Won't sign a traffic ticket? That's a tasering!

[skycop 0]

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I got more cops in my family than most dogs have fleas. For years, I've sat around dinner tables filled with my father's, brother's, uncle's brothers in blue and listened as they swapped stories.

Wow, must suck to be you

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Happens most frequently in issues of probable cause where they actually find stuff and evidence 'in plain view' (wink, wink)

Bullshit, I tell my guys that no bad guy is ever worth comprimising your integrity. Where I work, there are always more bad guys. My word is just that, if I lie or "color my testimony" like you say then I lose credibility with the judges. That is a fatal mistake in law enforcement.

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If you have testified in a least 100 cases, then you have done it also and you know it ...that's a felony, my friend and cops commit perjury all the time. They not only see no problem with it, they frequently believe they have done a better job because of it

.

Hon, (that's right, I called you hon)I've testified in hundreds of cases, and I don't lie, it's not worth it.

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If cops witness another cop who makes a serious mistake in the heat of the moment resulting in charges

The only job you can go to jail for doing your job and making a mistake. Mistakes are not criminal, unless done intentionally.

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personally know a couple dozen cops who carry a 'clean' knife or gun 'just in case' they screw up and shoot an unarmed person. Why would 'honest' cops do that?

The only point I'll give you, it's called a "drop gun". Has it happened yes, it's one of those things, you've always heard about but never seen. It's the UFO of LEO's, I'll never dispute that it hasn't happened. But in the age of video and the other forms of media very unlikely. If the LEO gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar then he/she is jammed harder than the average joe.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[jenfly00 0]

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Bullshit, I tell my guys that no bad guy is ever worth comprimising your integrity. Where I work, there are always more bad guys. My word is just that, if I lie or "color my testimony" like you say then I lose credibility with the judges. That is a fatal mistake in law enforcement.

Yeah, right. I understand you have to make this type of statment publicly ...both you and I know it ain't true.

Let's check out some other very closed minded, uninformed, factually baseless statements, shall we?


Alan M. Dershowitz, a professor criminallaw at Harvard Law School for 35 years and one of the coutry's leading constitutional scholars testified before congress concerning police perjury.

http://www.teamliberty.net/id224.html

These were his key points:

·No felony is committed more frequently in the United States than the genre of perjury and false statements

·Criminal cases often are decided “according to the preponderance of perjury”

·Police perjury in criminal cases is so pervasive that “hundreds of thousands of law-enforcement officers commit felony perjury every year testifying about drug arrests” alone

·The most heinous brand of lying (perjury by police officers) is the giving of false testimony that results in the imprisonment or execution of an innocent person

·Less egregious, but still quite serious, is false testimony that results in the conviction of a person who committed the criminal conduct, but whose rights were violated in a manner that would preclude conviction if the police were to testify truthfully

·Police Officers are almost taught how to commit perjury when they are in the Police Academy

·Police perjury is not anecdotal. Many commission reports prove rampant abuses in police departments throughout the United States

·Judges and prosecutors tolerate if not encourage police lying in court all in the name of convicting the factually guilty

·According to the Mollen Commission[2] the practice of police falsification is so common that it has spawned its own word – testilying

Common examples:

· When officers unlawfully stop and search a vehicle because they believe there are drugs in it, officers will falsely claim in police reports and under oath that the car ran a red light or committed some other traffic violation

oOnce pulled over, the police officer will search the occupants of the vehicle as well as the vehicle – with or without consent – although the police officer will always indicate that they had consent

§ If consent is adamantly opposed by the occupants, the police officer will report, under oath, that the contraband was in plain view

· To conceal an unlawful search that does not involve a vehicle, police officers have been taught to report and testify that they saw a bulge in the person’s pocket or saw drugs and money changing hands

·To justify unlawfully entering a residence where officers believe drugs or cash can be found, cops commit felony perjury by claiming that they had information from an unidentified civilian informant

If you prefer his exact statement to congress, check here:


http://www.constitution.org/lrev/dershowitz_test_981201.txt

Exerpts:


-----------
The following year, I represented, on appeal, a lawyer accused of
corruption. The major witness against him was a policeman who
acknowledged at trial that he himself had committed three crimes
while serving as a police officer. He denied that he had committed
more than these three crimes. It was subsequently learned that he
had, in fact, committed hundreds of additional crimes, including some
he specifically denied under oath. He too was never prosecuted for
perjury, because a young Assistant U.S. Attorney, named Rudolph
Giuliani, led a campaign against prosecuting this admitted perjurer.
Shortly afterward, the policeman explained:

Cops are almost taught how to commit perjury when
they are in the Police Academy. Perjury to a policeman
- and to a lawyer, by the way - is not a big deal.
Whether they are giving out speeding tickets or parking
tickets, they're almost always lying. But very few cops
lie about the actual facts of a case. They may stretch an
incident or whatever to fit it into the framework of the
law based on what they consider a silly law of the
Supreme Court.

---------------


Many judges who listen to or review police testimony on a regular
basis privately agree with Judge Alex Kozinski of the United States
Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, who publicly stated: "It is an
open secret long shared by prosecutors, defense lawyers and judges
that perjury is widespread among law enforcement officers," and that
the reason for it is that "the exclusionary rule . . . sets up a great
incentive for . . . police to lie to avoid letting someone they think is
guilty, or they know is guilty, go free."[14] Or, as Judge Irving
Younger explained, "Every lawyer who practices in the criminal
courts knows that police perjury is commonplace."[15]


-------------

So, either you are one of the most totally clueless police officers in the country about what is going on...or your shoveling bullshit cause you know it will sell to the faithful.

As I said, I know you cannot publicaly admit this extremely widespread problem so why don't you just STFU and at cling to some level of integrity in your silence.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[akarunway 1]

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If they DO get training, how is it that we see so many of these types of situations happening all over the country?

There is a great deal of training, our states academy for city and county officers is 18 weeks, it may be expanded to 22. Additionally most field training programs after the academy are 12-16 additional weeks.
These situations are NOT happening all over the country, the advent of the 24 hour news cycle, You Tube, and other types of media make it appear that way. There are thousands of police and public contacts daily in this country many under very tense and dangerous circumstances, a very very small amount end up like this. Law enforcement works very hard to reduce that small amount.

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Most of you guys make a mockery out of the motto, "To Serve and to Protect."

Could'nt disagree with you more the vast, vast majority of LEO's are honest, hardworking people doing a thankless sometimes very dangerous job.

ROFLMAO. Keep on believing what they taught (indoctinated is a better word) you at the acadmey. And PLEASE keep all those hookers, speeders and druggies in jail. Pays your salery eh? Go catch a real criminal would ya. Thanks.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Hi kelp,

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You can't get killed in a training exercise.

We had it happen here in Oregon a few years ago. Seems as though someone mistakenly put live rounds into a weapon that was supposed to have blanks.

It was during a retraining 'thingy' at the state Police Academy for experienced officers.

JerryBaumchen

PS) And it WAS heavily investigated.

What drill required blanks? Didn't work well for Brandon Lee either.

Seems like the hammer clicking would do just fine. I guess the military believes highly in live fire exercise, but cops? At closer range blanks are potentially fatal.

[freethefly 6]

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It's real simple out there kids. If a cop stops you and orders you to do something, just do it.

Bullshit! Would you allow the police to search your car during a routine traffic stop? I've forced a cop to call in drug dogs and a good number of officers after a refusal to allow him to search my car. 3 to 4 hours later and most likely a lot of the taxpayers money being wasted, they fucktard gave me my ticket and i was out of there laughing my ass off at what a bunch of Barney Fifes they were. They cop told me that I could had saved them a lot of time had I only let him search my car. I told him to fuck himself, took my ticket and left. My lawyer got it reduced to a parking ticket. Sure, I could had let that bozo search my car but why?

And while you were laughing at them they were, and probably still are, laughing at you for wasting 4 hours of your own time. But that's your right, isn't it?

I had nowhere to be. I could had sat all day while someones house was being broke into or a liquor store was being robbed. Never mind the crack dealers that run the area I was in. Much more important to waste the taxpayers money to search a guy during a routine traffic stop.
The area I was in is Lucas & Hunt and Natural Bridge Road (Those from St.Louis know those area for what it is). This is a gang ridden part of St.Louis county that borders the city. Mostly ghetto. The police station is above a liquor store in a converted apartment building. The cops in this area are every bit as criminal as some of the local residents.
I was coming from Dawson Engineering where I kept my 57 Chevy pro-mod. I was there at least 3-4 times a week and my El camino was well known by the local cops.
I was pulled over for being a few miles over the speed limit. Fine, no problem. When the dip wad asked if a had any grenades, missles or rocket launchers I laughed at him. He asked if I would consent to a search. I told him "No". I asked if he would give me my ticket so I can leave. He said "No". He then gave me the crap line "If you have nothing to hide then you should have no problem with me searching your car". Well, I had nothing to hide and I do have a problem with a cop going through my stuff. I have a problem with the fact that cops do "find" dope that was not in the car. I have a problem with stuff that may dissappear (money, CD's, whatever) during a search. He had absolutely no right to search. There was no odor of marijuana, no odor of alcohol, no visable sign of countraband. No nothing. I'm sure he saw my car several times a week at the Dawsons as I always parked in front along Lucas & Hunt. My 1980 El camino is a very recognizable car being black and silver with Super Sport on the doors. It's the only one I've ever seen around St.Louis. Personally, I was surprised when he called in the county drug force and dogs. Was he doing it because he believed I had drugs? or was he only being a prick hoping that just maybe he might find a roach? Either way, I was within my rights to refuse him and he stepped out of bounds holding me and wasting thousands of tax dollars in the hope that he may look like a hero. "HEY!!!!, Look!!!! I got a whole joint off of the streets!!!! The drug war is WORKING and we are WINNING!!!!!" While they wasted their time on me... crack dealing was going on just down the road... business as usual with no interuption.
But hey... KelliJ if you are so against our rights... I am assuming that you would have no problem with be searched regardless of the situation? Your car? Your house? How about your body?
I stand my ground against an unwarrented search. You on the otherhand seem to be ever so anxious to bend over and spread em.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[KelliJ 0]

Where did you ever get the impression I was against our rights? Yes, i do have a problem with unwarranted searches regardless of what is being searched. And no, i am NOT in a hurry to, as you put it, "bend over and spread 'em". I resent your insinuation that I am some sort of whore.
But I can overlook all that since it is quite obvious you have neither the intelligence nor the good sense to actually protect your rights. By sitting by and allowing them to waste 4 hours of your time searching a vehicle that you didn't want searched you did, in fact, give up your rights. There are at least two ways that I know of that you could have LEGALLY stopped them from searching your car, but you chose to allow them. Shame on you for giving up you rights. I don't understand how someone can be so willing and uncaring about their rights as to allow the police to get away with that when it would have been so easy to stop. Then, instead of them wasting their time, they could have been catching real crooks, your car would not have been searched, and you would have been on your merry little way. Everyone would have been happy. But no. You allowed an illegal search, you're mad, and they got what they wanted...to search your car.
Sucker!

[DSE 5]

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But it was the actions of the cop that caused her to become hysterical.

And your point is?
Hysterical is hysterical regardless of the cause. Hysterical and weapons often don't mix.

[Flacid_Monk 0]

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But it was the actions of the cop that caused her to become hysterical.

And your point is?
Hysterical is hysterical regardless of the cause. Hysterical and weapons often don't mix.

there you go!!!!

All she was was a hysterical woman, she didn't say she had a gun, yet one of the first things you think of is "she might have a gun!!!!!!!"

why do you think guns all the time, is it because of your gun culture? is it because it's so easy for the average person to get a gun that you automatically think they might have a gun?

Over here in England, we'd have just seen her as a hysterical woman, we just would NOT think she might have a gun it seems that one of the first things you think about in any situation is "they might have a gun" we never think that... i'm glad we don't have to take that in to consideration when we go about our daily lives of interacting with people.

does your general level of paranoia that somebody might be carrying a gun in any situation that you encounter them, seem a price worth paying to own guns? it seems to me that you've got a snowball effect going on.... you want to have guns to protect yourself from others that might be carrying guns themselves, who came first though? was it you carrying a gun for protection, or the other person who is carrying a gun (maybe for their own protection from you !!!) that makes you carry a gun ... what a bizzare fucked up way of living

[KelliJ 0]

She could have had a knife or a knitting needle or a baton or any number of items. The cop did what he needed to do with her to keep her from making the situation worse for him, her, and her husband. She could have very easily been cited for interfering with an officer.

Since you live in England you must feel comfortable counting on the mercy of criminals to keep you safe until the coppers arrive. That is, if they aren't too busy arresting people for disrespecting a member of your monarchy.
What a bizzare fucked up way of living.

[skycop 0]

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Yeah, right. I understand you have to make this type of statment publicly ...both you and I know it ain't true

Wow, you should use those powers to read other peoples minds for good, not eeeeevillllllll

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Alan M. Dershowitz, a professor criminallaw at Harvard Law School for 35 years and one of the coutry's leading constitutional scholars testified before congress concerning police perjury.

Oh no, not THE Alan Dershowitz, man ya got me there, a card carrying member of the ACLU believing bad things about law enforcement, say it ain't so!!!
I'll use the ivory towers defense with him. And if he says and beleives it, it must be true

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Police Officers are almost taught how to commit perjury when they are in the Police Academy

How do you almost teach somebody something?. I think I passed my perjury block in the academy 20 yrs ago.

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·Police perjury is not anecdotal. Many commission reports prove rampant abuses in police departments throughout the United States

2 out of 3 moms think jiffy tastes best! The wording is a little broad at best, still does'nt prove anything.

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If you prefer his exact statement to congress, check here:

They are just that, statements and opinion. You and I have those too, they just happen to be different.

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So, either you are one of the most totally clueless police officers in the country about what is going on

Aw man, ya got me again, if I only would have known.

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why don't you just STFU and at cling to some level of integrity in your silence

The true colors start to show, when I say things you don't like you say STFU, did it take you a long time to come up with that? I love some "progressives", they feel the louder they scream the more sense they make

And sweetie, I've spent 20 yrs building upon a strong foundation of integrity given to me by my parents, I sleep just great at night.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[jakee 1,595]

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Since you live in England you must feel comfortable counting on the mercy of criminals to keep you safe until the coppers arrive. That is, if they aren't too busy arresting people for disrespecting a member of your monarchy.
What a bizzare fucked up way of living.

Hah! Some people would say that living in a society where so many cops get shot by the roadside that a pregnant middle class woman is automatically considered a mortal threat.

BTW, arrested for disrespecting the monarchy? WTF, over?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

<<.. what a bizzare fucked up way of living>>


You're right.... your countries way is sooo much better than everyone elses - how silly of us.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,148]

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***

Oh no, not THE Alan Dershowitz, man ya got me there, a card carrying member of the ACLU believing bad things about law enforcement, say it ain't so!!!
I'll use the ivory towers defense with him. And if he says and beleives it, it must be true
.

So you don;t like him, OK.

At least he hasn't been guilty of sodomizing suspects with a broomstick (NYPD) or with a screwdriver (Chicago PD), or torturing anyone with electric shock (Chicago PD), or firing 19 bullets into a man armed only with a wallet (NYPD).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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>

Public service broadcasting

Police Memo: The Taserings will continue until morale improves!

Hmmmm.

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2957161#2957161

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

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Where did you ever get the impression I was against our rights? Yes, i do have a problem with unwarranted searches regardless of what is being searched. And no, i am NOT in a hurry to, as you put it, "bend over and spread 'em". I resent your insinuation that I am some sort of whore.
But I can overlook all that since it is quite obvious you have neither the intelligence nor the good sense to actually protect your rights. By sitting by and allowing them to waste 4 hours of your time searching a vehicle that you didn't want searched you did, in fact, give up your rights. There are at least two ways that I know of that you could have LEGALLY stopped them from searching your car, but you chose to allow them. Shame on you for giving up you rights. I don't understand how someone can be so willing and uncaring about their rights as to allow the police to get away with that when it would have been so easy to stop. Then, instead of them wasting their time, they could have been catching real crooks, your car would not have been searched, and you would have been on your merry little way. Everyone would have been happy. But no. You allowed an illegal search, you're mad, and they got what they wanted...to search your car.
Sucker!

First, I never insinuated that you were a "whore" as you put it. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion.
Second, I was detained on drug suspicion because I refused a physical search of my vehicle. A refusal gives the police the right to detain a person as it leads them to believe that you are hiding something.
My stand was that I did nothing to warrant suspicion that would lead to a physical search of my vehicle. I was merely over the speed limit as pretty much the same as everyone else going down that road. I was only unlucky to get hit by radar and pulled over. There was nothing that would lead a person to believe that I was carrying anything. Nothing out of the ordinary. My hair is long but, nothing unusual about that. I have a lot of visible tattoos but, nothing unusual about that. My car is hotrodded but, nothing unusual about that. In fact, I'm just an ordinary person who looks like anyone else in the crowd. If the cop went on a power trip due to I refusing his request then he did it at the expense of the community. He was in the wrong. The search they did do was a drug dog search. They walked him around the car several times and nothing happened. No hit. They never got inside my car. I was given my speeding ticket and away I went.

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There are at least two ways that I know of that you could have LEGALLY stopped them from searching your car, but you chose to allow them.

The search they did was the perimeter of the vehicle. That is legal and there is nothing one could say that would stop the search. I was told that I was being detained on drug suspicion. I was not under arrest but, still was not free to leave. I could had easily let him search and possibly been on my way or I could had let him search and been on my way to jail due to him possibly tossing a bag of crack into my car. Not taking that chance. I have never allowed a search and never had any trouble due to refusing but for this one time.
See it how you want. I see it as holding my ground and not caving in to allow him to physically search my vehicle for no reason. Besides, I had nothing better to do and even if I had, I still would had refused him.

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But I can overlook all that since it is quite obvious you have neither the intelligence nor the good sense to actually protect your rights.

Are you calling me stupid? Sounds like a thinly disguised p.a..

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skycop 0]

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At least he hasn't been guilty of sodomizing suspects with a broomstick (NYPD) or with a screwdriver (Chicago PD), or torturing anyone with electric shock (Chicago PD), or firing 19 bullets into a man armed only with a wallet (NYPD).

Don't you get tired of the same replies? We've been down this road before.........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 2,148]

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At least he hasn't been guilty of sodomizing suspects with a broomstick (NYPD) or with a screwdriver (Chicago PD), or torturing anyone with electric shock (Chicago PD), or firing 19 bullets into a man armed only with a wallet (NYPD).

Don't you get tired of the same replies? We've been down this road before.........

Stop defending the indefensible, and I'll stop reminding you of it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JeepDiver 0]

The guy who got Tasered deserved it.

Most intelligent ppl would say yes sir, thank you, drive away and bitch under their breath about getting a speeding ticket.

The Utah state police should send him a Darwin award in a nice frame. Hopefully the kid in the car with him doesn't grow up to be as stupid as the father clearly is.

[skycop 0]

I don't defend overt criminal activity, go back and look. You keep bringing up the same old stuff...........yawn..........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[KelliJ 0]

"BTW, arrested for disrespecting the monarchy? WTF, over? "

Just an exaggeration of an aspect of your society in response to an exaggeration of an aspect of our society by Flacid_Monk.

[KelliJ 0]

"First, I never insinuated that you were a "whore" as you put it. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion. "
Maybe from this?

"You on the otherhand seem to be ever so anxious to bend over and spread em. "

So, which was it? Was the search legal or not? If it was, what are you so pissed about? If it wasn't, why did you allow it?
I've been wrong before but I have always been led to believe that refusal to allow a search is not probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. Maybe there is something you aren't telling us that gave them probable cause. If there wasn't you sure have a good case for them having violated your civil rights.

[freethefly 6]

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"You on the otherhand seem to be ever so anxious to bend over and spread em. "

That was not implying that you were a "whore".

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So, which was it? Was the search legal or not? If it was, what are you so pissed about? If it wasn't, why did you allow it?

I was detained on drug suspicion due to the refusal. That is legal. The drug dogs sniffing the outside of the car was also legal.
I could had persued a civil case but, the cops word is almost always taken over that of the person filing the complaint. I did ask my lawyer about it and he advised against it.

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Maybe there is something you aren't telling us that gave them probable cause.

Nope, nothing more than I refused him to allow a physical search of my car.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[KelliJ 0]

I'm confused about something and maybe you can sort it out.
In your earlier post, #155, you said the cop went out of bounds by keeping your car there so they could run a drug dog around it but now you say it was perfectly legal, which it was. Soooo....if it was legal then how was he out of bounds?
You were well within your rights to refuse a search. The cop was within his rights to walk a sniffy pup around your car. You were the reason they spent "hours" searching for something that wasn't there so why bitch about them "wasting" their time even if you were within your rights to cause them to do so?
Sounds like a case where two hard-heads met and parted.

[Amazon 7]

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I've been wrong before but I have always been led to believe that refusal to allow a search is not probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. Maybe there is something you aren't telling us that gave them probable cause. If there wasn't you sure have a good case for them having violated your civil rights.

In todays political climate......not being a cop is all the probable cause they need....most I have seen have the typical attitude of the Imperious Leader.. If you aint one of us.. then you are against us.

I do know a couple who really are there to Serve and Protect... but MOST....do not fit that description.

[akarunway 1]

Another sheep. Don't waste your time w/ her. To Freethefly

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.