pirana 0 #201 December 12, 2007 QuoteNice history lesson. I was referring to the conversion of Constantine, the Roman Emperor ( 306-337CE), in 312 and his subsequent declaration of Christianity as the official faith of the Roman Empire. Official. OK, I'll buy that. BTW, not being condescending. Just think it is good to share, and guessing that not everyone knows." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #202 December 12, 2007 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To know requires proof To believe requires evidence To have faith requires neither. If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again I like the variant on this where the last line goes something like: For good people to really fuck up requires religion." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #203 December 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteNice history lesson. I was referring to the conversion of Constantine, the Roman Emperor ( 306-337CE), in 312 and his subsequent declaration of Christianity as the official faith of the Roman Empire. Official. OK, I'll buy that. BTW, not being condescending. Just think it is good to share, and guessing that not everyone knows. Didn't Constantine "convert" merely as part of his power stuggle with the Maxentians and Maximinus? I don't think there's any evidence that he was actually a believer in anything except his own political interests.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #204 December 12, 2007 Quote]either/or debates between religion and atheism obscure the truly interesting interplay between faith and other forms of knowledge that is unfolding today. Faith and other forms of knowledge?! How is faith a form of knowledge? It's not even a best guess. Quoteinterplay between Hindu spirituality and the insights of physics in his life and thought. The interplay between theoretical physics and Hindu spirituality exists solely in the mind of the individual. I think trying to hook physics and spirituality together like this is a basically just a barely amusing conicidence. It's like saying astrology and astronomy are flip sides of the same coin. Erm... no, not even close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #205 December 12, 2007 QuoteThanks for the reply. As for me, the answer remains the same. I have satisfied in my own mind and heart where the truth is. Along the journey I have looked at other faiths but clearly not every faith under the sun. But you get to a point where you are faced with a decision. Christ said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." So at this point one needs to make a choice as in effect the statement excludes other religions as the way to God. It only excludes other religions if you've prejudged those other religions and already come to the conclusion that Christianity is correct. I daresay any number of other faiths have clauses about their monopoly on truth... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #206 December 12, 2007 QuoteQuote --That can be said of any religion. How does it affect whether Christianity is true? For the ones who can understand their spiritual need, and experience the fulfillment of the message of Christ; they have no doubt of the truthfulness of Christianity. . That can be said of any religion. How does it affect whether Christianity is true?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #207 December 12, 2007 Quote interplay between Hindu spirituality and the insights of physics in his life and thought. The interplay between theoretical physics and Hindu spirituality exists solely in the mind of the individual. I think trying to hook physics and spirituality together like this is a basically just a barely amusing conicidence. It's like saying astrology and astronomy are flip sides of the same coin. Erm... no, not even close. The portion of your response that I bolded above is largely the point of Raman's message. Concur w/your assertion on an astrology-astronomy analogy; that is, however, a straw man in this context. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #208 December 12, 2007 QuoteThe interplay between theoretical physics and Hindu spirituality exists solely in the mind of the individual. I think trying to hook physics and spirituality together like this is a basically just a barely amusing conicidence. It's like saying astrology and astronomy are flip sides of the same coin. Erm... no, not even close. I think some of the similarities are fairly obvious (and quite interesting). However, it is important to note that the similarities involve the explanations from Physics, not the theories (aka mathematical models) from Physics. To quote Fritjof Capra, "the map is not the territory."Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #209 December 12, 2007 Quote I think some of the similarities are fairly obvious (and quite interesting). However, it is important to note that the similarities involve the explanations from Physics, not the theories (aka mathematical models) from Physics. To quote Fritjof Capra, "the map is not the territory." I think that in order to extract any similarity you need to take such a tortuous understanding of the physics that any comparison is totally invalid. It's like saying this tiny bit of a contour map of Switzerland is similar to SpongeBob SquarePants. You have to get down really low and squint and even then... whoopdeefookindoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #210 December 12, 2007 Quote I think that in order to extract any similarity you need to take such a tortuous understanding of the physics that any comparison is totally invalid. I disagree completely. Many of the similarities are fairly obvious. Quote It's like saying this tiny bit of a contour map of Switzerland is similar to SpongeBob SquarePants. You have to get down really low and squint and even then... whoopdeefookindoo It's nothing like saying that. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #211 December 12, 2007 QuoteI disagree completely. Many of the similarities are fairly obvious. Please feel free to give examples of these obvious similarities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #212 December 12, 2007 QuotePlease feel free to give examples of these obvious similarities. The duality concept in religion, most often of the masculine and feminine energies, in comparison to the dual nature (particle/wave) of light is but one obvious example. Sorry, off the top of my head I can't remember the Hindu name for the duality concept, but Taoism refers to it as yin and yang.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #213 December 12, 2007 What, that's it? I stand by my SpongeBob analogy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #214 December 12, 2007 You can imagine all kinds of similiaritys, but that's all they are, imagined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #215 December 12, 2007 QuoteWhat, that's it? If you want more read a book by a theoretical physicist on the subject. QuoteI stand by my SpongeBob analogy. And it will be just as non-applicable as before. Why is it so hard to imagine that modern descriptions of the world around us might share similarities to ancient descriptions of the world around us? Does the post renaissance west have some sort of corner on knowledge and observation?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #216 December 12, 2007 QuoteYou can imagine all kinds of similiaritys, but that's all they are, imagined. Everything in the world is imagined. Do you think a rock is really solid? Do you think you see things as they actually are? Do you really believe that it is possible to experience now? When are our imaginings reality and when are they not? All we have are our explanations, and they serve us no better (or worse) than they did the prisoners in Plato's cave.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #217 December 12, 2007 QuoteWhy is it so hard to imagine that modern descriptions of the world around us might share similarities to ancient descriptions of the world around us? In your example, the 'similarities' are like a sheep is similar to a cloud - both look white and fluffy. Beyond that they're really not.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #218 December 12, 2007 QuoteIn your example, the 'similarities' are like a sheep is similar to a cloud - both look white and fluffy. Beyond that they're really not. You will notice that I previously emphasized that it is scientific explanations, and not theories, that share similarities with eastern religions.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #219 December 12, 2007 QuoteDo you think a rock is really solid? Come on down to Texas and let me throw a rock at you. Remeber it's only imagined solid. BTW that pain is only in your imagination. QuoteDo you think you see things as they actually are? Let me shine a big bright light in your eyes. Don't worry you aren't really seeing it your imagining it, so it really doesn't hurt, your imagining the pain. This philosophy is fun. Why don't you come on over so I can hit you over the head with an imagined baseball bat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #220 December 12, 2007 QuoteIf you want more read a book by a theoretical physicist on the subject. <-- theoretical physicist QuoteWhy is it so hard to imagine that modern descriptions of the world around us might share similarities to ancient descriptions of the world around us? Does the post renaissance west have some sort of corner on knowledge and observation? It's not hard to imagine, it's hard to take seriously. I mean Italy is similar to a boot. Except it's not. The shape of Italy on a map is a bit boot shaped but Italy itself is nothing like a boot. Thinking of Italy it terms of boots will get you precisely nowhere. I bet you'll hate that analogy too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #221 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote Do you think a rock is really solid? Come on down to Texas and let me throw a rock at you. Remeber it's only imagined solid. BTW that pain is only in your imagination. Quote Do you think you see things as they actually are? Let me shine a big bright light in your eyes. Don't worry you aren't really seeing it your imagining it, so it really doesn't hurt, your imagining the pain. This philosophy is fun. Why don't you come on over so I can hit you over the head with an imagined baseball bat. There's nothing like mindless banter in absence of a valid point. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #222 December 12, 2007 QuoteI bet you'll hate that analogy too. Yes, I'm not a fan of non-sensical analogies. Quote<-- theoretical physicist Then you should be able to follow the reasoning of your peers.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #223 December 12, 2007 I think your imagined similaritys are pretty worthless and would be different for each person imagining the similaritys. Such subjective observations are pretty useless. So what if you find similaritys between religion and whatever. How is that useful for anything? Religion is what people imagined to create a structured world around them and to explain what they didn't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #224 December 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteIn your example, the 'similarities' are like a sheep is similar to a cloud - both look white and fluffy. Beyond that they're really not. You will notice that I previously emphasized that it is scientific explanations, and not theories, that share similarities with eastern religions. And you will notice that I am suggesting that they are vague, superficial, ultimately meaningless similarities.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #225 December 12, 2007 >Let me shine a big bright light in your eyes. Don't worry you aren't really >seeing it your imagining it, so it really doesn't hurt, your imagining the >pain. Let me shine an IR laser in your eyes. You won't see anything (even afterwards!) and it won't hurt, so don't worry; it can't possibly do any harm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites