Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment?

[marks2065 0]

sorry i meant the bush's since this is a continuation of bush #1's war - i don't know if you have talked to any people that have served in iraq but i have and they all agree with bush and his policies and get "pissed at the pussies that cry about the war" (an actual quote from a GI ) most people wanted the war but when things got tough the weak minded started running. war isn't pleasant nor wanted but sometimes it is needed and i am glad that our troops and president had the guts to go defend our country and will support them till they see it through to the end. we have seen how far talk has gotten in other ares of the world (nowhere) and at least the people of iraq are getting services we take for granted like power, running water, and a much better legal and government systems. things are better in iraq now than in the last 20 years of sadam's rule and getting better every day. to bad the news won't show the good things about what is going on over there because the ratings would drop . people here want to see bad things on the news so that is what they show to get ratings up. news stations like wgn have tried to put positive things on but canceled those kind of news stories when the ratings droped (as per wgn reporter) the people need all the facts to make good judgements and the only thing they get is a one sided story from the news or a democrat trying to get elected so before you make judgements you need to investigate the other end so you can see the good things that are happening

[billvon 3,116]

>i don't know if you have talked to any people that have served in iraq
>but i have and they all agree with bush and his policies and get "pissed at
>the pussies that cry about the war"

Perhaps you have spoken to soldiers who were in a different Iraq than the ones I've spoken to served in. Indeed, I once heard a diatribe from a recently returned soldier against the "couch warriors" who didn't know jack shit about war, but wanted one anyway. He was quite eloquent. (That may have been due to the beer; I figured I owed him a few rounds.)

[SpeedRacer 1]

hmmm.

if it's just people whining because the war is long & difficult, then explain why there are so many of those who objected to the war in Iraq but SUPPORTED the war against Alquaeda/Taliban in Afghanistan?

Speed Racer
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[marks2065 0]

the majority was in favor of the war in iraq now the majority is is not in favor of the war. what did those that changed their mind think was going to happen ? the U.S. would go over and say stop and they would go ok and all would be fine? everybody is afraid to get their hands dirty nowdays. as someone once said " the pusification of the US is almost complete

[Amazon 7]

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But nowadays I'm pretty sure that even if God sky typed his support for a third term over the White House that Bush would pass. He wants out so someone else can clean up this mess, or more likely, take the blame for it.

But his cronies that helped put him there and who have benefited from a new level of greed in the past 7 years never seen in this country before....do not want to leave....and have too much to lose by any prosecutions or facts coming out.. hence the supposed separation of powers bullshit to prevent them from testifying.... the same crap that Nixons lawyers tried to get away with with the coverups in HIS administration and the crap that REYguns people tried to get awy with when Iran Contra came to light... why is it the same people who claim to love their country and the Constitution.. try their damndest so subvert that constitution over and over.

[billvon 3,116]

> the majority was in favor of the war in iraq now the majority is is not
> in favor of the war.

Depends on the poll. In polls that said "are you in favor of military action, yes/no?" it was 55 to 60% for. However, in polls that broke it down to:

1) invade no matter what
2) allow inspectors time to complete inspections, then decide
3) do not invade no matter what

the first option got consistently low scores (on the order of 10%.)

So then the president didn't wait, invaded anyway - and was surprised to see poll numbers drop. Wasn't much of a surprise to me.

[quade 4]

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why is it the same people who claim to love their country and the Constitution.. try their damndest so subvert that constitution over and over.

Same reason people rob banks . . . that's where the money is.

Dwight D wasn't an idiot ya know.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

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why is it the same people who claim to love their country and the Constitution.. try their damndest so subvert that constitution over and over.

Same reason people rob banks . . . that's where the money is.

Dwight D wasn't an idiot ya know.

Actually, I would tend to disagree. The natural human response is to push limits. Rather than say, "I can't do X" they say, "Well, I MAY be able to do 'x'"

A Constitutional Law casebook is pretty fascinatiing! You can see that presidents, congress, etc., push and push until the court smacks them down. It's just the way things have been and will continue to be.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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the majority was in favor of the war in iraq now the majority is is not in favor of the war. what did those that changed their mind think was going to happen ?

The majority rightly saw Saddam Hussein as a threat to the US and our interests and wanted him removed. That was accomplished early on, at which point I advocated departure. Sure another asshole might replace him, but he'd be an asshole who can remember what happened to the last guy before he thinks about funding suicide bombers in Israel, or violating his terms of surrender.

The nation building project is the bit that quite a few either didn't want, didn't want that much, or had no idea as to the difficulty of accomplishing it.

[Lucky... 0]

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sorry i meant the bush's since this is a continuation of bush #1's war - i don't know if you have talked to any people that have served in iraq but i have and they all agree with bush and his policies and get "pissed at the pussies that cry about the war" (an actual quote from a GI ) most people wanted the war but when things got tough the weak minded started running. war isn't pleasant nor wanted but sometimes it is needed and i am glad that our troops and president had the guts to go defend our country and will support them till they see it through to the end. we have seen how far talk has gotten in other ares of the world (nowhere) and at least the people of iraq are getting services we take for granted like power, running water, and a much better legal and government systems. things are better in iraq now than in the last 20 years of sadam's rule and getting better every day. to bad the news won't show the good things about what is going on over there because the ratings would drop . people here want to see bad things on the news so that is what they show to get ratings up. news stations like wgn have tried to put positive things on but canceled those kind of news stories when the ratings droped (as per wgn reporter) the people need all the facts to make good judgements and the only thing they get is a one sided story from the news or a democrat trying to get elected so before you make judgements you need to investigate the other end so you can see the good things that are happening

I work with a an Air Force 20-year lifer who had both his sons there, talked to him last March and he was nervous about his kids being there, but was a neo-con thru and thru. Then in May his youngest was killed in last May's Memorial Day Massacre. He took months off work and came back a bit different. At first he seemed to despise me for my opinoons of the war, but now he seems to be comming around and as we were all working, someone brought up the subject of the war and I very gracefully asked him what he thought of the war in general. He replied that we have been there too long. I interpret that mean that if this shit had ended a few months earlier his kid would be here.

Now on to current events. His other kid wanted to come home and teach troops stateside, his wartime knwoldege would be priceless when teaching new medics about the war and how to cope. But the fucked up military was pissed that he forced their hand by way of the 1-son exception from war, so they said Iraq or out. Fuck the military maggots, now some pos butter bar is gonna try to teach that BS from a book and endanger the lives of the new troops. WHat a piece of shit the military operations are. BTW, the killed kid was on his 2nd or 3rd tour, nit sure about the kid who came home.

Anyway, the poor guy (father) at work is a lot more descent to me and I think, although he would never admit it, but he agrees with my philosophy about the war.

So if ya stick yer head in the sand and talk to select people you can find only so-called true patriots.

[Lucky... 0]

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the majority was in favor of the war in iraq now the majority is is not in favor of the war. what did those that changed their mind think was going to happen ? the U.S. would go over and say stop and they would go ok and all would be fine? everybody is afraid to get their hands dirty nowdays. as someone once said " the pusification of the US is almost complete

Killing innocent people = manly says marks2065

I don't think the majority were for it, as well, those who were are allowed to change their mind as various events play out. If I were an idiot I would pass along that pussification remark to the father of the dead kid. You're brilliant.

[Lucky... 0]

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why is it the same people who claim to love their country and the Constitution.. try their damndest so subvert that constitution over and over.

Same reason people rob banks . . . that's where the money is.

Dwight D wasn't an idiot ya know.

A Constitutional Law casebook is pretty fascinatiing! You can see that presidents, congress, etc., push and push until the court smacks them down. It's just the way things have been and will continue to be.

Totally agree, difference is that some presidents push for the good of the people, some push for the good of corporations and some push in skewed directions. A president that pushes for the people is my guy, however I know SOME people who want their pres to defend corps.

Oddly enough Dwight appointed Earl Warren, but he cringed when Warren turned Liberal on him. Even if by mistake, Eisenhower was one of the best recent presidents. Appointed Warren, lowered debt, got us out of Korea - the neo-cons need to go back to those days.

[idrankwhat 0]

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sorry i meant the bush's since this is a continuation of bush #1's war - i don't know if you have talked to any people that have served in iraq but i have and they all agree with bush and his policies and get "pissed at the pussies that cry about the war" (an actual quote from a GI ) most people wanted the war but when things got tough the weak minded started running. war isn't pleasant nor wanted but sometimes it is needed and i am glad that our troops and president had the guts to go defend our country and will support them till they see it through to the end. we have seen how far talk has gotten in other ares of the world (nowhere) and at least the people of iraq are getting services we take for granted like power, running water, and a much better legal and government systems. things are better in iraq now than in the last 20 years of sadam's rule and getting better every day. to bad the news won't show the good things about what is going on over there because the ratings would drop . people here want to see bad things on the news so that is what they show to get ratings up. news stations like wgn have tried to put positive things on but canceled those kind of news stories when the ratings droped (as per wgn reporter) the people need all the facts to make good judgements and the only thing they get is a one sided story from the news or a democrat trying to get elected so before you make judgements you need to investigate the other end so you can see the good things that are happening

Maybe I'm getting old and grumpy but damn, quit skimping on the punctuation and coherent sentence structure. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're spouting regurgitated talking points and/or simply opinion backed opinion. Find something specific to back up your assertions otherwise you're going to get inundated with a well documented recent history lesson that the deniers continue to deny.
(Ok, be nice Matt, give 'em a chance)
Ok. Let's start with Iraq and "president had the guts to defend our country". What do you mean by that?

[Amazon 7]

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Ok. Let's start with Iraq and "president had the guts to defend our country". What do you mean by that?

Uh think he has the guts and blood of about 4000 young Americans all over him... cause it sure as hell aint gonna be anyone there from the BUSH family.


No guts.. no gory

[kallend 2,148]

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the majority was in favor of the war in iraq now the majority is is not in favor of the war. what did those that changed their mind think was going to happen ? the U.S. would go over and say stop and they would go ok and all would be fine? everybody is afraid to get their hands dirty nowdays. as someone once said " the pusification of the US is almost complete

You only have to read SC threads from 2002-2003 to see that those strongly in favor of the war completely swallowed all of Bush's falsehoods about WMDs etc.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

Gee would it be considered an attack on other posters if we started a thread of all the rosy prognostications about how the war was going to go that they posted???

I was against this fiasco then.. just as I am now.

[marks2065 0]

bush, even knowing the problems he would face and the posibility of not getting reelected like his dad, still went forward with what he thought was the right thing to do. we elected him to run this country and he has done that to the best of his ability acording to his beliefs and morals. if a majority of the country didn't agree with how he was doing things they should not have reelected him. the president probably has the toughest job in the country with every person having different thoughts of what is good and bad. i get pissed when i see all the people jump off the band wagon whenever things get hard or unpleasant. alot of people in this country fold under a little pressure and won't finish a difficult task. we as a country elected bush, backed him in the war, and alot ran out on him when things got a little unpleasant. if people want to not agree with bush that's fine, that is your right as an american. but we elected him, backed him to go to war and should continue to support him and give him the tolls needed to finish the job to the end. instead of bashing the president lets give him ideas and tools to improve and finish what is started. alot of people in iraq are mad at the US for leaving before the job was done in the first war. we backed out under U.N. and local pressure and alot of iraq's local leaders were slaughtered by sadam. The people of iraq don't trust the US because of this and they wait for us to abandon them again. lets not show that we are quitters a second time

[rehmwa 2]

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>I once heard a diatribe from a recently returned soldier against the "couch warriors" who didn't know jack shit about war, but wanted one anyway. He was quite eloquent. (That may have been due to the beer; I figured I owed him a few rounds.)

I wonder if maybe his position rotates depending on who's buying......

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,148]

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but we elected him, backed him to go to war and should continue to support him

Why? The grounds on which he led us to war turned out to be a tissue of lies untruths. He fed us cherry picked intel to support his position and withheld intel to the contrary. He and his cronies totally mismanaged the aftermath of the invasion. He deserves nothing but contempt.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

it is never good to see death. the people of our military don't want it anymore than we want it. that being said the troops know what may happen when they go to war and have still willingly volunteered for the job and go do their job till it is done. makes you feel kinda sad that they paid the ultimate price over there and the people that live under the freedom they provided can't finish the easy job here becuase they run away from the issue because they can't stomache what they started.

[marks2065 0]

alot of the GI's that are killed is because of the hold fire until given the ok. the troops need to be able to fire first and not wait until shot at before reacting. i apreciate the service his family gave to this country and hope for the best for his family. we are free to live our lives because of sacrifices like this and nothing we say or do can leason what this family must feel, but i know none of them would want all their hard work and sacrifice to be in vein by leaving the job undone and have things go back to how it was before the war.

[marks2065 0]

just because things got hard doesn't mean you run and hide. is completing something you started that hard for americans to do anymore? are we just a bunch of quitters in this country?

[kallend 2,148]

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it is never good to see death. the people of our military don't want it anymore than we want it. that being said the troops know what may happen when they go to war and have still willingly volunteered for the job and go do their job till it is done. makes you feel kinda sad that they paid the ultimate price over there and the people that live under the freedom they provided can't finish the easy job here becuase they run away from the issue because they can't stomache what they started.

Mark, the people didn't start the war, the CinC did. The people were led to war. Had the people had full access to the conflicting intelligence (on WMDs) that we now know to have existed pre-war, the support for the war would have been minimal. Bush rushed into the war before UNSCOM could complete its work, probably because he knew UNSCOM would not support his claims (which we now know were bogus).

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[masterblaster72 0]

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just because things got hard doesn't mean you run and hide. is completing something you started that hard for americans to do anymore? are we just a bunch of quitters in this country?

Maybe we wouldn't have to say "things got hard" if the president listened to generals from the start and put in the recommended number of troops.

How do you feel about his obstinateness toward the generals regarding troop numbers? Do you think he handled that part well?

To shun what (many) generals recommend as far as troop numbers go is an act of *gross* incompetence, not to mention arrogance.

If you're going to do something, do it right, or don't do it at all.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[marks2065 0]

sadam had 10 years between wars. i guess another 10 years of talk so he could build his military further could have been reasonable. come on people WAKE UP, sadam did have wmd's and did present a problem to the world and the frech and sioviets were helping him build his military back up to strength. we know he had wmd's because we gave them to him which he used against his own people and iran. just because we didn't find them doesn't mean anything. the gi's that went in first saw alot of stuff that made them feel they did the right thing by going into iraq.