite its expense and imperfections, only strengthens a democratic nation, it doesn't diminish it.

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I was not aware that they died so people could bully our government into submission and demand that Canadians lose the right to determine in accordance with our own laws who stays and who goes.

The brave Canadian heroes who fought & died, did so to allow each of us to have the nations we live in, where people can publicly petition the government for redress, even if by demonstrations. You see the news. The demonstrators in Burma and Pakistan were beaten and jailed. That doesn't happen in your nation, or in mine. You and I are blessed to live in two of the very few countries in the world in which that is reliably the case.

So the Sikh demonstrators forced a delay, and more considerations of legal issues. Are the legal issues raised on behalf of this guy bullshit? Maybe, maybe not. But to be legitimate, the final decision must be made by the court, after a fair hearing, not by executive decree, and not by popular opinion. And yes, sometimes there are appeals or last-minute reconsiderations of court decisions, but that's part of the process, too.

I know it's a messy process, but your nation will survive it. And if you think the process has too many imperfections, you're a citizen of a free, democratic country; you own your government; lobby your Parliament to amend the laws, and don't fear your courts when they do their jobs in interpreting and applying those laws.

In the end, the result is a stronger nation to pass on to your children, and to theirs.

[Richards 0]

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you brought it on yourself; and it wasn't "needless", it was done to make a point that I felt needed to be made: you let yourself give into the temptation to let an undercurrent of "soft bigotry" - or at the very least, ethnic xenophobia and resentment -

No actually I did not. I ask you now to point specifically to what I said that was bigotted or xenophobic. I did no such thing. I pointed to the actions of a group of individuals much like I would with those guys protesting soldiers funerals or the people who block abortion clinics, The fact that the group causing the ruckus was ethnic and themselves made their ethnicity a central point in the issue does not make my comment "soft" bigotted or any other kind of bigotted. You have no basis for that claim. You saw what you wanted to see.

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and I fight it within myself, too; sometimes I really have to consciously force myself not to do it (like when there's an Asian driver doing 45 mph in the left lane of a freeway. God, why do they do that? But I digress.)

Then that is your issue. Do not project that on me. Where did I say anything to the effect of "why do do that" or any other statement implying that a specific behavioural traight was unique to any community?

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There are so many really good arguments out there about the need to get a handle on illegal immigration, ethnic resentment shouldn't be one of them, in my opinion.

I agree. That's why you should not have brought that into the argument.

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I know it pisses people off and makes them defensive when I call them on it, but it's how I feel about it.

I am not pissed off but when my intentions are erroneously called into question I will correct the person who does so.

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Our protective laws should apply to Canadian citizens, legal immigrants and those who declare refugee status the instant they arrive (not merely when they get busted for being here ilegally). If you are caught here illegally your remaining time in Canada should be about as long as it takes to drive you to the airport

Wrong!! Every citizen of every modern democratic nation (such as yours, for example) needs to understand how wrong this is. Without the rule of law, enacted by the people, and genuine due process in how that law is applied and enforced, our nations and their ideals are nothing.

It is not wrong. He has access to proper channels of immigration. If someone buds in line do we give him a hearing to decide if he has to go back to his place in line? I did not say that he could not try to immigrate here legally. We simply cannot allow him to circumvent the process the way he was otherwise we are rewarding those who jump the line or skip it altogether.

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I beg you: do not begrudge trials and hearings for those accused of wrongdoing - that is the proper way for a legitimate government to pronounce a person a wrongdoer, not by mere "declaration". That very process, even despite its expense and imperfections, only strengthens a democratic nation, it doesn't diminish it.

He was here illegally and should not have had the right to the hearing he did. He does have the right when he gets back to India to go to the Canadian consulate and state his case from there like every other citizen from india has to do before coming here

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The brave Canadian heroes who fought & died, did so to allow each of us to have the nations we live in, where people can publicly petition the government for redress, even if by demonstrations. You see the news. The demonstrators in Burma and Pakistan were beaten and jailed. That doesn't happen in your nation, or in mine. You and I are blessed to live in two of the very few countries in the world in which that is reliably the case.

So the Sikh demonstrators forced a delay, and more considerations of legal issues. Are the legal issues raised on behalf of this guy bullshit? Maybe, maybe not. But to be legitimate, the final decision must be made by the court, after a fair hearing, not by executive decree, and not by popular opinion. And yes, sometimes there are appeals or last-minute reconsiderations of court decisions, but that's part of the process, too.

I am not against them protesting. I do not accept them physically blocking the process anymore than I agree with abortion clinic protestors physically blocking access to clinics. When you physically prevent a court ordered action you are no longer protesting the law....you are breaking the law. Yesterday our government rewarded that behaviour

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and don't fear your courts when they do their jobs in interpreting and applying those laws.

I do not fear the decision of the court. I fear that our system has backed down to thuggery and intimidation. Our system has decided to side with those who obstruct the law by force rather than the courts.

Yesterday was not a good day for the rule of law or this country

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[rehmwa 2]

Hey cool. A thread about illegal immigration and Andy9o8 calls a poster a racist (but in way that doesn't result in a banning).

That's something new.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Richards 0]

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Hey cool. A thread about illegal immigration and Andy9o8 calls a poster a racist (but in way that doesn't result in a banning).

That's something new.

The race card as a response to a debate on illegal immigration is as old as sin.

With the article it is not so much the issue of illegal immigration, nor the political pressure that a community put in our government that bothers me (although I do not like special interest kow-towing). The issue is that they physicall blocked our government from doing their job and intimidated them into not doing their job. The precident this sets frightens me. Our government needs to set the example and exercise that courts order to deport this guy. The consequences of provoking a response from his community are less severe than those of letting his community dictate our immigration policy to us by force.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.