Another US Shooting-this time a church

[Lefty 0]

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Let's be clear - keeping guns out of the hands of madmen would result in a lot of saved lives.

But since that is no more feasible than completely eliminating crime itself, I'll just stick to carrying my Walther. Thanks.

Edit: Kallend, you sound like a man with some answers. What would you suggest we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals besides the laws we already have on the books?

Been sleeping for the last few days?

Sorry, I guess I didn't specify that I'd like to hear good suggestions. Now, what were you saying?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[kallend 2,148]

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Let's be clear - keeping guns out of the hands of madmen would result in a lot of saved lives.

But since that is no more feasible than completely eliminating crime itself, I'll just stick to carrying my Walther. Thanks.

Edit: Kallend, you sound like a man with some answers. What would you suggest we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals besides the laws we already have on the books?

Been sleeping for the last few days?

Sorry, I guess I didn't specify that I'd like to hear good suggestions. Now, what were you saying?

Let's hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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Let's be clear - keeping guns out of the hands of madmen would result in a lot of saved lives.

Go ahead and pass another law stating just that and get back to me with the results. How do you plan on executing your well laid out plan?

Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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I still stand by my original quote that it is a sad state of affairs that a church needs armed guards.

No kidding. That speaks quite clearly about our mainstream culture.

You apparently misunderstand the situation.

The armed guards were brought in because of another shooting 12 hours earlier at another church, and the gunman was still on the loose. It was a wise and prudent security measure, and it paid off big time. It does not mean that the church always has armed guards all the time.

Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

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Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals.

I don't think there's a good way to keep guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals, so I think the best alternative is to make sure that the sane and law abiding can shoot back if they want to.

[Amazon 7]

I can just see all the whackjobs in churches across the country using this to "prove" that they are being discriminated against because they are "christians"

[billvon 3,116]

> I can just see all the whackjobs in churches across the country using
>this to "prove" that they are being discriminated against because they are
>"christians"

Anyone want to place any bets on whether the gunman was named after an Apostle?

[Amazon 7]

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Ironically, was it not a woman who was the armed security guard at the Colorado Springs Church?

Perhaps the lesson to be learned, if we are basing policy recommendations on this single data point, is to arm women?

Yup women with guns.. and the bronze ovaries to use them.

[rushmc 23]

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> I can just see all the whackjobs in churches across the country using
>this to "prove" that they are being discriminated against because they are
>"christians"

Anyone want to place any bets on whether the gunman was named after an Apostle?

I had know idea there were so many intolerant anti christian bigots on this site??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Gee that is funny did you get that right from the pulpit or from your mirror.

Whenever I see the 700 Club etc.. I am amazed at how much intolerance and hate there is in the Religious Right.

[Royd 0]

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Let's be clear - keeping guns out of the hands of madmen would result in a lot of saved lives.

How about ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel? Can we work on that?

[billvon 3,116]

>I had know idea there were so many intolerant anti christian bigots on this site??

Will you take the bet?

[Rookie120 0]

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Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies.

I dont see a way to do it unless you go door to door and try to confiscate every gun in the country. When done still will not remove them all. So let me hear your words or wisdom!

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[rushmc 23]

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Gee that is funny did you get that right from the pulpit or from your mirror.

Whenever I see the 700 Club etc.. I am amazed at how much intolerance and hate there is in the Religious Right.

HEY, YOU LEAVE MY MIRROR OUT OF THIS. IT IS MY MIRROR!!!

On a serious note. I am sorry you are so threatened by the religous

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,148]

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Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies.

I dont see a way to do it unless you go door to door and try to confiscate every gun in the country. When done still will not remove them all. So let me hear your words or wisdom!

I have already put forward a proposal.

All you gun enthusiasts can do is whine "I dont see a way to do it " whine whine whine.

What a cop out. All of you!

If you can't take responsibilty for the security of your own guns, you shouldn't have them.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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>I had know idea there were so many intolerant anti christian bigots on this site??

Will you take the bet?

The "bet"? Irralevant to the whole thread. I am still surprised by the bigotry against christians as if they are so "dangerous"

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,148]

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Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals.

I don't think there's a good way to keep guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals, so I think the best alternative is to make sure that the sane and law abiding can shoot back if they want to.

Why is it that the "sane and law abiding" are SO unwilling to take responsibility for keeping their guns out of the hands of madmen?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

I think the problem most people are having with your proposal is that if you make a gun impossible to steal, you also make it impossible to get to if you need it.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Still waiting to hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals.

I don't think there's a good way to keep guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals, so I think the best alternative is to make sure that the sane and law abiding can shoot back if they want to.

Why must the two concepts be mutually exclusive?

[Lefty 0]

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Let's be clear - keeping guns out of the hands of madmen would result in a lot of saved lives.

But since that is no more feasible than completely eliminating crime itself, I'll just stick to carrying my Walther. Thanks.

Edit: Kallend, you sound like a man with some answers. What would you suggest we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals besides the laws we already have on the books?

Been sleeping for the last few days?

Sorry, I guess I didn't specify that I'd like to hear good suggestions. Now, what were you saying?

Let's hear YOUR ideas for keeping guns out of the hands of loonies.

I'll raise you one. I'll tell you how you can keep guns out of the hands of loonies and criminals. You can't. You can't for the same reason you can't keep drugs away from junkies who want to score. If someone wants a gun and they can't obtain one legally by going through the procedures that we already have on the books, they'll use illegal methods.

As I mentioned in my other post, you'd have as much luck trying to keep the crazies/criminals away from guns as you would trying to eliminate crime itself. The best we as a society can hope to do is to not make it harder for the good and law-abiding citizens to own guns and to carry them concealed on their person if they so choose. This church shooting incident is a perfect demonstration of my point.

As you've no doubt surmised, the laws on the books did not stop this man from obtaining a gun and using it to kill people. The "laws" are no more alive than the guns naive people ascribe human characteristics to when they blabber that morbidly humorous line about how "guns kill people". What stopped the criminal in this case? Why, he got shot! By what, you ask? By a security guard wielding a...a what? A gun! A good person with a gun did more good than a couple centuries of gun laws.

Now, Kallend, I'm sure you've got a solution. After all, this whole notion of crime and of criminals getting their hands on instruments which make their jobs easier was just waiting for someone like you to come along and solve it. I went and looked at the other recent gun thread, and the only contributions I see made by you involve the completely novel and unique idea of creating more laws to stop these criminals (who by definition ignore laws) from obtaining weapons.

I'll be sticking with my Walther, thanks. You can wait for the police to show up.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[kallend 2,148]

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I think the problem most people are having with your proposal is that if you make a gun impossible to steal, you also make it impossible to get to if you need it.

What a cop-out.

If you keep a gun for personal security, then why is keeping IT secure impossible?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

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Why is it that the "sane and law abiding" are SO unwilling to take responsibility for keeping their guns out of the hands of madmen?

Because "madmen" by definition are "mad" and therefore unpredictable and uncontrollable and nobody can possibly plan for every contingency?

[kallend 2,148]

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Why is it that the "sane and law abiding" are SO unwilling to take responsibility for keeping their guns out of the hands of madmen?

Because "madmen" by definition are "mad" and therefore unpredictable and uncontrollable and nobody can possibly plan for every contingency?

And you can't outsmart someone who's deranged? Really?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lefty 0]

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All you gun enthusiasts can do is whine "I dont see a way to do it " whine whine whine.

What a cop out. All of you!

*Inserts "Get your head out of the clouds and face reality" remark.*

Eventually you'll have to accept that criminals break laws. Throw more laws at them if you want to. The laws haven't solved the problem, and making more laws won't, either.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Nightingale 0]

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I think the problem most people are having with your proposal is that if you make a gun impossible to steal, you also make it impossible to get to if you need it.

What a cop-out.

If you keep a gun for personal security, then why is keeping IT secure impossible?

What could happen, under your proposed "solution":

Four armed men break into Katie's house. Katie hears them, opens her gun safe, gets her .40 Glock, and calls 911. She locks her bedroom door and hides in the closet, waiting for the police. The men break down Katie's door. They ransack her bedroom. They enter the closet. Seeing their weapons and fearing for her life, Katie lawfully fires her weapon at the men, killing two and wounding a third before being incapacitated and raped by the third and fourth attacker. The attackers leave, taking Katie's jewelry, electronics, and her weapon. The police finally turn up forty five minutes later and find two dead perpetrators, a blood trail leading out the door, and Katie in a coma. She wakes up a week later handcuffed to her hospital bed because the weapon she had removed from her gun safe to lawfully defend herself was stolen by her attackers and used in another robbery the next day.

That is why I don't like your "solution."