A really good article on global warming

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I think it is quite the oposite sir.

Of course you do. And ten years from now, when CO2 continues to ruse, average temperatures are still going up and ice is still melting, you'll have another cut-n-paste angle from the pages of Newsmax to claim it's really not happening.

Who knows? Perhaps future threads from you might be entitled:

There's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 2005!
There's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 2007!
There's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 2013!

I bet you could keep that up for the rest of your life.

I will await new or supporting data that supports your position sir (it sure is not showing up now) so, you can keep insulting me if that helps you feel better but, YOU cant change the facts. (of which you have very few besides the see this see this so the relationship means this mantra)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>I will await new or supporting data that supports your position sir

Most recent ones:

Solar output is going down, not up, over the past 20 years (Royal Society/Switzerland WRC)

CO2 levels now top 380ppm; accounts for 91% of forcing (World Meteorological Organization)

[ExAFO 0]

We're all gonna Die!!!












(eventually)

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I will await new or supporting data that supports your position sir

Most recent ones:

Solar output is going down, not up, over the past 20 years (Royal Society/Switzerland WRC)

CO2 levels now top 380ppm; accounts for 91% of forcing (World Meteorological Organization)

Well hells bells then, that proves it. I am now a non-denier

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

Quote

>I will await new or supporting data that supports your position sir

Most recent ones:

Solar output is going down, not up, over the past 20 years (Royal Society/Switzerland WRC)

CO2 levels now top 380ppm; accounts for 91% of forcing (World Meteorological Organization)

Well hells bells then, that proves it. I am now a non-denier

How would you know?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,120]

>Well hells bells then, that proves it. I am now a non-denier.

Now THAT is a funny post!

"I will await new or supporting data that supports your position sir - so I can mock it."

[rushmc 23]

Of course you do. And ten years from now, when CO2 continues to ruse, average temperatures are still going up and ice is still melting, you'll have another cut-n-paste angle from the pages of Newsmax to claim it's really not happening.

Who knows? Perhaps future threads from you might be entitled:

There's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 2005!
There's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 2007!
There's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 2013!

I bet you could keep that up for the rest of your life.

Quote

Who started the mocking with the out of context bs??

You offered nothing new. You offered conclusions not any kind of proof or experimental support.

Mock away

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/global_temperatures_are_uncorrelated_with_carbon_dioxide_trends_this_last_d/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

More along my position that there is no concensus.

Consider this

FAQs and Myths

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/faqs-and-myths

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

From a peer-reviewed study, not a denier website:

======================
Industrial CO2 emissions as a proxy for anthropogenic influence on lower tropospheric temperature trends

A. T. J. de Laat

National Institute for Space Research (SRON), Utrecht, Netherlands

Abstract

Surface temperature trends during the last two decades show a significant increase which appears to be anthropogenic in origin. We investigate global temperature changes using surface as well as satellite measurements and show that lower tropospheric temperature trends for the period 1979–2001 are spatially correlated to anthropogenic surface CO2 emissions, which we use as a measure of industrialization.
=======================

From Science News:

=======================
Now a new analysis of satellite data from 1978 to 2002 indicates that troposphere temperature has risen by around 0.024 ºC per year, outpacing warming at the surface. So say Konstantin Vinnikov, of the University of Maryland in College Park, and Norman Grody, of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in Washington DC.
========================

[rushmc 23]

Quote

From a peer-reviewed study, not a denier website:

Quote

Once again my point is the science is not settled. I also believe more and more this is the beginning of the end for the alarmists.......untill the next push.

Lable away, you attempts will not silence those who do not agree with you or your agenda

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

• Quote

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[billvon 3,120]

>Lable away, you attempts will not silence those who do not agree with you . . .

Of course not. There are people who still believe that the earth is flat, that 9/11 was pulled off by the US government, that smoking isn't bad for you, and that the moon landings were faked. They won't be "silenced" either.

Fortunately for us, most people don't listen to such kooks even if they get very, very shrill.

[rushmc 23]

Fortunately for us, most people don't listen to such kooks even if they get very, very shrill.

[billvon 3,120]

>As I read more about your hearlded "peer review" processes I am less and
>less impressed.

Good for you! Will you reject the "clueless medical community" and the "idiotic Apollo swindle" next?

>When one learns that in the world of GWing alarmism, to take a
>view contrary to the GWing crowd, and get it published, you will
>vilified and excoriated . . .

More rejected and subsequently ignored. It would be like trying to publish a paper proving that smoking is good for you. If you had actual data backed up by clinical trials, you'd likely get published. But such people often just have conspiracy theories, political agendas and anecdotal stories as opposed to real data - and are treated accordingly.

But I'm sure there are smoker websites that will publish them!

[rushmc 23]

Solar output is going down, not up, over the past 20 years (Royal Society/Switzerland WRC)

Quote

Maybe but here is a differnt "conclusion" about recent solar affects than you would have me believe.

Once again, the SCIENCE is NOT settled

http://www.fel.duke.edu/~scafetta/pdf/2007JD008437.pdf

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

• Quote

[rushmc 23]

I know many do not care for FOX but, this artice/oped, what every you want to call it has many links and conclusions from others(Type whatever deniers I know)

And even fewer alarmists like Miloy. Read and look at the links for yourself

And once again, my position is the science is not settled

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313966,00.html

It's the Sun, Stupid
Thursday , November 29, 2007

By Steven Milloy

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/moberg2005/moberg2005.html


When the international global warming alarm-ocracy gathers for its annual convention on the balmy island of Bali next week, is there any chance that the delegates will look up at the big yellow ball in the sky and ask, “Could it be the Sun, stupid?”

New research suggests that would be a great question for them to consider.

A recent study from the Journal of Geophysical Research (November 2007) reports that the sun may have contributed 50 percent or more of the global warming thought to have occurred since 1900.

Researchers from Duke University and the U.S. Army Research Office report that climate appears to be insensitive to solar variation if you accept the global temperature trend for the past 1,000 years as represented by the so-called “hockey stick” graph — which claims to show essentially unchanging temperatures between from 1000 to 1900 and then a sharp uptick from 1900 to the present. But the hockey stick-graph has been relegated to the ash heap of global warming history.

Even the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) no longer mentions the graph in its reports. The researchers instead used a temperature reconstruction developed by Stockholm University researcher Ander Moberg and others that shows more variation in pre-industrial temperatures. Using Moberg’s reconstruction, the researchers found that “the climate is very sensitive to solar changes and a significant fraction of the global warming that occurred during the last century should be solar induced.”

The researchers conclude that the current large-scale computer models — which, by the way, don’t work as they don’t even accurately reproduce historical temperature trends — could be significantly improved by adding sun-climate coupling mechanisms. Unfortunately, the reconsideration of the climate models isn’t on the agenda at Bali.

Another interesting bit of data comes by way of the Solar Science blog, which on Nov. 15 spotlighted a letter in the Green County Daily World (Indiana) that starts out, “Each morning I turn on my computer and check to see how the sun is doing. Lately I am greeted with the message ‘The sun is blank — no sunspots.’”

The letter goes on to state that, “We are at the verge of the next sunspot cycle, solar cycle 24. How intense will this cycle be? Why is this question important? Because the sun is a major force controlling natural climate change on Earth…”

“For the past few months, the actual sunspot numbers have been below [the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s] lower predicted threshold, approaching zero,” according to the letter, leading some to conclude that we may be headed into another “solar minimum” period. The solar minimum, known as the Maunder Minimum, corresponds to the temperature depths of the Little Ice Age, a period of global cooling lasting from the 14th century to the 19th century.

As you can see from this graph of solar activity since the mid-18th century, low sunspot activity matches up nicely with well-known Little Ice Age climatic events like George Washington’s Christmas-night 1776 crossing of the ice-strewn Delaware River and Napoleon Bonaparte’s retreat from Moscow in the horrifically-cold winter of 1812-1813.

The letter writer goes on to mention that not too long ago the Mississippi River froze solid above St. Louis, permitting westward wagon trains to cross in the winter and that you can still see old two-story houses in Wisconsin with second floor doors that allowed inhabitants to exit their homes in the middle of winter when snow depths reached 8-feet and more.

If sunspot activity continues to be so markedly low, then we should prepare for the possibility of a significant global cooling trend that could reduce agricultural yields and bring on the sort of food shortages that occurred during the Little Ice Age.

There’s also a new study out this week claiming that the expansion of above-ground tree vegetation in Europe has absorbed 126 million tons of carbon, equivalent to 11 percent of the region’s carbon emissions. While this seems like a positive development — at least for those bent on removing carbon from the atmosphere in order to reduce global temperature — it may actually backfire in terms of preventing global warming.

As reported in this column last April, forests in northern regions actually contribute to global warming through the albedo effect. Researchers estimated that this effect may contribute as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit to regional temperatures. So while expanding European forests may take more carbon out of the atmosphere — a dubious proposition for reducing global warming — the forests will also be absorbing more sunlight producing a net effect of warmer temperatures.

Finally, let’s not forget about last year’s experimental validation of the sun’s impact on cloud cover. That research indicated that climatic impact of sun-influenced cloud cover during the 20th century could be as much as seven times greater than the alleged effect of 200 years worth of manmade carbon dioxide. So while the global warming crowd parties in Bali amid its plotting and planning to subjugate western economies to global government based on a dubious hypothesis about trace levels of invisible manmade gases acting as some sort of atmospheric thermostat, the sun will be there shining down on their folly.

Would it be too much to ask for someone to look upwards and see the light?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>but, this artice/oped, what every you want to call it has many links . . .

Hmm. So you believe we are currently heading into a period of low solar output? Interesting that you now seem to agree with me!

(Or did you not read it?)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>but, this artice/oped, what every you want to call it has many links . . .

Hmm. So you believe we are currently heading into a period of low solar output? Interesting that you now seem to agree with me!

(Or did you not read it?)

But thier conclusion related to planet temps was?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln