Financial Responsibility

[kbordson 8]

So... one of the other threads got me thinking (a dangerous pasttime, I know)

I'm responsible. I work hard. I invest. Someone explain why it should be taken away and given to those that dont.

Example. Last night, I received a phone call about my sister complaining about needing to spend $350 on a snowblower. Full story - She has been having financial problems for YEARS. And I have tried to help her, both with money itself and with advice/recommendations to prevent problems (get your name OFF the trailer after the divorce, don't get a new car yet, don't buy that house - for MANY reasons)

Two months ago, she called me stating that she hasn't been able to pay her gas bill for two months. This is while I was at a conference (not much I could do to fix her problem then) So... before I could finish the conference and get back home, she took out a loan against her life insurance. OK... I guess. Problem fixed.

Now... two months later. She has a snow blower. Just doesn't work well. It would cost $200 to fix it. But... instead she decides she needs a new one. (and in reality, instead of getting the $350 one... she picks a $500 one) This is all while I was out shovelling snow on my driveway yesterday (how much did a shovel cost?) OK... for whatever reason she doesn't have the time to do it herself, she has a 13year old son that could shovel. (a 13 year old that has his own cell phone and complete cable, and every wrestling DVD possible and has now had two PSP's cuz he broke his first one in a temper tantrum)

And then I read in the other thread that there is a disparity in the haves and have nots!! And that all of my money SHOULD be redistribuated!

My sister directly created her financial situation. Someone explain to me WHY I should keep supporting her poor decision making skills.

[lawrocket 3]

You shouldn't be suppoting her. You should be giving your money to the government so that THEY can support her. Don't you see the difference?

Some people "need" help. You have demonstrated that you are good at this stuff. If you can be responsible for yourself, it is your moral imperative to be responsible for others. If you dont' take care of her, how can she be expected to take care of herself? She has had a raw deal and a bad situation in life, unlike you who had all of the advantages.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,184]

It doesn't seem to me as if your sister is actually in the set of "have-nots".

Now, had she been a big investor in mortage funds, the president would be very anxious to bail her out of her bad decision making.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kbordson 8]

Quote

It doesn't seem to me as if your sister is actually in the set of "have-nots".

Ask her. She thinks she is. With her cumulative debt and earning potential.... bankruptcy is likely in her future. But... she (like most, not all, but most in her financial situation) doesn't want to accept that it was her actions that cause this.

I just get frustrated with the "Somebody help me" cries when she keeps hitting herself with that hammer again and again and again and again.....

[Amazon 7]

What I have earned... I consider to be mine.

I pay far too many taxes that are wasted and squandered on things I do not support or believe in..

That said... I like nice roads to drive on(sometimes...I have a 4x4 so I could do without if needed)

I want to live in an educated society...not with a bunch of unedjeecatered hicks that look like they just escaped from a Road Warrior set......

So I do support some taxes...that support building the infrastructure we have to use.. and education to make the rabble a little less stupid.

I do not support welfare.. but since a society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens... those that do need help should have the help there when they need it

( And to all you right wing buttstains out there...who expect OTHERS to pay but not you... that could even be you... one severe car accident... with traumatic brain injury and poof.. there you would be)

I believe in fiscal responsibility.... not fiscal avoidance that the right wing seems to support.

[TrophyHusband 0]

Quote

I do not support welfare.. but since a society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens... those that do need help should have the help there when they need it

there-in lies the rub. how do we weed the truly unfortunate from the stupid or plain fucking lazy?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

I do not support welfare.. but since a society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens... those that do need help should have the help there when they need it

there-in lies the rub. how do we weed the truly unfortunate from the stupid or plain fucking lazy?

Difficult, but I'd prefer to err on the side of helping a few undeserving people than neglecting a few truly deserving people.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "stupid"; mentally ill people need help, not a kick in the butt.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

there-in lies the rub. how do we weed the truly unfortunate from the stupid or plain fucking lazy

Give incentives to people to report cheaters and get them the hell off the rolls....I would also provide for retraining those on the rolls to get them off as soon as we can. If you cant do a physical job any longer due to an injury.. there are PLENTY of office jobs that can be done if you are in a wheelchair.

[shropshire 0]

Well for me I believe that the education systems in our countries let us down on a number of levels and this is one of them.

We are not (as a general rule) taught financial reponsability practices and it's not something you "Just Know", you need to be provided with a tool kit and made to understand the concequences; which can be far reaching and long lasting.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[wmw999 2,603]

Quote

I do not support welfare.. but since a society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens... those that do need help should have the help there when they need it

Quote

there-in lies the rub. how do we weed the truly unfortunate from the stupid or plain fucking lazy?

We can't completely. I do know that when I worked for the food stamp office, the percentage of people who were fraudulent was about 10%. Of those, most of them were poor, just not quite that poor.

Not everyone is smart, and our society has fewer and fewer options for people who aren't real smart. There's also more and more advertising telling these people that they need x, y, or z. If you combine that with their being brought up to either think they deserve stuff (and therefor should get it), or to think they don't deserve stuff (and therefore compensate).

No easy solution. But lots of folks aren't confrontational, because they want to preserve the relationship. How would it work for the OP if she were to just say to her sister's face what she's saying here? I used to have a co-worker who was always in financial trouble for the same types of reasons. Made good money, just not enough for her lifestyle. But it wasn't my place (for good organizational reasons in this case) to tell her just what I thought.

Each of us can suggest that folks listen to Dave Ramsey. He's not perfect, but if folks begin to internalize his message, it'll sure help.

Wendy w.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pirana 0]

Quote

So... one of the other threads got me thinking (a dangerous pasttime, I know)

I'm responsible. I work hard. I invest. Someone explain why it should be taken away and given to those that dont.

Example. Last night, I received a phone call about my sister complaining about needing to spend $350 on a snowblower. Full story - She has been having financial problems for YEARS. And I have tried to help her, both with money itself and with advice/recommendations to prevent problems (get your name OFF the trailer after the divorce, don't get a new car yet, don't buy that house - for MANY reasons)

Two months ago, she called me stating that she hasn't been able to pay her gas bill for two months. This is while I was at a conference (not much I could do to fix her problem then) So... before I could finish the conference and get back home, she took out a loan against her life insurance. OK... I guess. Problem fixed.

Now... two months later. She has a snow blower. Just doesn't work well. It would cost $200 to fix it. But... instead she decides she needs a new one. (and in reality, instead of getting the $350 one... she picks a $500 one) This is all while I was out shovelling snow on my driveway yesterday (how much did a shovel cost?) OK... for whatever reason she doesn't have the time to do it herself, she has a 13year old son that could shovel. (a 13 year old that has his own cell phone and complete cable, and every wrestling DVD possible and has now had two PSP's cuz he broke his first one in a temper tantrum)

And then I read in the other thread that there is a disparity in the haves and have nots!! And that all of my money SHOULD be redistribuated!

My sister directly created her financial situation. Someone explain to me WHY I should keep supporting her poor decision making skills.

Easy. You should not. You are not helping anything.

Some people need to be allowed to fail.

When you give her money, her situation may change slightly for a couple days or few weeks; but she'll be knocking on the door again soon; and you are out your money.

If you say no, everything is essentially still the same; except you still have your money.

I have siblings in debt to me to the tune of a couple grand. I now realize I will probably never see that money. I finally started saying NO. I put it to the last requestor that I did not have it (which I did not at the time), but that I could help them out by no longer putting money in the kids college savings and/or my retirement plan. Then, when my kids have to go to Podunk Vocational Institute instead of a real school I'll just explain that the money went to some family that can't manage their behaviors. And no it didn't really help. Oh well.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

We are not (as a general rule) taught financial reponsability practices and it's not something you "Just Know", you need to be provided with a tool kit and made to understand the concequences; which can be far reaching and long lasting.

2 things that should be required in all college curriculums (and to some extent high school)

1 - networking, interviewing, how to make a resume
2 - personal financial planning, how to save for retirement

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AllisonH 0]

Quote

Well for me I believe that the education systems in our countries let us down on a number of levels and this is one of them.

We are not (as a general rule) taught financial reponsability practices and it's not something you "Just Know", you need to be provided with a tool kit and made to understand the concequences; which can be far reaching and long lasting.

I agree, I was fortunate to be taught a decent amount about financial responsibility from my mother, but many people aren't.

I think a course in basic personal/family finance should be mandatory, either in high school or before you're allowed to get your own checking account or credit card.

[TrophyHusband 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I do not support welfare.. but since a society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens... those that do need help should have the help there when they need it

there-in lies the rub. how do we weed the truly unfortunate from the stupid or plain fucking lazy?

Difficult, but I'd prefer to err on the side of helping a few undeserving people than neglecting a few truly deserving people.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "stupid"; mentally ill people need help, not a kick in the butt.

no matter what, we will end up helping a few undeserving people and that is acceptable. what isn't acceptable is a system where hoards of people work the system so they don't have to get a job.

i should have been more clear about what i mean by stupid. i mean people who constantly make stupid decisions and refuse to change their practices. very intelligent people can fall into this category.

i agree with you about the mentally ill.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[shropshire 0]

3 - Parenting skills

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TrophyHusband 0]

my wife wants us to take a 13 week financial course. i joke with her that the final lesson is going to be "never pay someone $100 to tell you how to save money".

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Butters 0]

I (along with the rest of the Computer Science department) could have benefited from some of the following ...

Quote

2 things that should be required in all college curriculums (and to some extent high school)

1 - networking, interviewing, how to make a resume
2 - personal financial planning, how to save for retirement

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I think a course in basic personal/family finance should be mandatory, either in high school or before you're allowed to get your own checking account or credit card.

Once again, I’m pleasantly surprised at apparently how progressive
As juniors in high school (~16 yo), we were required to take a 9-week class on personal financial issues. From how to write a check, how to calculate credit card interest (based on APR), why and how to start an IRA (started my first one at 16), car loans, minimum auto insurance (in a no-fault state), why to have life insurance, etc.

If I recall correctly, we had to have a parent's permission to take this class too (like the sex ed classes).

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

We are not (as a general rule) taught financial reponsability practices and it's not something you "Just Know", you need to be provided with a tool kit and made to understand the concequences; which can be far reaching and long lasting.

2 things that should be required in all college curriculums (and to some extent high school)

1 - networking, interviewing, how to make a resume
2 - personal financial planning, how to save for retirement

Instead of what? Calculus? Differential equations?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Quote

I do not support welfare.. but since a society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens... those that do need help should have the help there when they need it

there-in lies the rub. how do we weed the truly unfortunate from the stupid or plain fucking lazy?

You don't because that's too hard to get right when you run into things like mental illness.

Instead you keep the level of assistance low enough that while basic needs are being met (food, shelter, clothing, medical) the specifics encourage working (no convienence foods like TV dinners or candy/soda/chips, dormitories not apartments, etc.) and are inexpensive enough (a 100 square foot dorm room with four bunks has to beat a single person's 500 square foot subsidized apartment) that it doesn't hurt to not differentiate between the needy and choosy.

[shropshire 0]

If necessary, yes but it doesn't have to be either or.

Even as an IT Engineer, Interview, CV, networking(!) and finance skills have been far more useful to me than Pure Maths.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

We are not (as a general rule) taught financial reponsability practices and it's not something you "Just Know", you need to be provided with a tool kit and made to understand the concequences; which can be far reaching and long lasting.

2 things that should be required in all college curriculums (and to some extent high school)

1 - networking, interviewing, how to make a resume
2 - personal financial planning, how to save for retirement

Instead of what? Calculus? Differential equations?

Maybe instead of lower level (GPA booster) breadth option,...excercise management, interpretive dance, etc.
For a more complete list look at the football teams' course lists.

[billvon 3,132]

>Two months ago, she called me stating that she hasn't been able to
>pay her gas bill for two months. This is while I was at a conference (not
>much I could do to fix her problem then) So... before I could finish the
>conference and get back home, she took out a loan against her life
>insurance.

That's bitten me before. I once helped someone out because they said they were going to lose their house. A short time later I read (here on DZ.com) how she had just bought a new helmet, and was spending some time on her tanning bed.

That's just greed. I don't think that has much to do with "mandatory redistribution of wealth."

>Someone explain to me WHY I should keep supporting her poor
>decision making skills.

Because you want to, and you made the decision to.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Instead of what? Calculus? Differential equations?

psych 101, any of the arts 'electives', etc

but maybe even those classes too - and I'm in a very physics oriented industry that uses all of it

I recruited frequently at colleges for candidates from technical degrees. Most of the kids are real dumbasses and lousy interviews despite high gradepoint averages. Few even know about simple dollar cost averaging and investing for retirement.

The real positive side of that is it's very easy to identify the gems from the typical crowd.

I'll take a 3.2 average that knows how to communicate clearly in plain english, and put together a good summary of experience, and that can handle simple and tough interview questions of various styles (I ask about personal goals, give actual problems to solve, and also give nearly impossible problems to solve just to see how they compose themselves, etc) over a 4.0 that can't look me in the eyes and give a good handshake and tries to 'wow' me by looking up a few specialize terms in the industry (and I personally fit closer to the last guy than the first when I graduated college).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Channman 2]

> So... before I could finish the conference and get back home, she took out a loan against her life insurance. OK... I guess. Problem fixed.

Borrowing her own money, and paying the insurance company back with interest...if banks only had this option every time someone needed to make a house/car payment using their checking account.

I've seen it all to often, I have a family member in the same sinking boat.

Your sister needs to learn how to live within a budget.