billvon 3,120 #51 December 6, 2007 >If someone believes that mankind began when god created Adam and >Eve, then that's in conflict with the idea that mankind evolved from the >apes. You can't have both at the same time. Believing in god does not equal "believing that mankind began when god created Adam and Eve." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #52 December 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf someone believes that mankind began when god created Adam and Eve, then that's in conflict with the idea that mankind evolved from the apes. You can't have both at the same time. Did you read my post John? Which one? This one?: "Darwin's theory of the origin of species illuminates some of God's methods" Um, yeah, that's a lot of help... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #53 December 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf someone believes that mankind began when god created Adam and Eve, then that's in conflict with the idea that mankind evolved from the apes. You can't have both at the same time. Surely you realize that there are plenty of people who believe in god without believing the Adam and Eve story. How do those people think that mankind originated? Evolved from the primordial soup? If so, then that means that god is responsible for nothing more than the primordial soup. That wouldn't be much of an accomplishment for someone who can supposedly do anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #54 December 6, 2007 >How do those people think that mankind originated? You'd have to ask them. I know a few scientists who are devout catholics; they just don't believe that God created Adam and Eve. In general they adhere to what mainstream science says about evolutionary theory, planetary formation and abiogenesis. But that's just them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #55 December 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf someone believes that mankind began when god created Adam and Eve, then that's in conflict with the idea that mankind evolved from the apes. You can't have both at the same time. Did you read my post John? Which one? This one?: "Darwin's theory of the origin of species illuminates some of God's methods" Um, yeah, that's a lot of help... I think virtually any scientist who believes in God would tell you that that is the purpose of science- to illuminate some of God's methods. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #56 December 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf someone believes that mankind began when god created Adam and Eve, then that's in conflict with the idea that mankind evolved from the apes. You can't have both at the same time. Surely you realize that there are plenty of people who believe in god without believing the Adam and Eve story. How do those people think that mankind originated? I'm guessing that different people have widely different explanations for how mankind originated, just as different people have widely different definitions of "god." I believe there are quite a few who have decided that evolution is a process that "god" designed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 December 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf someone believes that mankind began when god created Adam and Eve, then that's in conflict with the idea that mankind evolved from the apes. You can't have both at the same time. Surely you realize that there are plenty of people who believe in god without believing the Adam and Eve story. How do those people think that mankind originated? Evolved from the primordial soup? If so, then that means that god is responsible for nothing more than the primordial soup. That wouldn't be much of an accomplishment for someone who can supposedly do anything. Surely you have more imagination than that. There are more than two options. That Adam and Eve were placed on this planet along with lots of fossils 6000 years ago is quite likely the least probable scenario for a God to have created earth. Far more reasonable to believe that a God seeded the planet with the building blocks to let life happen - a giant (from our frame of reference) petri disk. We do the same all the time. Basic science - set the conditions and see what happens. If you are immortal, you can wait a billion years. It seems less reasonable to think God did the big bang and then retired, but then again, I don't believe there was a being anyway. South Park's version - Earth is a reality show for the rest of the galaxy. Similar would be Earth is a created zoo. Douglas Adam's version - Earth was constructed as a giant organic computer to determine the question to the answer of life, the universe, everything. Two mice placed the order. Unfortunately, after running for eons, it was destoyed a few months too soon in order to build a galactic bypass, so no valid results. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #58 December 7, 2007 DOOOOODDDDD 42“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #59 December 7, 2007 Okay now, you Sir are making way too much sense for this forum. Git Da fook otta 'ere.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #60 December 7, 2007 QuoteShotgun: I'm guessing that different people have widely different explanations for how mankind originated, just as different people have widely different definitions of "god." I believe there are quite a few who have decided that evolution is a process that "god" designed. Kelpdiver: Far more reasonable to believe that a God seeded the planet with the building blocks to let life happen - a giant (from our frame of reference) petri disk. If mankind evolved from the primordial soup, then wouldn't that contradict the book of Genesis? Do these religious/evolution believers get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? Actually, reading Genesis right now, I can see the take for evolution with lines like; "And God said, let the water bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl..." That implies that they arose from the primordial soup. But then there's that pesky line; "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man... male and female created he them..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #61 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm guessing that different people have widely different explanations for how mankind originated, just as different people have widely different definitions of "god." I believe there are quite a few who have decided that evolution is a process that "god" designed. If mankind evolved from apes, and apes evolved from the primordial soup, then wouldn't that contradict the book of Genesis? Believing in god does not necessarily mean believing in the bible. QuoteDo they get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? Sure; I don't know of any law preventing them from doing so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #62 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteShotgun: I'm guessing that different people have widely different explanations for how mankind originated, just as different people have widely different definitions of "god." I believe there are quite a few who have decided that evolution is a process that "god" designed. Kelpdiver: Far more reasonable to believe that a God seeded the planet with the building blocks to let life happen - a giant (from our frame of reference) petri disk. If mankind evolved from the primordial soup, then wouldn't that contradict the book of Genesis? Do these religious/evolution believers get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? Actually, reading Genesis right now, I can see the take for evolution with lines like; "And God said, let the water bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl..." That implies that they arose from the primordial soup. But then there's that pesky line; "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man... male and female created he them..." we've been over this before. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #63 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteDo they get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? Sure; I don't know of any law preventing them from doing so. We aren't talking about "legal". I'm just saying that if they selectively pick and choose some parts, and disregard other parts they find inconvenient, then that has a significant negative impact on their credibility as believers, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #64 December 7, 2007 Quote we've been over this before. Yeah, but that's never stopped a repeat performance here. Can you advise me on what size canopy I should buy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #65 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm guessing that different people have widely different explanations for how mankind originated, just as different people have widely different definitions of "god." I believe there are quite a few who have decided that evolution is a process that "god" designed. If mankind evolved from apes, and apes evolved from the primordial soup, then wouldn't that contradict the book of Genesis? Believing in god does not necessarily mean believing in the bible. QuoteDo they get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? Sure; I don't know of any law preventing them from doing so. John: what part of (belief in god) ≠ (evangelical christian) dont you understand?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #66 December 7, 2007 Quote John: what part of (belief in god) ≠ (evangelical christian) dont you understand? This bit - "≠"Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #67 December 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteDo they get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? Sure; I don't know of any law preventing them from doing so. We aren't talking about "legal". I'm just saying that if they selectively pick and choose some parts, and disregard other parts they find inconvenient, then that has a significant negative impact on their credibility as believers, IMO. So this means all Protestants are non believers? (Lots of picking and choosing goes on in the various Christian sects, and let's not forget all the people who believe in a god outside the definitions of the King James Bible) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #68 December 7, 2007 Quote Quote John: what part of (belief in god) ≠ (evangelical christian) dont you understand? This bit - "≠" Try to imagine a = sign with / through it. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #69 December 7, 2007 >Do these religious/evolution believers get to pick and choose which >parts of the Bible they want to believe? Yep. And believe it or not, some people who believe in god don't believe in the Bible AT ALL! Everyone picks and chooses. Not even the most literal biblically based christian thinks all gays should be killed, or that US troops should kill everyone but the virgins in the towns they invade (so they can rape them, of course.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #70 December 8, 2007 --If mankind evolved from the primordial soup, then wouldn't that contradict the book of Genesis? Do these religious/evolution believers get to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe? No. But a lot of times it takes more than a casual reading to derive the meaning of a passage. ______________________________________ --Actually, reading Genesis right now, I can see the take for evolution with lines like; "And God said, let the water bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl..." That implies that they arose from the primordial soup. Good for you. ________________________________________ --But then there's that pesky line; "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man... male and female created he them. Genesis is a difficult book to understand . I don't believe it was ever meant to be a science text book. It was re-copied many times, so who knows how our current day versions compare to what was originally written. I feel the passage you quoted above was referring to the creation of what makes us unique, our souls. Our sinless, immortal, free will, self-consciousness was most likely created in the image of God, not our bodies. Our bodies were formed at a later time with materials already present on the earth and combined with the soul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kschilk 0 #71 December 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteCatholics don't have hell. They do too. They have: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, and Limbo Can't get much lower than Limbo. I had no idea that dance had religious significance!"T'was ever thus." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #72 December 8, 2007 First I want to say that it is absolutely unacceptable that they set reincarnation on the same level as ghosts and UFOs. I do not believe in it but that just denounced the religion of more than a billion people… And second: Yes believing in god AND evolution does NOT work if you apply science. You have to choose either to believe in god and accept everything as the bible says because god created the bible or you choose not to. There can’t be a middle way because you either choose to ignore science or to accept it. You can not choose to just apply science where you like to. And to the whole extremist thing: I completely agree that there are grey zones in things like politics, but there are none in science. In science something is either true or untrue. There is no middle way between those two. To this statement: So the bounds of your being are defined by the limitations of manmade science? Do you have an imagination? No it’s the other way. Science is defined by what really exists. Science explains it and does not define it. Just because we can’t explain it doesn’t mean that there is no explanation. Do you have any self-doubt? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #73 December 8, 2007 >You have to choose either to believe in god and accept everything > as the bible says because god created the bible . . . Uh, no, you don't. God didn't create any Bibles; printing presses do that. Nor did God write the Bible; men did that. It has some very archaic and dated stuff in there that's far more applicable as a "this is the history of the Jewish people" than as "you really should kill all gays." >In science something is either true or untrue. There is no middle way >between those two. Is a photon a particle or a wave? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #74 December 8, 2007 QuoteFirst I want to say that it is absolutely unacceptable that they set reincarnation on the same level as ghosts and UFOs. I do not believe in it but that just denounced the religion of more than a billion people… Rubbish is rubbish regardless of how many people believe it. Reincarnation IS on the same level as UFOs and ghosts - rubbish.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #75 December 8, 2007 Do the Evolution http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-9c8Z1oOc I am ahead, I am a man. I am the first mammal to wear pants. I'm at peace with my lust I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah It's evolution, baby I'm a beast, I'm the man Buying stocks on the day of the crash On the loose, I'm a truck All the rolling hills I'll flatten em out, yeah It's herd behavior. It's evolution, baby Admire me, admire my home Admire my son, he's my clone Yeah, yeah, yeah This land is mine, this land is free I'll do what I want but irresponsibly It's evolution, baby I'm a thief, I'm a liar Here's my church, I sing in the choir: Hallelujah, halleujah Admire me, admire my home Admire my sons, admire my clones An appetite for a nightly feast Those ignorant Indians got nothin' on me Nothin', why? Because, it's evolution, baby! I am ahead, I am advanced I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher Twenty ten watch it go to fire, It's evolution, baby It's evolution, baby Do the evolution Come on, come on, come on"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
