Amazon 7 #51 November 18, 2007 Quoteremember that at the time we entered this war, the country was very supportive of it. It APPEARED they had that support because to many people were afraid of being AGAINST THEM if they were not for the war.....I got called a terroriswt sympathizer by more than one FERVENT war supporter....even here on DZ.Com.....all while he was yelling about towels heads and the season just opened on them.too bad he forgets his Chimp in Chief was touting how we were liberating them.. bringing democracy to them.....a racist is a racist...no matter what his latter protestations to the contrary. I did not support this war then and I do not support it now.. I thought it was a stupid idea then.. and given past performance.. I was right... the level of incompetence that has occured in this war is CRIMINAL and should be persued that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #52 November 18, 2007 And once again the way this thread has digressed makes me want to puke, we went from discussing how people who turn tail and run on their committments should be handled and here comes everyone trying to play the left v right game. Start your own fucking thread to argue this bullshit, it gets really fucking old really fucking quick. These cockbags new when they signed up that there was a war going one, and if by chance they were in prior to 9-11 they've had plenty of time to get out the right way. they are cowards, it has nothing to do with the "chickenhawks" like you have to mention in every thread Amazon, and it has nothing to do with the current administrations "lies" Kallend, and all the people that argued their replies and fueled them is just as guilty of fucking this discussion up. I am not arguing whether or not this war is right, or whether or not the current administration has a good record of military service, I just would like to see certain people quit trying to push their own agenda in every thread. This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #53 November 18, 2007 Since the thred is already of-topic, I have a couple questions for you. The posts about lack of discipline and people faking injuries, etc. make wonder if the effectiveness of troops in combat has been or will be reduced significantly. What do you think? When did that crap start? thanks "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #54 November 18, 2007 <> Why would they not be? They had been sold all of the 'intelligence' by people who they pay to be trusted. In general we belive the people that we put into power (At least, we used too). I think that the scales have fallen from most peoples eyes now and realise that for the most part, politicians are self serving. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #55 November 18, 2007 i was in the navy from 92-98. there was a lack of discipline, people faked injurys/sickness, and girls got pregnant to get out of deployments then. its nothing new. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #56 November 18, 2007 Quote remember that at the time we entered this war, the country was very supportive of it. "The country" only heard the cherry picked intel that the White House wanted the country to hear. There is ample evidence now from the official inquiry that the Bush Administration had been told that much of the "bad intel" was of doubtful quality and that there was conflicting intel. The administration only passed on what they wanted us to hear. Your hero has feet of clay.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #57 November 18, 2007 Quotethe white house did not make up the intelligence, which we know now to be faulty. if they did, myself, along with likely 95% of americans would like to see the administration in prison for life, but as i've said, there's ZERO evidence to support that. you are so blinded by your white-hot hatred toward this administration that you are letting your emotions get in the way of logic and reason. I didn't claim they made it up, I said it was false, and we all now know that it was. It wasn't just one false piece of intel, it was a whole long laundry list. Do you really think it was pure bad luck for Bush that EVERY claim relating to Iraqi WMDs and Iraqi complicity in 9/11 turned out to be wrong? If you really believe that, I know of a bridge for sale, cheap, that you might want to buy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #58 November 18, 2007 Quote These cockbags new when they signed up that there was a war going one, and if by chance they were in prior to 9-11 they've had plenty of time to get out the right way. they are cowards, it has nothing to do with the "chickenhawks" like you have to mention in every thread Amazon I mention it because so many of the COCKBAG CHICKENHAWKS here and in our country in general seem to LOVE WAR......I want THEM TO GO GET SOME. and YES they fucking PISS ME OFF... They are CRAZY BRAVE with other peoples kids BLOOD but NEVER their own...and THAT PISSES ME OFF If they want to wrap themselves in the flag and be all PATRIOTIC... they need to do something to SERVE OUR COUNTRY.I am SICK TO DEATH of Blue Star Mothers becoming GOLD STAR MOTHERS... for this fucking stupid bunch of morons who got us there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #59 November 20, 2007 I mention it because so many of the COCKBAG CHICKENHAWKS here and in our country in general seem to LOVE WAR......I want THEM TO GO GET SOME. and YES they fucking PISS ME OFF... They are CRAZY BRAVE with other peoples kids BLOOD but NEVER their own...and THAT PISSES ME OFF If they want to wrap themselves in the flag and be all PATRIOTIC... they need to do something to SERVE OUR COUNTRY. I am SICK TO DEATH of Blue Star Mothers becoming GOLD STAR MOTHERS... for this fucking stupid bunch of morons who got us there. Quote I honestly don't waste my time worrying about bullshit like this anymore, I'm a soldier, there's always going to be some asshole in office willing to send me to my death and not give a fuck if the name on my headstone is going to be Dan or dickhead. It's just the way shit works, soldiers are a tool for politicians, and those of us that live up to our comittments understand that. What I do get concered about is the motherfuckers that duck out of their duties. I know people wrapping up their fourth consecutive deployment, who have been begging for a stateside assignment for a few years so they can save their marraiges and get their head straight, yet still stand tall and board the plane to Iraq when their request is kicked back and these fucking assholes get scared to go on their first trip and turn tail and run. And the worst fucking part is that the majority of the deserters are in support roles. I have yet to catch word of one person in the SF community going AWOL before a deployment. As a matter of fact a couple of us on my team turned down stateside assignments because the team would have been under strength without us, we were on our 3rd or 4th trips and volunteered to go back, and if more people would fullfill their obligations and fill slots on team than we wouldn't be coming home for round 3 broken down and fucked up in the head. That's what gets me pissed off, I could write a book about the injuires I have now thanks to the war and these fucksticks were scared they would get tednonitis in their wrist from pushing paper all day and took off to Canada. I say fucking execute them publicly to send a message.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #60 November 20, 2007 QuoteHoiw many days of him being AWOL.. does it turn into DESERTION Nice way to "serve" the country.Donno. The records seem to have disappeared. Imagine that.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #61 November 20, 2007 QuoteThis is a good thing. I may not be for the continuation of the war but these guys signed up. Don't come to Canada to escape your commitments! http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=n111508A Supreme Court won't hear refugee appeals from two American army deserters November 15, 2007 - 10:08 THE CANADIAN PRESS OTTAWA - The Supreme Court of Canada will not hear the appeals of two U.S. army deserters who sought refugee status. The court has refused to hear the cases of Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey, who deserted after learning they were to be deployed to Iraq. They fled to Canada and asked for refugee status, claiming they opposed the war in Iraq as illegal and immoral. The Immigration and Refugee Board rejected their claims in 2005 and both the Federal Court and the Federal Court of Appeal refused to review the cases. As in usual in such cases, the high court gave no reasons for the decision. From the Strategy Page: ----------------------------------------------------------- Deserters As A Cost Of Doing Business November 19, 2007: The desertion rate for the U.S. Army has been going up. There were 42 percent more in 2007, than the year before. In fiscal 2007 (that ended on September 30th), the army lost nine soldiers per thousand to desertion. That's twice as many soldiers as were lost to combat (dead and seriously wounded). Desertion is the largest cause of losses in the military, larger than combat, and non-combat, deaths and serious (resulting in medical discharge) accident injuries. A deserter is anyone on active duty that is away from their unit, without permission, for more than 30 days. Actually, the desertion rate is about the same as it was before the Iraq invasion. There were 4,698 deserters in 2007, 3,301 in 2006, 2,543 in 2005, 2,357 in 2004, 2,771 in 2003, 4,483 in 2002, 4,597 in 2001, 3,949 in 2000 and 2,966 in 1999. The decline in desertions after 2002 was mainly the result of the army to screen more carefully for adaptation (to military life) problems. But since 2003, the army has made many changes in its recruiting, so that now, about 20 percent of the recruits are people who would not be accepted before 2003. But new screening and training methods have turned nearly all of those "unacceptable" recruits into effective soldiers. But there has been additional costs, in terms of more expensive training, and higher dropout rates. For the army, a deserter is basically a dropout, a recruit that didn't work out. The draft ended in 1972, and during the Vietnam war, there were years where the desertion rate was more than three times what it is now. Since then, only volunteers are accepted, and the main problem is people do have problems adapting to military life. The current war has meant that about 60 percent of army personnel will end up in a combat zone. That tends to be a high stress situation for some, and that often results in desertion. Another aspect of desertion is that, if you walk away, the army won't come after you. It's not worth the effort. Of course, deserters are cut off from veterans benefits (a substantial part of the overall compensation package), and your name is put on the national fugitives list. If you encounter the law and they run your name past this list, you will be arrested for desertion. But even with that, only five percent of current deserters are court martialed and officially thrown out of the army each year. Back in the 1990s, only about two percent of deserters were caught. But since September 11, 2001, national criminal databases have gotten more thorough, and heavily used. So more deserters are being found. When a deserter is caught, he (it's usually a he) is turned over to military police. The deserter is then returned to their unit, where the punishment ranges from loss of rank and dishonorable discharge, to that, plus up to five years in prison. The most common punishments are at the low end, although in the last few years, there have been more cases of deserters being given another chance to complete their enlistment. Those arrest warrants for deserters never expire, and some Vietnam era deserters are still getting picked up. They get the same treatment as deserters of more recent vintage. ------------------------------------------ All emphasis mine - mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Erroll 80 #62 November 20, 2007 Mark, as I understand it, a typical tour of active duty for the US military is a year. Do you think it is worthwhile/ practical considering shorter tours - say six months? Does the US have the man power to be able to do this? During the war in Namibia/Angola we only did three month stints once, maybe twice a year. Granted, it was a low intensity conflict compared to Iraq or Afghanistan, but our desertion rates were very low. We did have many conscientuous objectors though. Another thing - do the people on active duty get financial reprieve of any kind? For example, we were allowed to freeze repayments (car, house, etc.) for the duration of the tour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #63 November 20, 2007 QuoteAlso since you love that list.. how many were in the reserves and National Guard.. when there was LITTLE chance of any kind of deployment I don't know where that perception comes from. I've met a whole lot of Guardsmen that deployed regularly during peacetime, mostly to fulfill missions in Central and South America.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #64 November 20, 2007 Quote This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? That's because it's all the President's fault. Don't you know that? The opposition poses in support of deserters, inflates the appearance of those that never served, as those that have, and have publicly declared that the war is lost, and that we have done no good what-so-ever. They can no longer see the forest for the trees.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #65 November 20, 2007 Well stated Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #66 November 20, 2007 Quote Quote This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? That's because it's all the President's fault. Where does your buck stop?----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lefty 0 #67 November 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? That's because it's all the President's fault. Where does your buck stop? With the people who deserted.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #68 November 20, 2007 Some people think there is always someone else to blame, for the personal actions of an individual Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #69 November 20, 2007 A term of enlistment is anywhere from 2 or 3 years to 6, depending on what one is enlisting for. Tours in a war zone can vary from 3 or 4 months to a year, depending on what one is doing. In addition to base pay, GIs in a war zone get hazard pay and a tax break. (Side note: An important thing the US military has learned and applied is that oufits [companies, battalions, even divisions] should rotate en masse as entire units, rather than as individuals [aka "replacements" as was common in WW2 and Vietnam]. This helps greatly with keeping the units cohesive, because everybody knows everybody else [fewer "FNGs"]). They're also volunteers to a man (and woman). No one is forced to serve. In sum, there are fewer reasons for troops to scarper than there have ever been. As for breaks on debts, etc., Gawain can clarify further, I'm sure. How about it, Max? mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #70 November 20, 2007 QuoteWhere does your buck stop? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With the people who deserted. Uh.. he deserted too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #71 November 21, 2007 QuoteA term of enlistment is anywhere from 2 or 3 years to 6, depending on what one is enlisting for. Tours in a war zone can vary from 3 or 4 months to a year, depending on what one is doing. In addition to base pay, GIs in a war zone get hazard pay and a tax break. (Side note: An important thing the US military has learned and applied is that oufits [companies, battalions, even divisions] should rotate en masse as entire units, rather than as individuals [aka "replacements" as was common in WW2 and Vietnam]. This helps greatly with keeping the units cohesive, because everybody knows everybody else [fewer "FNGs"]). They're also volunteers to a man (and woman). No one is forced to serve. In sum, there are fewer reasons for troops to scarper than there have ever been. As for breaks on debts, etc., Gawain can clarify further, I'm sure. How about it, Max? Most of the main "line" units rotate for 12-15 months. The smaller, more specialized units, Army Rangers, SF, etc, rotate more often, but for shorter tours. As for the Marines, I believe their rotations are about 7-9 months. It really depends on the service and the mission. The Sailors and Soldiers Relief Act allows debts to be tagged to a super-low interest rate. Guard and Reservists must be allowed to return to their jobs when they return. There are other items, but I can't remember them all.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #72 November 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhere does your buck stop? With the people who deserted. Uh.. he deserted too Really?! I keep hearing about this, but never see any proof. I know a whole news organization was pretty much discredited trying to carry a lie...surely you know something more...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #73 November 21, 2007 In your eyes he can do no wrong so I wonder why I even try with you... Blind Loyalty is not a good thing. http://www.awolbush.com/ http://www.bushwatch.com/awol.htm Bishop raises yet another issue about Bushs ANG tenure the cancellation after 1972 of the final year of his six-year obligation ostensibly to pursue a post-graduate business degree at Yale. That didnt sit well with the veteran pilot. When you accept a flying slot with the Air National Guard, youre obligated for six years, Bishop said. 'Even if you grant him credit for that missing year in Alabama which none of us remember, he still failed to serve his full commitment. Even graduate school, for which he was supposedly released, is attended during the week usually. It wouldnt have conflicted with drill weekends, whether he was in Connecticut or Massachusetts or wherever. There would have been no need for an early release.' Bishop paused. 'Maybe they do things differently in Texas. I dont want to malign the commander-inc-chief, but this is an issue of duty, honor country. You must have integrity.'" --Jackson Baker, The Memphis Flyer, 02.16.04 I guess they do...if yall got the money and the Daddy to gett you out of even a champagne quadron scot free after you desert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #74 November 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhere does your buck stop? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With the people who deserted. Uh.. he deserted too Where's the court-martial, then? Oh, yeah...there's NOT. Sorry, better luck next time.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #75 November 21, 2007 A young USAF officer named Buzz Aldrin was released from active duty to pursue his PhD at MIT, and that was long before he was even being considered for the space program. Years, in fact. Does this therefore make him a "deserter"? Being released from duty for academic purposes isn't all that unusual. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
akarunway 1 #60 November 20, 2007 QuoteHoiw many days of him being AWOL.. does it turn into DESERTION Nice way to "serve" the country.Donno. The records seem to have disappeared. Imagine that.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #61 November 20, 2007 QuoteThis is a good thing. I may not be for the continuation of the war but these guys signed up. Don't come to Canada to escape your commitments! http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=n111508A Supreme Court won't hear refugee appeals from two American army deserters November 15, 2007 - 10:08 THE CANADIAN PRESS OTTAWA - The Supreme Court of Canada will not hear the appeals of two U.S. army deserters who sought refugee status. The court has refused to hear the cases of Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey, who deserted after learning they were to be deployed to Iraq. They fled to Canada and asked for refugee status, claiming they opposed the war in Iraq as illegal and immoral. The Immigration and Refugee Board rejected their claims in 2005 and both the Federal Court and the Federal Court of Appeal refused to review the cases. As in usual in such cases, the high court gave no reasons for the decision. From the Strategy Page: ----------------------------------------------------------- Deserters As A Cost Of Doing Business November 19, 2007: The desertion rate for the U.S. Army has been going up. There were 42 percent more in 2007, than the year before. In fiscal 2007 (that ended on September 30th), the army lost nine soldiers per thousand to desertion. That's twice as many soldiers as were lost to combat (dead and seriously wounded). Desertion is the largest cause of losses in the military, larger than combat, and non-combat, deaths and serious (resulting in medical discharge) accident injuries. A deserter is anyone on active duty that is away from their unit, without permission, for more than 30 days. Actually, the desertion rate is about the same as it was before the Iraq invasion. There were 4,698 deserters in 2007, 3,301 in 2006, 2,543 in 2005, 2,357 in 2004, 2,771 in 2003, 4,483 in 2002, 4,597 in 2001, 3,949 in 2000 and 2,966 in 1999. The decline in desertions after 2002 was mainly the result of the army to screen more carefully for adaptation (to military life) problems. But since 2003, the army has made many changes in its recruiting, so that now, about 20 percent of the recruits are people who would not be accepted before 2003. But new screening and training methods have turned nearly all of those "unacceptable" recruits into effective soldiers. But there has been additional costs, in terms of more expensive training, and higher dropout rates. For the army, a deserter is basically a dropout, a recruit that didn't work out. The draft ended in 1972, and during the Vietnam war, there were years where the desertion rate was more than three times what it is now. Since then, only volunteers are accepted, and the main problem is people do have problems adapting to military life. The current war has meant that about 60 percent of army personnel will end up in a combat zone. That tends to be a high stress situation for some, and that often results in desertion. Another aspect of desertion is that, if you walk away, the army won't come after you. It's not worth the effort. Of course, deserters are cut off from veterans benefits (a substantial part of the overall compensation package), and your name is put on the national fugitives list. If you encounter the law and they run your name past this list, you will be arrested for desertion. But even with that, only five percent of current deserters are court martialed and officially thrown out of the army each year. Back in the 1990s, only about two percent of deserters were caught. But since September 11, 2001, national criminal databases have gotten more thorough, and heavily used. So more deserters are being found. When a deserter is caught, he (it's usually a he) is turned over to military police. The deserter is then returned to their unit, where the punishment ranges from loss of rank and dishonorable discharge, to that, plus up to five years in prison. The most common punishments are at the low end, although in the last few years, there have been more cases of deserters being given another chance to complete their enlistment. Those arrest warrants for deserters never expire, and some Vietnam era deserters are still getting picked up. They get the same treatment as deserters of more recent vintage. ------------------------------------------ All emphasis mine - mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #62 November 20, 2007 Mark, as I understand it, a typical tour of active duty for the US military is a year. Do you think it is worthwhile/ practical considering shorter tours - say six months? Does the US have the man power to be able to do this? During the war in Namibia/Angola we only did three month stints once, maybe twice a year. Granted, it was a low intensity conflict compared to Iraq or Afghanistan, but our desertion rates were very low. We did have many conscientuous objectors though. Another thing - do the people on active duty get financial reprieve of any kind? For example, we were allowed to freeze repayments (car, house, etc.) for the duration of the tour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #63 November 20, 2007 QuoteAlso since you love that list.. how many were in the reserves and National Guard.. when there was LITTLE chance of any kind of deployment I don't know where that perception comes from. I've met a whole lot of Guardsmen that deployed regularly during peacetime, mostly to fulfill missions in Central and South America.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #64 November 20, 2007 Quote This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? That's because it's all the President's fault. Don't you know that? The opposition poses in support of deserters, inflates the appearance of those that never served, as those that have, and have publicly declared that the war is lost, and that we have done no good what-so-ever. They can no longer see the forest for the trees.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #65 November 20, 2007 Well stated Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #66 November 20, 2007 Quote Quote This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? That's because it's all the President's fault. Where does your buck stop?----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #67 November 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote This thread was supposed to be about individuals who don't fullfill their committments but reading the last page and a half I have gotten completely lost, WTF? That's because it's all the President's fault. Where does your buck stop? With the people who deserted.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #68 November 20, 2007 Some people think there is always someone else to blame, for the personal actions of an individual Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #69 November 20, 2007 A term of enlistment is anywhere from 2 or 3 years to 6, depending on what one is enlisting for. Tours in a war zone can vary from 3 or 4 months to a year, depending on what one is doing. In addition to base pay, GIs in a war zone get hazard pay and a tax break. (Side note: An important thing the US military has learned and applied is that oufits [companies, battalions, even divisions] should rotate en masse as entire units, rather than as individuals [aka "replacements" as was common in WW2 and Vietnam]. This helps greatly with keeping the units cohesive, because everybody knows everybody else [fewer "FNGs"]). They're also volunteers to a man (and woman). No one is forced to serve. In sum, there are fewer reasons for troops to scarper than there have ever been. As for breaks on debts, etc., Gawain can clarify further, I'm sure. How about it, Max? mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #70 November 20, 2007 QuoteWhere does your buck stop? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With the people who deserted. Uh.. he deserted too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #71 November 21, 2007 QuoteA term of enlistment is anywhere from 2 or 3 years to 6, depending on what one is enlisting for. Tours in a war zone can vary from 3 or 4 months to a year, depending on what one is doing. In addition to base pay, GIs in a war zone get hazard pay and a tax break. (Side note: An important thing the US military has learned and applied is that oufits [companies, battalions, even divisions] should rotate en masse as entire units, rather than as individuals [aka "replacements" as was common in WW2 and Vietnam]. This helps greatly with keeping the units cohesive, because everybody knows everybody else [fewer "FNGs"]). They're also volunteers to a man (and woman). No one is forced to serve. In sum, there are fewer reasons for troops to scarper than there have ever been. As for breaks on debts, etc., Gawain can clarify further, I'm sure. How about it, Max? Most of the main "line" units rotate for 12-15 months. The smaller, more specialized units, Army Rangers, SF, etc, rotate more often, but for shorter tours. As for the Marines, I believe their rotations are about 7-9 months. It really depends on the service and the mission. The Sailors and Soldiers Relief Act allows debts to be tagged to a super-low interest rate. Guard and Reservists must be allowed to return to their jobs when they return. There are other items, but I can't remember them all.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #72 November 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhere does your buck stop? With the people who deserted. Uh.. he deserted too Really?! I keep hearing about this, but never see any proof. I know a whole news organization was pretty much discredited trying to carry a lie...surely you know something more...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #73 November 21, 2007 In your eyes he can do no wrong so I wonder why I even try with you... Blind Loyalty is not a good thing. http://www.awolbush.com/ http://www.bushwatch.com/awol.htm Bishop raises yet another issue about Bushs ANG tenure the cancellation after 1972 of the final year of his six-year obligation ostensibly to pursue a post-graduate business degree at Yale. That didnt sit well with the veteran pilot. When you accept a flying slot with the Air National Guard, youre obligated for six years, Bishop said. 'Even if you grant him credit for that missing year in Alabama which none of us remember, he still failed to serve his full commitment. Even graduate school, for which he was supposedly released, is attended during the week usually. It wouldnt have conflicted with drill weekends, whether he was in Connecticut or Massachusetts or wherever. There would have been no need for an early release.' Bishop paused. 'Maybe they do things differently in Texas. I dont want to malign the commander-inc-chief, but this is an issue of duty, honor country. You must have integrity.'" --Jackson Baker, The Memphis Flyer, 02.16.04 I guess they do...if yall got the money and the Daddy to gett you out of even a champagne quadron scot free after you desert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #74 November 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhere does your buck stop? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With the people who deserted. Uh.. he deserted too Where's the court-martial, then? Oh, yeah...there's NOT. Sorry, better luck next time.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #75 November 21, 2007 A young USAF officer named Buzz Aldrin was released from active duty to pursue his PhD at MIT, and that was long before he was even being considered for the space program. Years, in fact. Does this therefore make him a "deserter"? Being released from duty for academic purposes isn't all that unusual. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
