Is this a joke? WTF?

[Gene03 0]

Wounded Soldier: Military Wants Part Of Bonus Back
Marty Griffin
PITTSBURGH (KDKA)

The U.S. Military is demanding that thousands of wounded service personnel give back signing bonuses because they are unable to serve out their commitments.
To get people to sign up, the military gives enlistment bonuses up to $30,000 in some cases.
Now men and women who have lost arms, legs, eyesight, hearing and can no longer serve are being ordered to pay some of that money back.
One of them is Jordan Fox, a young soldier from the South Hills.
He finds solace in the hundreds of boxes he loads onto a truck in Carnegie. In each box is a care package that will be sent to a man or woman serving in Iraq. It was in his name Operation Pittsburgh Pride was started.
Fox was seriously injured when a roadside bomb blew up his vehicle. He was knocked unconscious. His back was injured and lost all vision in his right eye.
A few months later Fox was sent home. His injuries prohibited him from fulfilling three months of his commitment. A few days ago, he received a letter from the military demanding nearly $3,000 of his signing bonus back.
"I tried to do my best and serve my country. I was unfortunately hurt in the process. Now they're telling me they want their money back," he explained.
It's a slap for Fox's mother, Susan Wardezak, who met with President Bush in Pittsburgh last May. He thanked her for starting Operation Pittsburgh Pride which has sent approximately 4,000 care packages.
He then sent her a letter expressing his concern over her son's injuries, so she cannot understand the U.S. Government's apparent lack of concern over injuries to countless U.S. Soldiers and demands that they return their bonuses.
While he's unsure of his future, Fox says he's unwavering in his commitment to his country.
"I'd do it all over again... because I'm proud of the discipline that I learned. I'm proud to have done something for my country," he said.
But Fox feels like he's already given enough. He'll never be able to pursue his dream of being a police officer because of his wounds and he can't believe he's being asked to return part of his $10,000 signing bonus.
KDKA contacted Congressman Jason Altmire on his behalf. He says he has proposed a bill that would guarantee soldiers receive full benefit of bonuses.

(MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

WHAT THE FUCK, OVER.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[freethefly 6]

That's not all that is wrong. A lawsuit had to be filed for benefits.
Iraq veterans sue government over health-benefits delays
Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:40 AM
By Hope Yen

ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON -- Frustrated by delays in health care, injured Iraq war veterans accused VA Secretary Jim Nicholson in a lawsuit of breaking the law by denying them disability pay and mental-health treatment.

The lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, filed yesterday in federal court in San Francisco, seeks broad changes in the agency as it struggles to meet growing demands from veterans returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Suing on behalf of hundreds of thousands of veterans, it charges that the VA failed to provide prompt disability benefits, add staff to reduce wait times and boost services for post-traumatic stress disorder.

The lawsuit also accuses the VA of deliberately cheating some veterans by allegedly working with the Pentagon to misclassify post-traumatic stress disorder claims as pre-existing personality disorders to avoid paying benefits. The VA and Pentagon have denied such charges.

"When one of our combat veterans walks into a VA hospital, then they must see a doctor that day," said Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, which filed the lawsuit. "When a war veteran needs disability benefits because he or she can't work, then they must get a disability check in a few weeks.

"The VA has betrayed our veterans," Sullivan said.

VA spokesman Matt Smith said yesterday that he could not comment on a pending lawsuit.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Gene03 0]

I'm wondering if the military has a fulfillment clause in the re-enlistment contracts?
That would make it "legal", but still unjust IMO.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[Amazon 7]

I think this just goes to show how HOLLOW all those "we support our troops... or THANK YOU for your service" homilies really are to those in this administration.

They never served.. the dont give a shit.

[Richards 0]

Even if one were to put aside the moral wrongness of doing this (and it is disgusting), it is still stupid. It's not as though this war and administration have popularity points they can spare. This is not going to entice people to want to serve or continue supporting the government.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[freethefly 6]

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I'm wondering if the military has a fulfillment clause in the re-enlistment contracts?
That would make it "legal", but still unjust IMO.

I doubt anyone ever reads the fine print. Seems one should hire an agent before consideration of re-enlistment.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Lucky... 0]

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I think this just goes to show how HOLLOW all those "we support our troops... or THANK YOU for your service" homilies really are to those in this administration.

They never served.. the dont give a shit.

BINGO..... and the poor young dummies who buy into it in really good faith.

[Lucky... 0]

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I'm wondering if the military has a fulfillment clause in the re-enlistment contracts?
That would make it "legal", but still unjust IMO.

I doubt anyone ever reads the fine print. Seems one should hire an agent before consideration of re-enlistment.

What's pathetic is the swearing-in process where a young prospect swears to uphold teh US Constitution when he/she:

1) Likely has but a vague clue as to what it is, if any at all

2) Loses most of those rights in exchange for the UCMJ

Gotta cut this short, I hard they're having a fire sale on US flags... gotta beat the rush

[nanook 1]

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I'm wondering if the military has a fulfillment clause in the re-enlistment contracts?
That would make it "legal", but still unjust IMO.

I doubt anyone ever reads the fine print. Seems one should hire an agent before consideration of re-enlistment.

Yes we do. The fine print is quite simple (for reenlistment bonuses). If we can't finish up the time for whatever reason, we pay back, or DFAS stops payment, of our bonuses. In the Navy, we get our bonus in installments. If we are able to fullfill half our contract, then we are only allowed to collect half the bonus and owe the rest back.

In another case, we were able get rid of a complete dirtbag worthless POS. When he was kicked out for having too many Physical Readiness failures (Food for freedom program), The DOD took all his separation pays to get their Reenlistment bonus back. He left the Navy with 300 dollars to his name.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[freethefly 6]

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I'm wondering if the military has a fulfillment clause in the re-enlistment contracts?
That would make it "legal", but still unjust IMO.

I doubt anyone ever reads the fine print. Seems one should hire an agent before consideration of re-enlistment.

Yes we do. The fine print is quite simple (for reenlistment bonuses). If we can't finish up the time for whatever reason, we pay back, or DFAS stops payment, of our bonuses. In the Navy, we get our bonus in installments. If we are able to fullfill half our contract, then we are only allowed to collect half the bonus and owe the rest back.

In another case, we were able get rid of a complete dirtbag worthless POS. When he was kicked out for having too many Physical Readiness failures (Food for freedom program), The DOD took all his separation pays to get their Reenlistment bonus back. He left the Navy with 300 dollars to his name.

Does the wording apply to those injured in the line of duty?
My rating as an HT2 in 84 was getting $40,000.00 for a six year re-up. It was spread out over the full six. I refused it and got out. Made much more as a civilian in the NDT field.
I understand taking the money back if one is ousted for criminal reason or an off the job injury (motorcycle, skydiving, rock climbing...)but, for an injury recieved during combat... that is entirely wrong.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[matthewcline 0]

I guess blaming the President of the current Admin makes sense for a LONG standing DOD policy.

It sounds like a computer program form letter that was not screened very well.

But if a person did re-up for a period of years and didn't finish it would make sense on one hand that the remaining years bonus not be paid. They should how ever be given full benefits for care with out a bit of delay.

If the program saw a discharge and a time remaining it would send the letter out automatically. Some one needs to look a those better, at the human level, at "OUR" level in the system and screen them better.

"OUR" is the men and women of the VA and DOD who are taking the heat for the failure of the current and previous Admins/Congress in giving the proper tools to do the job.

Before I posted I went back and looked at my 21 years worth of contracts, each has a clause about failing to fulfill not getting the remaining bonus. To me that makes sense. In death the bonus stops and the family gets the survivor benefits (a whole other patheticly low ball of wax).

I feel for the kid and he should get his 3k back and some one should say they are sorry, but I understand the over sight as bad as it sucks.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[nanook 1]

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I'm wondering if the military has a fulfillment clause in the re-enlistment contracts?
That would make it "legal", but still unjust IMO.

I doubt anyone ever reads the fine print. Seems one should hire an agent before consideration of re-enlistment.

Yes we do. The fine print is quite simple (for reenlistment bonuses). If we can't finish up the time for whatever reason, we pay back, or DFAS stops payment, of our bonuses. In the Navy, we get our bonus in installments. If we are able to fullfill half our contract, then we are only allowed to collect half the bonus and owe the rest back.

In another case, we were able get rid of a complete dirtbag worthless POS. When he was kicked out for having too many Physical Readiness failures (Food for freedom program), The DOD took all his separation pays to get their Reenlistment bonus back. He left the Navy with 300 dollars to his name.

Does the wording apply to those injured in the line of duty?
My rating as an HT2 in 84 was getting $40,000.00 for a six year re-up. It was spread out over the full six. I refused it and got out. Made much more as a civilian in the NDT field.
I understand taking the money back if one is ousted for criminal reason or an off the job injury (motorcycle, skydiving, rock climbing...)but, for an injury recieved during combat... that is entirely wrong.

They will only stop future payments. They will not ask for money back for off duty injuries (skydiving base jumping ect. . .) But I believe the pay stops only because you are moved from active duty to veteran status.

I wonder if the pay was asked back because someone at DFAS didn't stop the payment after the soldiers were released from active duty.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[freethefly 6]

I could only imagine that when these regs were written that this unfornute outcome wasn't considered. A lot of these guys have a hard way to go and need every dime they have and can get.
Injury recieved on the job (combat, normal duty) should exempt them from the payback clause.
I hope someone in congress sees fit to correct this and give the injured vets everything they deserve.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Amazon 7]

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I guess blaming the President of the current Admin makes sense for a LONG standing DOD policy.

DUDE everyone in the military hated Clinton because he was doing the right thing in downsizing the military after the collapse of the Soviet Union....I know it sucked.. but I was in the military during and after The South East Asian War Games. I got to experience first hand how wonderful the VA was

But Bushie.. is SUPPOSED to be a big supporter of the military.. but I guess that only stretches to the BIG BUCK ITEMS that his supporters in the Mil-Industiral Complex supply or want to research so they can supply it in the future.... cause it sure has not extended to how our troops are supplied or how they have been treated AFTER they went.. and came home broken.
If they really gave a shit.. things like this would not be happening to wounded vets...

Then again if they really gave a shit about the troops.. they would have actually gone after The people who really attacked us rahter than going after a country that did NOT attack us.. and did not even have the ability to do so.. BUT... the friends of the Administration sure have done quite well.... from our War President

[Lucky... 0]

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I guess blaming the President of the current Admin makes sense for a LONG standing DOD policy.

DUDE everyone in the military hated Clinton because he was doing the right thing in downsizing the military after the collapse of the Soviet Union....I know it sucked.. but I was in the military during and after The South East Asian War Games. I got to experience first hand how wonderful the VA was

But Bushie.. is SUPPOSED to be a big supporter of the military.. but I guess that only stretches to the BIG BUCK ITEMS that his supporters in the Mil-Industiral Complex supply or want to research so they can supply it in the future.... cause it sure has not extended to how our troops are supplied or how they have been treated AFTER they went.. and came home broken.
If they really gave a shit.. things like this would not be happening to wounded vets...

Then again if they really gave a shit about the troops.. they would have actually gone after The people who really attacked us rahter than going after a country that did NOT attack us.. and did not even have the ability to do so.. BUT... the friends of the Administration sure have done quite well.... from our War President

The myth is that Clinton cut the military and no one else did. GW Bush cut about the same # of troops in 1/2 the time, so that doubles the rate. When you talk to pathetic Repub drones they can't fathom that the military needed to be downsized about the time when Ronnie trippled the debt.

Speaking of the pig Reagan, his pay raises were considerably lower than Clinton's, and he carried the false reputation of a guy who loved the military. These facades run deep and the garbage that continues to perpetuate and support it will find some way to rationalize it.

[lawrocket 3]

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injured Iraq war veterans accused VA Secretary Jim Nicholson in a lawsuit of breaking the law by denying them disability pay and mental-health treatment.

The lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, filed yesterday in federal court in San Francisco, seeks broad changes in the agency as it struggles to meet growing demands from veterans returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Suing on behalf of hundreds of thousands of veterans, it charges that the VA failed to provide prompt disability benefits, add staff to reduce wait times and boost services for post-traumatic stress disorder.

Here's another quote:

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The veteran’s medical system provides a perfect example of a fully automated health information system that supports the needs of patients, clinicians and administrators. Its computerized patient record system contains every detail of a patient’s health record including laboratory test results, medical images, barcode medication administration, progress notes and appointments, all accessible from anywhere within the VA system... the VA not only has become one of the health care industry’s best quality performers, it has done so while spending less on each patient. Health care spending per capita averages, as I said, over $6,300 in the U.S. At the VA, however, the per patient cost is $5,000 and 20-percent lower than the national average, even though the average age of a VA patient is 60.

Hillary Rodham Clinton, May 24, 2007.

It seems that VA level care is the ideal for some...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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It seems that VA level care is the ideal for some...

It certainly is better than having NOTHING as so many Americans currently have... you seem to forget that part.