KelliJ 0 #76 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote Is that a fact? I'd like to see some statistics to back up that claim, if you don't mind. Be sure to include those who died because Clinton refused to take action when he could have or should have. I'll wait. Yes, that is a fact. I posted a link showing the 1.3 million Iraqi death's from Bush's war previously in this thread. Since the war in Iraq has proven to be a HUGE mistake, and Colin Powell went on record in 2001 claiming that Iraq posed no significant threat to her neighbors, it's tough to blame those deaths on Clinton. Ok, that's the figures you are attributing to Bush. Now, to back up your claim, you must present figures of civilian deaths attributed to Clinton's actions (or inaction). Still waiting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #77 December 12, 2007 QuoteSorry, but if you want to play silly games of semantics you'll have to find someone else. Hey, you said it. If you meant something else, you should have said something else.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #78 December 12, 2007 QuoteI am going to take my baseball glove and go home.....pout pout pout Just leave the ball, ok? Please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #79 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Is that a fact? I'd like to see some statistics to back up that claim, if you don't mind. Be sure to include those who died because Clinton refused to take action when he could have or should have. I'll wait. Yes, that is a fact. I posted a link showing the 1.3 million Iraqi death's from Bush's war previously in this thread. Since the war in Iraq has proven to be a HUGE mistake, and Colin Powell went on record in 2001 claiming that Iraq posed no significant threat to her neighbors, it's tough to blame those deaths on Clinton. Ok, that's the figures you are attributing to Bush. Now, to back up your claim, you must present figures of civilian deaths attributed to Clinton's actions (or inaction). Still waiting. I'm unaware of any claims by anyone of deaths exceeding 1 million due to anything Clinton did or didn't do. If you are aware of any, please let us know. Otherwise the substantial number of those dead from Bush's war are evidence enough.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #80 December 12, 2007 Boy, Jeanne. There are a lot of neo-cons here on SC who, though I disagree with almost everything that spews from their pie holes, I would hate to see die over there. Let 'em have their opinions from behind their computer screens. The fewer we bring home dead, the better. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #81 December 12, 2007 I dont want to see any of them dead.. but I do want them to be equal opportunity targets for the bullshit they seem to dig so much..if you want a fucking war and you are a war mongering chickenhawk.....at least go to war....with the enemy .......not your fellow countrymen who didnt and still dont believe it was such a great friggin idea in the first place. Oh yeah thats right... chicken....aint gonna happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #82 December 12, 2007 Hmmmm...interesting manner of debate. One side is big, so it MUST be bigger than the other. Since it was you who made the claim it is up to you to show the data, not me. Do you always make claims without having any idea what the facts are? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #83 December 12, 2007 Yeah...I guess I agree with that, but I figure the more people over there, the more coming home in a box. I don't much like that though. Guess I wish they'd all come home and leave the boxer-up'ers without a job--they can collect unemployment. But maybe that's the bleeding heart liberal bustin' through the tough exterior...lol. Or maybe it's from all the blood lost from my urinary tract yesterday. Heh. The anemia's touched my brain or sumthin'. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #84 December 12, 2007 QuoteWhen liberals, i.e. so called independent You are assuming that a liberal and an independent are the same thing. That's not the case.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #85 December 12, 2007 Quote Hmmmm...interesting manner of debate. One side is big, so it MUST be bigger than the other. Since it was you who made the claim it is up to you to show the data, not me. Do you always make claims without having any idea what the facts are? You just let me know how to count deaths that have not been reported by anyone. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #86 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote RON PAUL! Amen! When liberals, i.e. so called independent voter starts yelling Amen to Ron Paul, gives this conservative pause as to why. Why do you think "independent voter" means liberal? Who was the last third party candidate to garner a significant percentage of the votes? Blues, Dave From Pop's "I probably like Joe Biden the best"... From several of his post, I think he leans more to the Left then he might think, just my oppinion. > Who was the last third party candidate to garner a significant percentage of the votes? That little Billionair fella from Texas comes to mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #87 December 12, 2007 Quote Now, to back up your claim, you must present figures of civilian deaths attributed to Clinton's actions (or inaction). Still waiting. I think I may be reading more into you posts then you intend … or maybe not (?) Perhaps the largest number of deaths that could be attributable to lack of action or foreign policy choices by President Clinton’s Administration are from (1) Iraqi sanctions: 250,000 - 500,000 children, which then-UN Ambassador former Secretary of State Albright asserted: "I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it" 1996. (A comment which she later conceded was less than wise in her memoir.) (2) Rwanda: While US or other allied intervention is unlikely to have eliminated all 800,000 - 1Million associated deaths, action would likely have significantly decreased the ethnic cleansing. On the other hand, you may be proposing a counterfactual, i.e., imagine if President Clinton had approved the execution of some additional military action or covert action targeting Osama Bin Laden. If one assumes that such actions were more successful then similar opportunities over the most recent six years, one obvious possibility is avoidance of the attacks of September 11th, along with subsequent Madrid and London attacks by Al Qa’eda network affiliates. Assuming such an action(s) was/were successful before President Clinton left office what other impacts may have resulted? Is there a reasonable path of events that would have led to more deaths than occurred on Sept 11, 2001? We can’t subtract just one piece from history, as much as we might like to subtract it. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #88 December 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think we need more of the right wing OVER THERE.. being fucking targets So you're willing to kill more of our good people, who are willing to stand in the gap? Sometimes its best not to respond to such lunacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #89 December 12, 2007 Quote I am going to take my baseball glove and go home.....pout pout pout Its like having a conversation with a child Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #90 December 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI think we need more of the right wing OVER THERE.. being fucking targets So you're willing to kill more of our good people, who are willing to stand in the gap? Sometimes its best not to respond to such lunacy. It's not lunacy to desire that those fighting the war be a subset of those who support the war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #91 December 12, 2007 Your (1) and (2) were what I was looking for, among other examples. Just those two alone would equal any civilian deaths attributed to Bush's actions in Iraq. It is a remarkable, yet sad, fact that the choices our President makes can mean life or death for so many innocent people. As shown by these examples inaction can kill just as many as action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #92 December 12, 2007 QuoteI am going to take my baseball glove and go home..... You promise? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #93 December 12, 2007 QuoteHmmmm...interesting manner of debate. One side is big, so it MUST be bigger than the other. Since it was you who made the claim it is up to you to show the data, not me. Do you always make claims without having any idea what the facts are? I'd like to say your post represents an interesting manner of debate itself. However, people trying to pass off this and that "what if" scenario as fact is pretty commonplace in this forum and no longer all that interesting. What might have happened if Bush 1, Clinton, or Bush II had done something different is a matter of guesswork, not fact. The same is true for what Kerry or Gore might have done had they been elected President. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #94 December 12, 2007 Quote Hey... if you dig war.. GO TO WAR...I see a lot of right wing loud mouths.. trumpeting their patriotism....yet they do it from behind their keyboardSomeone is having to do it... but as the Young Republicans pointed out....and their forfathers in the administration did during the Vietnam War... its for someone ELSE to do. That would be the Young Republicans that have MORE veterans in Congress than the Democrats, yes?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #95 December 12, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think we need more of the right wing OVER THERE.. being fucking targets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you're willing to kill more of our good people, who are willing to stand in the gap? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sometimes its best not to respond to such lunacy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteIt's not lunacy to desire that those fighting the war be a subset of those who support the war.It's an all volunteer service, so apparently, most of them do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #96 December 12, 2007 Quote From Pop's "I probably like Joe Biden the best"... From several of his post, I think he leans more to the Left then he might think, just my oppinion. Its issue by issue. If we start talking about things like welfare you will think I lean way right 7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #97 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote From Pop's "I probably like Joe Biden the best"... From several of his post, I think he leans more to the Left then he might think, just my oppinion. Its issue by issue. If we start talking about things like welfare you will think I lean way right Ahh...you give me hope to live yet another day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #98 December 12, 2007 Quote Your (1) and (2) were what I was looking for, among other examples. Just those two alone would equal any civilian deaths attributed to Bush's actions in Iraq. It is a remarkable, yet sad, fact that the choices our President makes can mean life or death for so many innocent people. As shown by these examples inaction can kill just as many as action. Remember which president pushed for those Iraq sanctions. One can hardly assume that the deaths in Rwanda were caused by Clinton's inactions. Should we blame all the deaths in Darfur on Bush? That would move his total up to close to 2 million. One has to really twist their imagination to find that Clinton caused anywhere near the death toll of Bush.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #99 December 12, 2007 Quote I am going to take my baseball glove and go home.....pout pout pout -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its like having a conversation with a child Reading comprehension skills are required in a text based forum.Keep up with the conversation.... or are you too waterlogged Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #100 December 12, 2007 QuoteYour (1) and (2) were what I was looking for, among other examples. Just those two alone would equal any civilian deaths attributed to Bush's actions in Iraq. You do understand the difference between the results of actions... that could have been prevented with a modicum of brain cells rubbing together, and inaction due to not having a national interest to do so.... contrary to what a lot of people would like...we are not the WORLD POLICE. This is similar to the total inaction of the Bush Administration on DARFUR...other than saying something should be done..... BUT as we know... NO OIL so nothing will be done....are you laying all the deaths there as being Bushes fault..???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
