kallend 2,148 #76 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteDid he get paid any less than a 2nd Lt. that paid his own way through school? How about his taxpayer funded state university? What a B.S. argument, especially coming from someone who exists on a taxpayer (read welfare) funded University. Who would that be? You might want to check your facts before shooting off your mouth keyboard. Quote I don't know all the details of his education funding but, but why wouldn't a 2nd Lt. take advantage of what was promised by the Govt. for his pay grade? He simply took advantage of what was offered in exchange for his services and got a good education as a result which then put him into a higher income and tax bracket. I can't believe you have the nerve to call that a handout. . I'm sure he took advantage of everything the TAXPAYER FUNDED military had to offer, as well as a TAXPAYER FUNDED state university. No matter how you look at it, his education was paid for by TAXPAYERS.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #77 December 8, 2007 Quote I'm sure he took advantage of everything the TAXPAYER FUNDED military had to offer, as well as a TAXPAYER FUNDED state university. No matter how you look at it, his education was paid for by TAXPAYERS. No matter how you look at it, it wasn't a handout, which you claimed it was. Nice backpeddle, got mirrors? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #78 December 8, 2007 Quote Quote I'm sure he took advantage of everything the TAXPAYER FUNDED military had to offer, as well as a TAXPAYER FUNDED state university. No matter how you look at it, his education was paid for by TAXPAYERS. No matter how you look at it, it wasn't a handout, which you claimed it was. Nice backpeddle, got mirrors? . Subsidized tuition at a state university isn't a handout? Get real, of course it is. Who exactly do you think is paying? PS checked your facts yet on your claim about me?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #79 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote The extreme left feel the need to penalize the successfull so that they are only marginally better off than those who sit on their asses. Why should anyone really bust thier ass if they can be just as well off (or in some cases better off) sitting around and doing nothing. Given the disparity between rich and poor in north America, 2001 data: top 1% own 33.4% of the wealth next 19% own 51.0% bottom 80% own 15.5% your comment is just absurd. John, I lived in BC and I saw people on welfare living better than I was on minimum wage. I saw people in subsidized housing (who qualified for it by being on welfare) being provided with condos that I would not be able to afford to rent on the wage I earned. I saw unions supported by the NDP who acted as though they were untouchable and there was no way the average guy could get into these union jobs unless he was connected. Basically you were born into a union family or you were minimum wage. Is that really much better than the other end of the spectrum where if you are not born into a blue blood family you will be poor for life? You and I have discused this before and you should recall I support socialized health care, schooling and charities provided they are kept within a reasonable limit and they are aimed towards getting people up on thier feet rather than carrying them indefinitely. I have a few distant relatives who are career welfare and these cousins could get work if they tried, but they don't want to. That is what I resent supporting. When I refer to the extreme left I am not talking about your Democrat party or people who have compassion for the less fortunate. We in Canada have a left and right party much like you do in the US. Our "right wing" party the Conservatives are actually to the left of your Democrats. Taking that into consideration think of where our left wing party (Liberals) stands or for that matter the NDP which are to the left of our liberals and gaining strength. As has been pointed out on another thread a balance between socialism and capitalism works but the experience we have had up here is that when the extreme left gain momentum they take things to extremes and the average guy suffers. Anyway, I did not join this thread to get into a fight, I simply wanted to point out to KW that blanket acceptance of the states power to tax and redistribute is also dangerous. We can question the right of the state to search us or monitor us we should also be allowed to question how much money the state takes from our paycheck and where it goes. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #80 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote I believe the basic human needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, that's all. To be otherwise seems selfish. Great. Believe what you want, and do what you want with what is yours. Just don't take what is mine. Who paid for your college scholarship? The Dept of Defense. I signed a contract pledging military service after college. "Freedom to Contract." See also "Quid pro Quo." Hmmm - I think the DoD is 100% paid for by the taxpayers. Last time I checked that was the case. And you said in an earlier thread that you went to a taxpayer subsidized state university. So you had no qualms about taking a taxpayer subsidized handout but you don't want to pay when your turn comes. You'll make a great lawyer. Let me get this straight. Some one signs up. In the contract they get education. They do thier stint and then, getting what they signed up for is a "handout"?? Now THAT is an interesting way to look at it."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #81 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote I believe the basic human needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, that's all. To be otherwise seems selfish. Great. Believe what you want, and do what you want with what is yours. Just don't take what is mine. Who paid for your college scholarship? The Dept of Defense. I signed a contract pledging military service after college. "Freedom to Contract." See also "Quid pro Quo." Hmmm - I think the DoD is 100% paid for by the taxpayers. Last time I checked that was the case. And you said in an earlier thread that you went to a taxpayer subsidized state university. So you had no qualms about taking a taxpayer subsidized handout but you don't want to pay when your turn comes. You'll make a great lawyer. You know, you posted in an earlier thread about paying the freight. Well let me give you a little insite to my thoughts on this. I have brought this up with friends and family (and gotten lambasted for it) but I ( who did not serve in the military) think anyone who serves should NOT have to pay federal income taxes. If they have served in a hot zone, they should not pay property taxes either. (up to a point in both cases) I, me am will to "pay the frieght" for those who did this. You sir, have a dam strange view of handouts and rate high on the irony score (for me at least) in the context of this thread"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #82 December 8, 2007 Quote Quote The extreme left feel the need to penalize the successfull so that they are only marginally better off than those who sit on their asses. Why should anyone really bust thier ass if they can be just as well off (or in some cases better off) sitting around and doing nothing. Given the disparity between rich and poor in north America,You accuse some one of "whining" and you make this comment?????Just what is exposed here??????2001 data: top 1% own 33.4% of the wealth next 19% own 51.0% bottom 80% own 15.5% your comment is just absurd. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #83 December 8, 2007 Quote Quote I'm sure he took advantage of everything the TAXPAYER FUNDED military had to offer, as well as a TAXPAYER FUNDED state university. No matter how you look at it, his education was paid for by TAXPAYERS. No matter how you look at it, it wasn't a handout, which you claimed it was. Nice backpeddle, got mirrors? . HEY!!!!!!! You leave MY mirrors out of this!!!!!!!! "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #84 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote I believe the basic human needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, that's all. To be otherwise seems selfish. Great. Believe what you want, and do what you want with what is yours. Just don't take what is mine. Who paid for your college scholarship? The Dept of Defense. I signed a contract pledging military service after college. "Freedom to Contract." See also "Quid pro Quo." Hmmm - I think the DoD is 100% paid for by the taxpayers. Last time I checked that was the case. And you said in an earlier thread that you went to a taxpayer subsidized state university. So you had no qualms about taking a taxpayer subsidized handout but you don't want to pay when your turn comes. You'll make a great lawyer. You know, you posted in an earlier thread about paying the freight. Well let me give you a little insite to my thoughts on this. I have brought this up with friends and family (and gotten lambasted for it) but I ( who did not serve in the military) think anyone who serves should NOT have to pay federal income taxes. If they have served in a hot zone, they should not pay property taxes either. (up to a point in both cases) I, me am will to "pay the frieght" for those who did this. You sir, have a dam strange view of handouts and rate high on the irony score (for me at least) in the context of this thread If you got a DoD scholarship, you had your education subsidized by taxpayers regardless of the conditions under which it happened. If you went to a state university, you had your education subsidized by taxpayers. If you then whine about paying your taxes because others others might benefit, you are a hypocrite. Now, I have no problem with DoD scholarships or state universities. I DO have a problem with people who took from the system and then whine about giving back. It's very simple, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #85 December 8, 2007 Quote I DO have a problem with people who took from the system and then whine about giving back. Does that include the 'Less Fortunate'? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #86 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuote I DO have a problem with people who took from the system and then whine about giving back. Does that include the 'Less Fortunate'? It includes anyone who whines about paying their taxes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #87 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote I DO have a problem with people who took from the system and then whine about giving back. Does that include the 'Less Fortunate'? It includes anyone who whines about paying their taxes. You know is all fairness sir. I cant recal many on this site complaining about paying taxes. Now, the "rate" or amount they pay is another matter. I seem to remember you thing many do not pay enough"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #88 December 8, 2007 >You know is all fairness sir. I cant recal many on this site complaining >about paying taxes. Now, the "rate" or amount they pay is another matter. By that logic, very few people here have ever complained about GW Bush. The amount of mistakes he makes, though, is another matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #89 December 8, 2007 Quote >You know is all fairness sir. I cant recal many on this site complaining >about paying taxes. Now, the "rate" or amount they pay is another matter. By that logic, very few people here have ever complained about GW Bush. The amount of mistakes he makes, though, is another matter. ya, really applicable"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #90 December 8, 2007 >ya, really applicable Sorry, that wasn't for you; I know you don't 'get' analogies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #91 December 8, 2007 Quote>ya, really applicable Sorry, that wasn't for you; I know you don't 'get' analogies. I get good relavant ones. Not ones like this, that the only intnetion is to drag the thead into the gutters Or worse yet, if the analogy is meant to belittle someone......"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #92 December 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote I DO have a problem with people who took from the system and then whine about giving back. Does that include the 'Less Fortunate'? It includes anyone who whines about paying their taxes. Would that include GA taxes/fees?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #93 December 11, 2007 Quote Quote Quote I'm sure he took advantage of everything the TAXPAYER FUNDED military had to offer, as well as a TAXPAYER FUNDED state university. No matter how you look at it, his education was paid for by TAXPAYERS. No matter how you look at it, it wasn't a handout, which you claimed it was. Nice backpeddle, got mirrors? . Subsidized tuition at a state university isn't a handout? Get real, of course it is. Who exactly do you think is paying? PS checked your facts yet on your claim about me? I did. Here's just the money IIT got from NSF. There's more but this is enough to refute your claim that IIT and your salary aren't tax payer subsidized. http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/profiles/data/tables/e2001691.xls Here's a letter from one of your Directors where he admits IIT recieves Government Funding http://power.iit.edu/about/director/ Now will you quit your whining? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #94 December 11, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'm sure he took advantage of everything the TAXPAYER FUNDED military had to offer, as well as a TAXPAYER FUNDED state university. No matter how you look at it, his education was paid for by TAXPAYERS. No matter how you look at it, it wasn't a handout, which you claimed it was. Nice backpeddle, got mirrors? . Subsidized tuition at a state university isn't a handout? Get real, of course it is. Who exactly do you think is paying? PS checked your facts yet on your claim about me? I did. Here's just the money IIT got from NSF. There's more but this is enough to refute your claim that IIT and your salary aren't tax payer subsidized. http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/profiles/data/tables/e2001691.xls Here's a letter from one of your Directors where he admits IIT recieves Government Funding http://power.iit.edu/about/director/ Now will you quit your whining? . IIT is a private university and not one penny of my salary comes from the government. Some of our research labs have government contracts, just like Boeing and Northrop Grumman and Batelle have government contracts. FYI, contracts are not subsidies. Our students' tuition is not subsidized by the state or federal government. If you don't know what you're writing about, don't write it, it just makes you look silly.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #95 December 11, 2007 Quote FYI, contracts are not subsidies. So you've flip flopped on this now? Isn't this exactly what I've been contending and you have been arguing against? If IIT receives any taxpayer money, then that is a subsized school. That would be like an office worker claiming their paycheck doesn't come from sales. Talk about looking silly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #96 December 11, 2007 Quote Quote FYI, contracts are not subsidies. So you've flip flopped on this now? Isn't this exactly what I've been contending and you have been arguing against? If IIT receives any taxpayer money, then that is a subsized school. That would be like an office worker claiming their paycheck doesn't come from sales. Talk about looking silly. What rubbish. Is any organization that gets paid by the government to provide product for the government (such as Lockheed Martin for the F-22, or General Dynamics for the Abrams tank) getting a "subsidy"? I think not. State universities, OTOH, receive direct subsidies so the students' tuition cost is way below the actual cost of providing their education. Anyone who attended a state school had a taxpayer subsidized education.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #97 December 11, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote I DO have a problem with people who took from the system and then whine about giving back. Does that include the 'Less Fortunate'? It includes anyone who whines about paying their taxes. Would that include GA taxes/fees? Surely you're thinking of the airlines, trying to offload the cost of their operations onto GA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #98 December 12, 2007 Quote So now you are using adjectives as a noun? Here's a definition of Progressive when properly used as a noun" "continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease. " –noun Umm…that's a definition of progressive when used as an adjective as well. If your dictionary really says otherwise, you would be well advised to find another dictionary! Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #99 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote So now you are using adjectives as a noun? Here's a definition of Progressive when properly used as a noun" "continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease. " –noun Umm…that's a definition of progressive when used as an adjective as well. If your dictionary really says otherwise, you would be well advised to find another dictionary! Why should I? I like that definition just fine. I think it served my purpose well. BTW Dictionary.com, if you have a problem, consult them. . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #100 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote Quote FYI, contracts are not subsidies. So you've flip flopped on this now? Isn't this exactly what I've been contending and you have been arguing against? If IIT receives any taxpayer money, then that is a subsized school. That would be like an office worker claiming their paycheck doesn't come from sales. Talk about looking silly. What rubbish. Is any organization Individual that gets paid by the government to provide product or service for the government (such as Lockheed Martin for the F-22, or General Dynamics for the Abrams tank) getting a "subsidy"? or handout I think not. State universities, OTOH, receive direct subsidies so the students' tuition cost is way below the actual cost of providing their education. because their contract with the govt. stipulated this Anyone who attended a state school had a taxpayer subsidized education they earned by serving their country and in many cases risked their lives. I'll try one last time and then I'm done with you on this topic, since I suspect you see your inconsistency and simply don't want to admit it. The govt. offers people a "contract" to serve which includes an education benefit. When an individual considers service in the Military, they generally accept a lower pay scale than they could get in the private sector and puts many of their goals on hold so they can fulfill their desire to serve their country. Part of that "contract" includes an education benefit, medical benefits, housing allowance etc. When an individual accept the govts. offer, it is for the whole package. There is no handout. When the IIT, Boeing etc. accepts a govt. "contract" it specifies the entire package which may have a specific educational requirement, etc. but it is accepted as an entire package. What you are attempting to do is to claim that the educational benefit an individual is offered and accepts as part of the offer is something separate from the whole offer ie. a handout. Which it certainly is not. Both packages are tax payer subsidized because both contracts benefit the govt. ie. the people. I don't actually believe your compensation is a handout, I know you work hard for it and more power to you that you do. I simply suggested that in an attempt to make you see the fallacy of your claim that a benefit of a govt. contract isn't a handout. Thanks for playing. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
