Illegal Immigrants

[JohnRich 4]

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You can do that for school and welfare, but not hospitals. No US hospital is ever going to let a little girl die in the street because no one can find her ID. Which means they will treat any emergent case that comes through their doors (which is how it should be.)

The problem is that illegal immigrants use emergency rooms for routine doctor visits, and the rest of us pay for that too. One movie I saw recently on the border issue said that 38 California hospitals have had to shut down because of the unfunded cost of treating illegal and uninsured immigrants. So those of us who live here legally are left with higher costs for medical care, and fewer places to receive it.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Why don't you guys start within our own sport? I am willing to bet that most large southern dropzones have quite a few illegals residing or working on them.

I suggest you contact your DZO and have him verify that your dropzone is illegal free.....I mean many seem to be very passionate about this....

[lawrocket 3]

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The problem is that illegal immigrants use emergency rooms for routine doctor visits, and the rest of us pay for that too. One movie I saw recently on the border issue said that 38 California hospitals have had to shut down because of the unfunded cost of treating illegal and uninsured immigrants. So those of us who live here legally are left with higher costs for medical care, and fewer places to receive it.

This is NOT the fault of illegals! I will repeat, this is NOT the fault of illegals. The fact is that there is a mandate by the federal government that any ER receiving medicare funding shall perform and assessment and stabilize all persons who come in for treatment.

They are usually passed off to the county.

Also, please note that it is NOT just illegals and uninsured illegals. It is EVERYONE who comes in without money or insurance. The homeless guy with esophageal varices. The inner city kid who just took a shotgun blast to the leg. The uninsured infant facing some illness. The uninsured young professional in a car wreck. The college kid who went bare. And even the skydiver who chose to pay for more jump tickets instead of insurance who made a low turn.

It's everyone, and to blame it on illegals (admittedly, a large portion of them in this state) is not takign the big picture. Instead, we should blame a system and rules that are so easily abused.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[n23x 0]

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The problem is that illegal immigrants use emergency rooms for routine doctor visits...

Care to provide some data to back this up?

I don't doubt uninsured people use hospitals all the time. I do question how often it's uninsured-illegal immigrants as opposed to uninsured-everybody else.

edited to add: And in response to any article you post, you should know I'm going to ask: And how were they able to identify the patient as an illegal immigrant, rather than the guy that came in and gave his name as john somebody with the address of 123 fake street? Find an article that resolves this issue as well, please.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[nathaniel 0]

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Care to provide some data to back this up?

Of course not, the data speaks the opposite: illegals consume healthcare services such as emergency hospitals at much lower rates than citizens.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immigrants27nov27,0,3788600.story?coll=la-tot-callocal&track=ntothtml

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Illegal immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries are 50% less likely than U.S.-born Latinos to use hospital emergency rooms in California, according to a study published Monday in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine.

Those illegal sympathizers at the Archives of Internal Medicine...

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[lawrocket 3]

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The problem is that illegal immigrants use emergency rooms for routine doctor visits...

Care to provide some data to back this up?

I don't doubt uninsured people use hospitals all the time. I do question how often it's uninsured-illegal immigrants as opposed to uninsured-everybody else.

.jim

I can report that it is a persistent problem here.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[JohnRich 4]

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illegals consume healthcare services such as emergency hospitals at much lower rates than citizens...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immigrants27nov27,0,3788600.story?coll=la-tot-callocal&track=ntothtml

Other quotes from that article:

In Los Angeles County... hospital emergency rooms... Ten have closed in the last five years, citing losses from treating the uninsured, and those that remain open are notorious for backlogs. (Exactly the point I just made.)

Cost estimates vary widely. A Rand Corp. study published last year in the journal Health Affairs put the cost of healthcare for illegal immigrants nationwide at $1.1 billion a year, excluding care for those younger than 18 and older than 64.

FAIR called the Rand number a "low-ball" estimate. Its own study of healthcare costs of illegal immigrants and their dependents, including U.S.-born children, estimated California's portion alone to be about $1.5 billion a year.

Even if their rate of usage is lower, they're still using resources that American tax-payers are paying for. Just because their usage rate may be lower, doesn't make it okay. If you think otherwise, you're welcome to fork over $1.5 billion yourself to help California out for a year.

[pop 0]

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Speeding up the process would be a good start. Making people who follow the rules wait years (over 4 years for one person I know who already has his work permit) is just ABSURD.

Another would be to eliminate the stupid questions:
"Did you come here with the intent of overthrowing the government of the United States by force" was one question I was asked at my interview. My wife was asked if she intended to become a prostitute.

Yes, this is the government that people think can actually deport illegals. I know how truly stupid the government can be. It took four years for one guy. They'll ask ridiculous questions. And this is for people getting in.

Imagine the difficulties in getting them OUT.

Much like nobody is good enough that skydiving cannot kill them, there is no government program that the government cannot screw up mightily.

One option is setting a high fine on an employer caught hiring illegals, and forcing the employer to pay for the plane ticket. Once the employers catch on that its not profitable to hire people who break our laws, the job opportunities will minimize for illegals, and they will not come here in such high numbers.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[wmw999 2,567]

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We only need to concentrate assets on the most common routes used for infiltration. As those routes shift to avoid capture, so do our assets.

If our assets shift, isn't it possible that potential illegal immigrants will go back to those (more hospitable) routes again?

We're talking about people who are desperate enough to improve their lot to leave their families, indebt themselves to the tune of a year's wage or more, and walk across desert with a single gallon of water and some food, just to make it into the US.

It's that whole ounce of prevention/pound of cure thing. The ounce of prevention can give you the feeling that you might not have needed it, but it's generally cheaper than the pound of cure that you know you now need.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[n23x 0]

Here's what I don't get:

A common argument used is that "the illegals are taking up our hospital resources"! Yet, I see little to no comparative data to suggest that it really is "illegals" as opposed to BillyJoBob who was too busy cooking up some meth to get health insurance (obviously, I'm being facetious ). Note, I'm generally not complaining about people who can't financially afford health insurance, I'm complaining about those that take advantage of it that aren't illegal immigrants.

If there's no method to determine that, say, 59% of hospital no-pays were contributed to illegal immigrants, you can't really make that argument. (ok, ok, you probably can, you're a lawyer!

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I can report that it is a persistent problem here.

I'd certainly be willing to consider a reasonable response in lieu of physical numbers, if you are willing to qualify that remark.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[pop 0]

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The problem is that illegal immigrants use emergency rooms for routine doctor visits...

Care to provide some data to back this up?

I don't doubt uninsured people use hospitals all the time. I do question how often it's uninsured-illegal immigrants as opposed to uninsured-everybody else.

edited to add: And in response to any article you post, you should know I'm going to ask: And how were they able to identify the patient as an illegal immigrant, rather than the guy that came in and gave his name as john somebody with the address of 123 fake street? Find an article that resolves this issue as well, please.

.jim

It doesnt matter how often. The point is it should be never. Hospitals already have enough problems dealing with uninsured legals and citizens. The illegals who do it add to an existing problem. Whether they do it 5000 times a year or 5000000 times per year doesnt matter, since its an addition to an existing problem. Ideally it shuold be 0.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[n23x 0]

If we agree that all people uninsured are taxing to hospitals, then I agree.

From a general point of view, I see both groups to be a social burden (which is ok, and expected) but the fact that they're "illegal" makes little difference to me.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[JohnRich 4]

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We only need to concentrate assets on the most common routes used for infiltration. As those routes shift to avoid capture, so do our assets.

If our assets shift, isn't it possible that potential illegal immigrants will go back to those (more hospitable) routes again?

You put out sensors and/or watchers. When people are detected, you move reaction teams to those locations. Pretty simple.

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It's that whole ounce of prevention/pound of cure thing. The ounce of prevention can give you the feeling that you might not have needed it, but it's generally cheaper than the pound of cure that you know you now need.

It's time for you to pony-up with the details on the "ounce of prevention" that you propose. Move more American industry to Mexico, biting off our nose to spite our face? Pump billions of dollars into the corrupt Mexican government? No thanks.

Maybe we could do aerial spraying of grass seed over millions of acres of Mexican land, and then pay them $5 per hour to mow and trim their own grass.

[masterrig 1]

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Why don't you guys start within our own sport? I am willing to bet that most large southern dropzones have quite a few illegals residing or working on them.

I suggest you contact your DZO and have him verify that your dropzone is illegal free.....I mean many seem to be very passionate about this....

That'd probably go over like a fart in church but, you have a real good point!
I wanted to add: It really isn't that easy. The town I lived in before we moved, down the block from our old house, was a 'multi dwelling'. We were zoned 'only' single dwelling homes. This multi dwelling changed residents on an average of every 3-5 days. I informed Immigration about it and they informed me that they were "Busy enough with the work we have now!" I also informed the city zoning board of the 'multi dwelling' and they would do nothing about it either.

Chuck

[popsjumper 2]

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...Maybe we could do aerial spraying of grass seed over millions of acres of Mexican land, and then pay them $5 per hour to mow and trim their own grass.

OMG, John...just OMG.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Richards 0]

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It's time for you to pony-up with the details on the "ounce of prevention" that you propose. Move more American industry to Mexico, biting off our nose to spite our face? Pump billions of dollars into the corrupt Mexican government? No thanks.

Maybe we could do aerial spraying of grass seed over millions of acres of Mexican land, and then pay them $5 per hour to mow and trim their own grass.

[misaltas 0]

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This country, whether you believe it or not, cannot take the strain of millions and millions of Mexican, Central Americans and South Americans.

I do believe it.

I also agree others shouldn't put words into your mouth, so don't mine.

Of course we need to protect our sovereignty. If not, then we don't have a country.

All I said is that fences and employer prosecutions alone won't stop what has naturally gone on for millennia. Doesn't mean we shouldn't use those tools too. I'm just saying that until the mexican economy improves drastically, there will always be folks coming north no matter what else we do.

Calmly analyzing the problem and solving it logically is going to work much better than getting all emotionally worked up about it. I don't mean you necessarily, because I actually agree with much of what you've said here.

I also didn't say it's up to Americans to fix Mexico.

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[SpeedRacer 1]

LEGALIZE MARIJUANA.

We can grow great shit here in the US of A.

Use the money we save (from ending the idiotic war on pot) to protect our borders.

UNDERCUT the cash flowing into the gangster's pockets, save money on stupid police/court/prison costs, devote the savings to protecting AMERICA!






.....oh sorry, is that just crazy talk?



woops, I'm sorry ossifer, it must be the alcohol talking. I'll just go home peacefully now.

Speed Racer
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[kelpdiver 2]

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Even if their rate of usage is lower, they're still using resources that American tax-payers are paying for. Just because their usage rate may be lower, doesn't make it okay. If you think otherwise, you're welcome to fork over $1.5 billion yourself to help California out for a year.

I have little doubt that illegal aliens represent some chunk of the uninsured costs at hospitals. But...what is your alternative plan? Leave em to die in the parking lot? Bill pointed out how that's not going to work. Treat them and then deport them? Then people don't come in at all, and that will have its own consequences (esp with contageous diseases like tuberculosis which are more common in the 3rd world)

You gotta come up with solutions when you make this complaint. It doesn't have an obvious one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Unless you like the idea of the United States looking like Mexico City or Hong Kong!

...until the debate gets framed by rhetoric like this. Intended or not, this leaves the impression that the US looking like London, or Paris, or Frankfurt is somehow more palatable. And of course, we're not really talking about what the cities look like, we're talking about what their residents look like.

Bullshit. Mexico City is an environmental disaster, with some serious overpopulation concerns mixed in. Know any other countries where cars only get to drive a day a week? It's not close to Paris or London (nor are most cities in the US).

HK, Shanghai, otoh, are not bad, but the ratio of super modern to impoverished areas is still a bit on the wrong side.

Yeah, you were out of line making it a 'brown' issue.

[masterrig 1]

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This country, whether you believe it or not, cannot take the strain of millions and millions of Mexican, Central Americans and South Americans.

I do believe it.

I also agree others shouldn't put words into your mouth, so don't mine.

Of course we need to protect our sovereignty. If not, then we don't have a country.

All I said is that fences and employer prosecutions alone won't stop what has naturally gone on for millennia. Doesn't mean we shouldn't use those tools too. I'm just saying that until the mexican economy improves drastically, there will always be folks coming north no matter what else we do.

Calmly analyzing the problem and solving it logically is going to work much better than getting all emotionally worked up about it. I don't mean you necessarily, because I actually agree with much of what you've said here.

I also didn't say it's up to Americans to fix Mexico.

I can see what you are saying and I agree. The Mexican govt. needs to step-up and start doing something for their own country. We in the United States, have enough to worry about without having to take all their poor people. What's really sad is, how their government is capitalizing off the illegals.
You're right about the fences, too. Have you seen what those fences look like? There's holes in them big enough to drive a truck through.
We have to vote-in, those politicians in our country, who are willing to stand-up and do something about the problem. Seems like all we have are politicians who 'sympathize' hoping for the votes.
Granted, it has become an emotional problem and you are correct about keeping a cool head about it. In re-reading my response to you, I can see where that 'emotion' reared it's head. I apologise.
We the people of the United States, do have a voice. Just like we voice our opinions here, we can do the same with our politicians. They advertize e-mail sites and they have mailboxes. We just need to get busy.


Chuck

[nathaniel 0]

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you're welcome to fork over $1.5 billion yourself to help California out for a year.

Roffle.

OK I'll pay for the health care after you pay for the border fence, sensors, watchmen, and the billions lost to economic inefficiencies thus created.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Andy9o8 2]

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you were out of line making it a 'brown' issue.

Was not.

[masterrig 1]

Yeah, you were out of line making it a 'brown' issue.

When folks on the 'other side' got nothing else... zing! Here comes the race card!


Chuck

[n23x 0]

Don't mistake "pointing out the fact that some people sounded like a bunch of racist country bumpkins" for "having nothing else to debate about".

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC