Not legal? No Mexican driver's license for you

[warpedskydiver 0]

Not legal? No Mexican driver's license for you

By Chris Hawley, USA TODAY

MEXICO CITY — The question of whether to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants has ignited a national debate in the United States.
Yet in Mexico, the biggest source of immigrants to the USA, there's no debate: If you're not in the country legally, you can't get a driver's license.

All of Mexico's 31 states, along with the federal district of Mexico City, require foreigners to present a valid visa if they want a driver's license, according to a survey of states by USA TODAY.

"When it comes to foreigners, we're a little more strict here," said Alejandro Ruíz, director of education at the Mexican Automobile Association.

The issue took the national spotlight after presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton said a move by the New York governor to give licenses to illegal immigrants "makes a lot of sense" during a debate.

Proponents said the plan would have made the roads safer by ensuring that drivers are trained and insured, but the ensuing public outcry forced Gov. Eliot Spitzer to abandon the effort this week. U.S. Rep. Pete King, R-N.Y., filed a bill Wednesday that would bar states from any future attempts to give licenses to illegal immigrants.

Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington allow drivers to get licenses without proving they are legal residents, according to the National Immigration Law Center. Most other states require applicants to prove they are citizens or legal residents.

In Mexico, by contrast, the policy is similar across the country and often strictly enforced.

"The fact that all 31 states in Mexico would have such a common-sense position … shows to me a certain hypocrisy on the part of the Mexican government, because they are constantly criticizing those of us in Congress who want immigration laws to be tougher up here," King said.

Licensing offices in all of Mexico's 31 states, along with the Federal District, where Mexico City lies, said they require applicants to prove their citizenship, preferably by showing a voter registration card issued by the Federal Elections Institute.

(Foreign tourists who are in Mexico temporarily can drive using their foreign licenses, the states said. Most U.S. states have a similar exemption for visitors.)

Mexican officials said rules are strictly enforced, especially in southern states that have a problem with illegal immigrants from Central America.

"Last week a man came here (with a tourist visa) and said he was working as a deliveryman," said Denia Gurgua, manager of the drivers' license office in Tuxtla Gutiérrez, the capital of Chiapas state. She said she denied him a license because he did not have a visa to work in Mexico.

"Our constitution has certain restrictions for foreigners," she said.

U.S. proponents of tougher restrictions worry that having a drivers' license helps legitimize illegal immigrants, making it harder to detect and remove them.

But immigrant advocates say the two countries don't compare. U.S. states are trying to protect other motorists from millions of illegal immigrants who are already driving, said Tyler Moran, an expert on drivers' licenses at the National Immigration Law Center.

There are an estimated 11.5 million undocumented people living in the USA. Mexico's pool of foreign residents is much smaller — about 500,000 people in a country of 105 million, census figures show.

"It may be a bit like comparing apples and oranges," Moran said. U.S. states "are dealing in reality, and it's better public policy to have people actually have licenses, have identification, have insurance."

Hawley is Latin America correspondent for USA TODAY and The Arizona Republic. Contributing: Sergio Solache

[Lefty 0]

What a silly little country. Although, does it say more about us when we don't even have as much common sense as they do regarding driver's license laws?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[masterrig 1]

This country's government just needs to grow a 'pair'! If, Mexico can do it... why won't we? We're just so afraid, we might 'offend' Mexico. Yet, they have no qualms about offending us! The whole illegal situation is so screwed-up. The one's who will in the end, pay for it, is us... the legal citizens!

Chuck

[kallend 2,150]

If drivers' licenses were not used as de-facto ID cards and voter motor laws didn't exist, would you still object to illegals having to prove they can drive before doing so on our streets?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[masterrig 1]

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If drivers' licenses were not used as de-facto ID cards and voter motor laws didn't exist, would you still object to illegals having to prove they can drive before doing so on our streets?

I don't approve of illegals in this country in any way, shape or form. Much less, behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.


Chuck

[kallend 2,150]

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If drivers' licenses were not used as de-facto ID cards and voter motor laws didn't exist, would you still object to illegals having to prove they can drive before doing so on our streets?

I don't approve of illegals in this country in any way, shape or form. Much less, behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.


Chuck

However you may disapprove, they are here and driving on the same roads you and I drive on. Do you prefer that they drive without any qualification whatsoever?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[masterrig 1]

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If drivers' licenses were not used as de-facto ID cards and voter motor laws didn't exist, would you still object to illegals having to prove they can drive before doing so on our streets?

I don't approve of illegals in this country in any way, shape or form. Much less, behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.


Chuck

However you may disapprove, they are here and driving on the same roads you and I drive on. Do you prefer that they drive without any qualification whatsoever?

We have U.S. citizens driving without driver's licenses!
Of course not. I guess, the mere fact that illegals are allowed to obtain a driver's license, free medical help and all the rest. States need to quit issuing driver's licenses to illegals. I had to show a birth certificate when I first got mine. Why, should they be treated any different? I know they are here, I see them all the time in these parts and they should be returned to where they came from!!!
Recently, in Houston, a little girl was killed by a drunk driver. The drunk driver was an illegal. That's just one example. Check those records. They are in the greater Chicago area, too!

Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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I see them all the time in these parts

I'm curious how you can tell.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Hey my daughter has to bring a copy of her birth certificate on monday or the cops will be called.

They had a copy at her grade school (same district) but they don't have it now.

Illegals get a free pass.(actual district rules)

[Andy9o8 2]

OK, fine.

I'm still curious how Chuck can tell.

[masterrig 1]

It's not really that difficult but, too lengthy to explain here.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Hey my daughter has to bring a copy of her birth certificate on monday or the cops will be called.

They had a copy at her grade school (same district) but they don't have it now.

Illegals get a free pass.(actual district rules)

How screwed-up is that? Do you know why, the school district does it that way? Political correctness? That's just wrong!


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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It's not really that difficult but, too lengthy to explain here.
Chuck

If it's not difficult to spot 'em, I'd think it'd be easy to explain.

[Andy9o8 2]

...That being said, it is reasonable for any country, including Mexico, to issue driver's licenses only to those in the country legally. But on a moral level, it is a bit audacious for Mexico not to carve out a special exception for US citizens. Mexico's economy benefits greatly from illegal immigration into the US, and the Mexican govt bitches loudly whenever controls on our side of the border, like fences or walls, are even contemplated. Hell, the least they can do is give us a little preferential quid pro quo.

[mnealtx 0]

Those are very good points, Andy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I know several American illegal immigrants to Mexico. They just use their American licenses.

[Andy9o8 2]

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It's not really that difficult but, too lengthy to explain here.
Chuck

If it's not difficult to spot 'em, I'd think it'd be easy to explain.

Of course you know why I'm needling you, Chuck. I know how you can spot them. But is it reasonable to presume that every poor-looking, Mexican-looking person speaking Spanish and working in a low-wage job in south Texas is necessarily illegal?

I'm not saying you personally are part of it, but there's this thinly-veiled undercurrent of ethnic bias, even racism, that is so obvious in so much of the anti-illegal immigrant rhetoric I hear. That's why you guys all see me react this way in these threads. I don't like it, and I won't stay silent to it.

[masterrig 1]

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It's not really that difficult but, too lengthy to explain here.
Chuck

If it's not difficult to spot 'em, I'd think it'd be easy to explain.

Of course you know why I'm needling you, Chuck. I know how you can spot them. But is it reasonable to presume that every poor-looking, Mexican-looking person speaking Spanish and working in a low-wage job in south Texas is necessarily illegal?

I'm not saying you personally are part of it, but there's this thinly-veiled undercurrent of ethnic bias, even racism, that is so obvious in so much of the anti-illegal immigrant rhetoric I hear. That's why you guys all see me react this way in these threads. I don't like it, and I won't stay silent to it.

Hell, I know some real racists, too! I damned sure don't associate with them. This world is too damned small for racism. What I am against is those who willingly ignore our I&NS laws and live in this country. I believe, it is a slap in the face of those who came to this country legally and went through the long, slow process of becoming a U.S. citizen. Illegals are stealing U.S. citizenship by the millions. I don't care if they are from another planet. Illegal entry is illegal entry and it needs to be stopped and we need to quit caving-in to them and giving them amnesty and whatever else they want. We need to get back our soveriegnty!


Chuck

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

What I am against is those who willingly ignore our I&NS laws and live in this country. I believe, it is a slap in the face of those who came to this country legally and went through the long, slow process of becoming a U.S. citizen. Illegals are stealing U.S. citizenship by the millions. I don't care if they are from another planet. Illegal entry is illegal entry and it needs to be stopped and we need to quit caving-in to them and giving them amnesty and whatever else they want. We need to get back our soveriegnty!


Chuck

As one who jumped through the hoops to come here legally, I sympathize. But I STILL find Andy's comments to be valid. Much of the anti-illegal sentiment is clearly just thinly veiled racism.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

What I am against is those who willingly ignore our I&NS laws and live in this country. I believe, it is a slap in the face of those who came to this country legally and went through the long, slow process of becoming a U.S. citizen. Illegals are stealing U.S. citizenship by the millions. I don't care if they are from another planet. Illegal entry is illegal entry and it needs to be stopped and we need to quit caving-in to them and giving them amnesty and whatever else they want. We need to get back our soveriegnty!


Chuck

As one who jumped through the hoops to come here legally, I sympathize. But I STILL find Andy's comments to be valid. Much of the anti-illegal sentiment is clearly just thinly veiled racism.

Is that to say, you feel that anyone and everyone should be allowed into this country? Just do away with our I&NS laws? Sentiment of a number of U.S. citizens of Mexican descent, leastwise here in Texas, are asking why nothing is done about the illegals... are they racists also?


Chuck

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

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What I am against is those who willingly ignore our I&NS laws and live in this country. I believe, it is a slap in the face of those who came to this country legally and went through the long, slow process of becoming a U.S. citizen. Illegals are stealing U.S. citizenship by the millions. I don't care if they are from another planet. Illegal entry is illegal entry and it needs to be stopped and we need to quit caving-in to them and giving them amnesty and whatever else they want. We need to get back our soveriegnty!


Chuck

As one who jumped through the hoops to come here legally, I sympathize. But I STILL find Andy's comments to be valid. Much of the anti-illegal sentiment is clearly just thinly veiled racism.

Is that to say, you feel that anyone and everyone should be allowed into this country? Just do away with our I&NS laws? Sentiment of a number of U.S. citizens of Mexican descent, leastwise here in Texas, are asking why nothing is done about the illegals... are they racists also?


Chuck

We have a problem here in Chicago with illegals from Mexico, Ireland and Poland. All the indignation seems to be reserved for the brown folks, though.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

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What I am against is those who willingly ignore our I&NS laws and live in this country. I believe, it is a slap in the face of those who came to this country legally and went through the long, slow process of becoming a U.S. citizen. Illegals are stealing U.S. citizenship by the millions. I don't care if they are from another planet. Illegal entry is illegal entry and it needs to be stopped and we need to quit caving-in to them and giving them amnesty and whatever else they want. We need to get back our soveriegnty!


Chuck

As one who jumped through the hoops to come here legally, I sympathize. But I STILL find Andy's comments to be valid. Much of the anti-illegal sentiment is clearly just thinly veiled racism.

Is that to say, you feel that anyone and everyone should be allowed into this country? Just do away with our I&NS laws? Sentiment of a number of U.S. citizens of Mexican descent, leastwise here in Texas, are asking why nothing is done about the illegals... are they racists also?


Chuck

We have a problem here in Chicago with illegals from Mexico, Ireland and Poland. All the indignation seems to be reserved for the brown folks, though.

I guess, it's the old story; 'The squeaky wheel, gets the grease!' Are the Irish and Polish out in the streets of America protesting? Are the Irish and Polish swarming across our borders by the thousands? Are the Irish and Polish people complaining about their illegal brethren? I've had (legal) Hispanic folks voice to me the same complaints about illegals. Seems as though, there are folks from both sides, who don't like the situation.
I don't know if, building walls is the right answer. That idea kinda' rings of 'old' Berlin. I don't believe, new laws are the answer, either. We need to enforce the laws on the books, we have now. Let me ask you this. Doesn't it bother you, just a little that, you came to this country, jumped through the legal hoops and bacame a citizen, that someone can just free as the breeze, cross our border and set-up housekeeping and expect not to be bothered and expect all the rights and freedoms we share?


Chuck

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Doesn't it bother you, just a little that, you came to this country, jumped through the legal hoops and bacame a citizen, that someone can just free as the breeze, cross our border and set-up housekeeping and expect not to be bothered and expect all the rights and freedoms we share?


Chuck

Of course it bothers me.

If no employers would hire them, they wouldn't come.

Seems to me that it should be easier and cheaper to police a few thousand employers than a few million Mexicans.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Doesn't it bother you, just a little that, you came to this country, jumped through the legal hoops and bacame a citizen, that someone can just free as the breeze, cross our border and set-up housekeeping and expect not to be bothered and expect all the rights and freedoms we share?


Chuck

Of course it bothers me.

If no employers would hire them, they wouldn't come.

Seems to me that it should be easier and cheaper to police a few thousand employers than a few million Mexicans.

There ya' go! I totally agree with you on that. That also happens to be a law on the books that isn't 'really' enforced.


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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Is that to say, you feel that anyone and everyone should be allowed into this country? Just do away with our I&NS laws? Sentiment of a number of U.S. citizens of Mexican descent, leastwise here in Texas, are asking why nothing is done about the illegals... are they racists also?

Quote

I guess, it's the old story; 'The squeaky wheel, gets the grease!' Are the Irish and Polish out in the streets of America protesting? Are the Irish and Polish swarming across our borders by the thousands?

Those replies are neither responsive nor intellectually honest. They are simply evasive. Disappointing.